Subject: Late Antiquity Newsletter

From: Ralph Mathisen <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 21:11:30 EDT

N.B. This innaugural issue of the *Late Antiquity Newsletter* is be-
ing sent not only to those who specifically requested it, but also
to a number of individuals who in the past have indicated an inter-
est in matters Late Antique and Byzantine.  "LAN" is not a discus-
sion list, and it will be distributed several times yearly only.  If
you did not specifically request "LAN", you will not receive any
further issues, but you can remain on the distribution list by send-
ing a message to [email-masked].  And anyone who does not
wish to receive any further issues of "LAN" may do so by sending a
message to that effect to the same address.
N.B. "LAN" is distributed by LISTSERV under the name LTANTSOC, in
case any of you were wondering just what the connection of LTANTSOC
was to the Late Antiquity Newsletter.

====================================================================

                               L A N

                   THE LATE ANTIQUITY NEWSLETTER

                           Volume 1 no.1

                             June, 1996

                         Table of Contents

*Introductory Notes*

*Conference Announcements*

*Book Announcements*

*Journal Announcements*

*Job Openings*

*Computer Notes:*

   "Hagiomail"

   "Late Antiquity on the Internet"
    Michael DiMaio

   "Recapitulation,  Repetition,  Digression,  and  Getting  to  the
    Point: A Discussion of the Murder of Hypatia and Other Matters"
    Ralph Mathisen

====================================================================

Publication information:

The Late Antiquity Newsletter 1.1 (June, 1996)

"LAN"  is published several times a year under the auspices  of  the
Society for Late Antiquity, which consists of those in attendance at
the  bi-annual Late Antiquity conferences.  It is  distributed  over
the  Internet using a distribution list named LTANTSOC, which  oper-
ates using LISTSERV software.

The following kinds of contributions are solicited: announcements of
conferences,  journals, books, WEB sites (all with or  without  sum-
maries  of contents), job openings,  collaborative/interdisciplinary
projects, work in progress, and requests for assistance.  Also, suc-
cinct notices of a scholarly nature that might be too brief for pub-
lication in more traditional scholarly journals.

Editor:  Ralph  W. Mathisen, Department of  History,  University  of

South Carolina, Columbia, S.C. 29208, U.S.A.
EMAIL:  [email-masked].   FAX: 803-777-4494

Copyright (1996) The Society for Late Antiquity

N.B.  To allow for easier electronic navigation, the different  sec-
tions  are  separated by a row of "============" and  the  different
entries of each section by a row of "------------".  Italics (under-
scores) are represented by asterisks.

====================================================================

                         INTRODUCTORY NOTES

This  newsletter is an outgrowth of the "Shifting Frontiers in  Late
Antiquity"  Conference  held at the University of Kansas  in  March,
1995.  At that time, the participants felt it would be worthwhile to
continue  holding  Late Antiquity conferences  (preferably  bi-annu-
ally), to circulate a Late Antiquity Newsletter, to continue to sup-
port  the Late Antiquity discussion list (LT-ANTIQ) and to create  a
Society  for Late Antiquity that would consist of those  present  at
the conferences and which would coordinate these functions.

The  proceedings of the first Interdisciplinary Late Antiquity  Con-
ference have just been published (*Shifting Frontiers in Late Antiq-
uity*, R. Mathisen and H. Sivan eds. [Variorum, 1996]), and the sec-
ond  conference will be held in March of 1997 at the  University  of
South  Carolina (see announcement below).  LT-ANTIQ now has been  in
operation  since  October, 1994, and now has over  800  subscribers.
And  this is the first issue of the *Late Antiquity Newsletter*,  or
"*LAN*"  -- an appropriate acronym for a newsletter circulated  over
the Internet!

"*LAN*"  is intended to "get the news out" about current events  re-
lating to Late Antiquity, and will serve as a more structured corol-
lary  to  LT-ANTIQ.  It will provide announcements  of  conferences,
books and journals, and job openings.  Readers of the newsletter are
encouraged to forward information on all these topics.  It also will
include  discussions  of computer-related topics, and  summaries  of
some of the topics that have been discussed on LT-ANTIQ.

It  will be seen below that the electronic format of "LAN" makes  it
possible to include lengthy material -- such as the complete text of
a discussion of the murder of Hypatia that took place on LT-ANTIQ --
that  would very likely not be considered "publishable"  in  conven-
tional  print  media.  It also is a very straightforward  matter  to
collect, collate, and re-circulate information that has appeared  on
other internet venues.

A number of subscribers asked about the subscription fee.  There  is
none.  Please feel free to make copies of this newslatter (electron-
ic or hard-copy) and pass it on to interested colleagues or to  your
library  acquisitions  department.  The next issue is slated  to  be
distributed in September, 1996.

Although  "*LAN*" is distributed using LISTSERV software  (the  same
software  that operates discussion lists), please note that  "*LAN*"
is  not a discussion list itself (even if the "Welcome Notice"  sent
by the LISTSERV software might lead one to think differently!).  Any
messages  sent to LTANTSOC, the email address for "*LAN*",  will  be
delivered  only to Ralph Mathisen, the distribution list owner,  and
will not go to the entire distribution list.

To subscribe to the "*Late Antiquity Newsletter*" please send a note
to  [email-masked]  asking to be put  on  the  distribution
list.  Comments and suggestions regarding the format and content  of
"*LAN*" also can be sent to the same address.

To subscribe to LT-ANTIQ, the Late Antiquity discussion list, please
send a message consisting only of the words:
SUBSCRIBE LT-ANTIQ first-name last-name
to [email-masked].

====================================================================

                            CONFERENCES

--------------------------------------------------------------------

           AMERICAN NUMISMATIC ASSOCIATION SUMMER SEMINAR

The  American Numismatic Association is offering several courses  in
ancient  numismatics at the ANA Summer Seminar that will take  place
July  13-19.  Robert Hoge is teaching a course on Ancient  Numismat-
ics; Kerry Wetterstrohm and David Vaggi are joining forces to  teach
a course on Ancient Greek Coins, and I will be teaching a course  on
Byzantine Numismatics.  More information about these courses and the
ANA Summer Seminars can be obtained from the ANA at:  [email-masked].
They also have a website at, I believe: http://www.money.org
--Chris Connell

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                 "AUGUSTIN PREDICATEUR A LA LUMIERE

                 DES SERMONS DECOUVERTS A MAYENCE"

                       (5-7 septembre 1996)

A  conference on the recently discovered Mainz sermons of  Augustine
will  be held at Chantilly, outside Paris, September 5-7, 1996.   It
is organized by Profs. G. Madec, F. Dolbeau, J.-Cl. Fredouille,  Cl.
Lepelley and J. Scheid, who also will speak.  Other speakers include
Profs. N. Duval, Banniard, Y.M. Duval, Dulaey, Rebillard, Pepin  and
a  few others, as well as, in English, Profs. R.A. Markus, H.  Chad-
wick,  R. Dodaro, S.A. Kennell, P. Garnsey, and, in  German,  Profs.
Klockener, Muller, Klein, and Primmer.

There will be four sessions:
1) Predication, liturgie, archeologie
2) Pastorale, Doctrine, Controverse
3) Discussions avec les paiens
4) Chronologie et liens avec l'actualite

It should be followed by a publication of the sermons with  transla-
tion and comments.

Location: "Les Fontaines"
Route de Gouvieux BP 219-60631
Chantilly Cedex
Tel: 44 57 24 60

Information:
Mme Claudine Croyere
Institut des Etudes Augustiniennes
3, rue de l'Abbaye
75006 Paris
tel: 43 54 80 25.

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                    THE TENTH CONFERENCE OF THE

            AUSTRALIAN ASSOCIATION FOR BYZANTINE STUDIES

                         (25-27 April 1997)

The conference will be held at the Australian National University in
Canberra, and the  theme is "'Sailing to Byzantium': Approaches  and
Gauls."  While nautical subjects, or a nautical twist, would be very
appropriate, the theme also may be treated allegorically.   Synopses
of  papers will be published in the *Byzantine Studies in  Australia
Newsletter*.   Special conference guest will be Nancy Sevcenko,  au-
thor of *The Life of St Nicholas in Byzantine Art* (1982) and  asso-
ciate editor of the *Oxford Dicitonary of Byzantium* (1991).

For further information, and to receive the second circular and reg-
istration form, contact:

Dr Ann Moffatt
Art History Department, Australian National University
Canbera, ACT 0200, AUSTRALIA
Phone: (61) 6-249.2901 (W), 6-247.4783 (H)
FAX: (61) 6-249.2705,  EMAIL [email-masked]

--------------------------------------------------------------------

                XVe CENTENAIRE DU BAPTEME DE CLOVIS

           COLLOQUE INTER UNIVERSITAIRE ET INTERNATIONAL

                       (19-25 septembre 1996)

Organized by Prof. Michel Rouche, Universite de Paris Sorbonne, this
conference will bring together over 100 speakers discussing the sig-
nificance of the activities and reign of Clovis.  Pope John Paul  II
is also expected to attend.

Speakers on contemporary topics include:

A. Chauvot, B. Young, A. Bredero, R. Brulet. E. Prinz, M. Biarne, A.
Ferreiro,  C. Leonardi, F. Monfrin, C. Cantino-Wataghin, I.  Ionita,
L. Garcia-Moreno, P. Regerat, P. O'Rian, N. Tonnerre, J. Jarnut,  E.
Vanneufville, K. Schaferdiek, G. Scheibelreiter, J. Nelson, J.  Pou-
lin, L. Pietri, R. Mathisen, J. Heuclin, M. Saxer, A. Angenendt,  J.
Guyon, B. Fauvarque, P. Gabet, E. Nortier, L. Verlypse, P. Perin, F.
Staab,  R. Noel, L. Lotter, M. Heinzelmann, G. Arnldi, H. Siems,  L.
Cracco, B. Bachrach, O. Guillot, J.-P. Martin, D. Claude, S.  Prico-
co,  C. Morrison, K. Carr, J. Lusse, M. Chedeville, D.  Scharer,  B.
Basdevant, R. Le Jan, H. Le Bourdelles.

An  equal number will speak on "L'evenement et son echo du VIIIe  au
XXe siecle"

Information from:
Association Memoire du Bapteme de Clovis
1, place du Cardinal Lucon
51100 Reims
Phone: (011 33) 26 88 99 61,
Fax:   (011 33) 26 88 99 65.

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       THE TWENTY SECOND ANNUAL BYZANTINE STUDIES CONFERENCE

                        (24-27 October 1996)

The  Twenty-Second Annual Byzantine Studies Conference will be  held
at  the  University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill  from  Thursday
evening,  October  24, through Sunday early afternoon,  October  27,
1996.   The conference is the annual forum for the presentation  and
discussion  of  papers on every aspect of Byzantine studies  and  is
open to all, regardless of nationality and academic status.

Participants should note that the BSC is funded only by registration
fees and dues, which must be paid by all participants, and that  the
Conference  has no funding to defray the costs of travel or  lodging
for  participants.  Graduate Students may be eligible for  a  travel
subsidy  and should declare their status when submitting  their  ab-
stracts.

Current  officers of the Byzantine Studies Conference are  Mary-Lyon
Dolezal (Univ. of Oregon), President; Ralph W. Mathisen (Univ. of S.
Carolina), Vice President; Alice-Mary Talbot (Dumbarton Oaks), Trea-
surer; Alice Christ (Univ. of Kentucky), Secretary.

Questions  concerning local arrangements in Chapel Hill may  be  di-
rected to the Local Arrangements Committee:

Carolyn L. Connor, Chair
Email [email-masked] ,
Department of Classics, CB#3145,
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill,
Chapel Hill NC 27599-3145
tel. 919-962-7191),

Jaroslav Folda
Department of Art, CB#3405,
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill,
Chapel Hill, NC 27599-3405
tel. 919-962-3036)
tel. 919-962-3036)

Dorothy Verkerk,
Department of Art, CB#3405
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill,
Chapel Hill NC 27599--3405;
tel. 919-962-0729

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                  THE FIRST BIRMINGHAM COLLOQUIUM

           ON THE TEXTUAL CRITICISM OF THE NEW TESTAMENT

                         (14-17 April 1997)

The first Birmingham Colloquium on the Textual Criticism of the  New
Testament  will be held at Chamberlain Hall, The University of  Bir-
mingham, from 14 to 17 April 1997.

The  meeting  will be under the presidency of J.  Neville  Birdsall,
Emeritus  Professor  of New Testament and Textual Criticism  in  the
university.  His address will be on the theme 'Language and Text  of
Homer and of the New Testament; Analogies and Influences in  Ancient
and Modern Times'.  The other main speakers will be Professor  Larry
W. Hurtado, who has been appointed to the chair of New Testament  in
Edinburgh, Jeff Childers, who has recently completed a study of  the
Syriac versions of John Chrysostom, and Dr David Taylor, of Birming-
ham University, who will speak on New Testament citations in  Syriac
patristic commentaries.

There  will also be seminars.  Suggestions for themes  are  invited.
Invitations  to  lead sessions will be made once the  subjects  have
been determined.

a  'Work in Progress' session, at which colloquium members  will  be
invited to describe any current projects in which they are involved.

Short papers

Offers  of papers on any aspect of the discipline are invited.   The
short  papers will each be allotted 30 minutes, of which 10 will  be
available for questions and discussion.

Applications  to read a short paper and seminar proposals should  be
sent  by October 31, and should include a brief (150-300 word)  sum-
mary of it.

The cost will be approximately 140 pounds, including board and lodg-
ing.

Requests  for Registration Forms, suggestions for seminars, and  ap-
plications to give a short paper should be sent to:
Birmingham Colloquium on the Textual Criticism of the New Testament
Dept of Theology
University of Birmingham
Edgbaston
Birmingham B15 2TT
U.K.

Tel. 0121-414 5666
Fax 0121-414 6866
E-Mail [email-masked]
[email-masked]

D.C. PARKER & D.G.K. TAYLOR
DEPT OF THEOLOGY
UNIVERSITY OF BIRMINGHAM

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          REGIONALISM IN HELLENISTIC AND ROMAN ASIA MINOR

                        (22-24 August 1997)

A  small research conference concerning Regionalism  in  Hellenistic
and Roman Asia Minor is being planned to be held at Trinity College,
Hartford, CT, on Friday 22nd-Sunday 24th August, 1997.  Participants
will  be  asked to explore the mechanisms that create  and  maintain
regional cohesion in Hellenistic and Roman Asia Minor.

For  further  information, contact the organizers: Gary  Reger,  Box
702550,    Trinity   College,   Hartford   CT   06106,   email    at
[email-masked], telephone 860-297-2393; or Hugh Elton,
History  and  Classics  Departments, Trinity  College,  Hartford  CT
06106,  email  at [email-masked],  telephone  860-297-
2230.  Fax for both: 860-297-5111.

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            SETTIMANA DI STUDI SULL'ETA' ROMANOBARBARICA

* Every year in Tivoli (Italy, near Rome), the last week of October:
Settimana  di studi sull'eta' romanobarbarica.  Alle  origini  della
cultura europea (a week dedicated, in 1994, to the V cent.; in  1995
to VI century; in 1997 to VII cent.; and so on).

* Every year, 3 days of January  are dedicated to the romano-barbar-
ian age, by the Dottorato di Ricerca in Cultura dell'eta' romanobar-
barica, Universita' di Macerata, Italy

Information: dott. Maria Luisa Angrisani,
Dipartimento di Filologia latina e greca,
Universita' "La Sapienza" di Roma,
Piazzale Aldo Moro 5,
00100 Roma (Italy)

Annalisa Bracciotti
Universite di Udine
E-Mail   [email-masked]
Date: Sun, 16 Jun 1996 16:07:24 +0100 (MET)
From: [email-masked] (Annalisa Bracciotti)

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                      SHIFTING FRONTIERS II:

      THE TRANSFORMATION OF LAW AND SOCIETY IN LATE ANTIQUITY

                         (13-16 March 1997)

                           Sponsored by
     The Department of History and the College of Liberal Arts
                   (University of South Carolina)
                              and the
                     Society for Late Antiquity

Nearly  every student of Late Antiquity at one time or  another  has
encountered "the law," be it a ruling by a Roman emperor, a canon of
a church council, an entry in a barbarian law code, or the  applica-
tion  of unwritten social practices that were even more potent  than
written law.  And most of us, at one time or another, have had ideas
about  the role that "law" played, broadly writ, in the  society  of
Late  Antiquity, and about the transformations that  both  underwent
from the third through the seventh century.

This conference will provide a forum where many disparate strands of
thought about the transformation of law and society during Late  An-
tiquity can be brought together into a cohesive whole.  The topic is
meant  to be inclusive rather than exclusive.  We hope to  look  not
only  at laws-qua-documents and laws-qua-official decrees, but  also
at laws-qua-social instruments, and how law, and notions surrounding
law, functioned in real social contexts.

We  hope  to  have a very  broad  coverage,  chronologically  (third
through  seventh centuries), geographically (the  western  European,
Byzantine, and Islamic worlds), disciplinary (ranging from the  phi-
lology to the anthropoligy), and methodologically (epigraphy,  papy-
rology, palaeography, archaeology).  We also hope to have  represen-
tatives of Late Roman, Early Medieval, Byzantine, and Islamic  stud-
ies.   Contributions  that take an interdisciplinary  approach,  and
submissions from junior scholars, are especially encouraged.

Just  a  few of the many possible topics that we would like  to  see
covered include:

* The genesis of legislation: individual initiative or social  need,
  proactive or reactive?;
* The   drafting  of  legislation,  viz.  the  relative   roles   of
  emperors/kings, officials, and "staff";
* The  nature  of Roman "provincial" law, and its influence  on  the
  development of "barbarian" law;
* The  nature of law in "barbarian kingdoms," and the  relation  be-
  tween so-called "Roman" and "barbarian" law;
* The process of the transmission and survival of Roman law;
* The development and application of canon law;
* The nature of legal "theory" in east and west;
* The development of Islamic law;
* How to "read" and interpret legal documents;
* The nature of legal education;
* The  nature of law "on the ground": the promulgation and  enforce-
  ment of legal injunctions;
* The  nature of "de facto" laws (or "customs") that defined  social
  relations;  how were the social customs of classical times  trans-
  formed during Late Antiquity?
* Social developments in which "law" is involved only conceptually.

We anticipate publishing the proceedings in a format similar to that
of the first conference (Aldershot: Variorum, 1996).

Members  of the Program Committee include Beatrice Caseau (Univ.  of
Paris  IV -- Sorbonne), Gillian Clark (Univ. of Liverpool),  Jacque-
line Long (Univ. of Texas), David Miller (Tulsa, Okla.), Hagith  Si-
van (Institute for Advanced Study), and Dennis Trout (Tufts).

Those  who would like to present papers are asked to submit  a  one-
page abstract clearly setting out thesis and conclusions to Ralph W.
Mathisen, Dept. of History, University of South Carolina,  Columbia,
S.C. 29208, U.S.A.
FAX 803-777-4494   --   EMAIL: [email-masked].

The Conference will be held March 13-16, 1997, on the campus of  the
University  of South Carolina in Columbia, S.C.  The month of  March
in South Carolina is spectacular, with the azaleas in full bloom and
the weather as good as it ever gets.  Columbia is served by  several
major airlines and easily reached by Interstates 26 from  Asheville,
N.C.  (145 mi.), 20 from Atlanta (200 mi.), and 77  from  Charlotte,
N.C. (90 mi.).

For  information about registration and accommodations, please  for-
ward a request to the address above.

====================================================================

                         BOOK ANNOUNCEMENTS

Thomas  S. Burns, *Barbarians within the Gates of Rome. A  Study  of
Roman Military Policy and the Barbarians, ca. 375-425 A.D.*  (Bloom-
ington, Ind.: Univ. of Indiana Press, 1995).

Margarita Vallejo Girves, *Bizancio y la Espana Tardoantiqua*, Memo-
rias  del Seminario de Historia Antigua 4 (Alcala de Henares:  Univ.
de Alcala de Henares, 1993).

Martin  Heinzelmann, *Gregor von Tours (538-594)  Zehn  Bucher  Ges-
chichte.   Historiographie und Gesellschaftskonzept im  6.  Jahrhun-
dert* (Darmstadt: Wissenschaftliche Buchgesellschaft, 12994).

Jacqueline  Long, *Claudian's In Eutropium.  Or, How, Whan, and  Why
to  Slander a Eunuch* (Chapel Hill: Univ. of North  Carolina  Press,
1996). pp. 291 + xiv, with index.

Bruno  Luiselli, *Storia culturale dei rapporti fra mondo  romano  e
mondogermanico*  (Roma: Herder, 1992  (pp. 1000 ca.; it  deals  with
the romanobarbarian kingdoms)

Kristoffel DeMoen, *Pagan and Biblical Exempla in Gregory Nazianzen.
A Study in Rhetoric and Hermeneutics*, Corpus Christianorum,  Lingua
Patrum 2 (Turnhout: Brepols Publishers, 1996) (498 p.).  ISBN 2-503-
50481-7 (hb) / 2-503-50482-5 (pb)

Annabel Jane Wharton, *Refiguring the Post Classical City: Dura  Eu-
ropos, Jerash, Jerusalem and Ravenna* (New York: Cambridge Universi-
ty Press, 1995).

Ewa Wipszycka, *Etudes sur le christianisme dans l'Egypte de l'Anti-
quite tardive*, Studia Ephemeridis Augustinianum 52 (Rome:  Institu-
tum Patristicum Augustinianum,  1996) 452 pp., index.  ISBN 88-7961-
045-7
L'auteur reedite avec des complements et des mises a jour ses  arti-
cles  sur le christianisme egyptien, en y ajoutant des  etudes  ine-
dites  (dont "Les rapports entre les monasteres et les laures  a  la
lumiere des fouilles de Naqlun (Fayoum").  L'ensemble est reparti en
4 sections (I. Le christianisme dans la societe egyptienne; II.  Les
institutions ecclesiastiques en Egypte; III. Le monachisme egyptien,
avec  un Appendice de Michel BREYDY, La version des Regles  et  pre-
ceptes  de  St. Antoine verifiee sur les manuscrits  arabes;  IV.Les
persecutions).  L'ouvrage est muni d'index detaille des noms et  des
sujets.
Orders;
Institutum Patristicum Augustinianum,
Via Paolo VI, 25,
OO193 Roma, 1996
Jean Gascou
Institut de Papyrologie
(Universite des Sciences Humaines)
9, place de l'Universite
67084 Strasbourg Cedex
From: [email-masked] (Jean Gascou)

--------------------------------------------------------------------

         *The Archaeology and Art of Central Asia Studies
                   from the Former Soviet Union*

          Edited by B. A.  Litvinskii and C. A.  Bromberg

(Volume 8 of the Bulletin of the Asia Institute Published  May 1996)

                             Contents

A.I. Isakov, "Sarazm: An Agricultural Center of Ancient Sogdiana"
A. Askarov and T. Shirinov, "The 'Palace,' Temple, and Necropolis of
    Jarkutan"
V.I. Sarianidi, "Aegean-Anatolian Motifs in the Glyptic Art of  Bac-
    tria and Margiana"
I.V. P'iankov, "The Ethnic History of the Sakas"
B.A. Litvinskii  and I. R. Pichikian, "The Hellenistic  Architecture
    and Art of the Temple of the Oxus"
B.I. Vainberg, "The Kalali-Gir 2 Ritual Center in Ancient Khwarazm"
G.V. Shishkina, "Ancient Samarkand"
V.N. Pilipko, "Excavations of Staraia Nisa"
A. Bader,  V. Gaibov, and G. Koshelenko, "Materials for an  Archaeo-
    logical Map of the Merv Oasis"
V.A. Livshits  and  V. G. Shkoda, "Old Indian Kapala in  a  Bactrian
    Inscription from Qara-Tepe"
E.V. Rtveladze,  "Kampir-Tepe:  Structures, Written  Documents,  and
    Coins"
D.V. Rusanov, "The Fortifications of Kampir-Tepe"
IU A. Rapoport, "The Palaces of Topraq-Qal'a"
B.I. Marshak  and  V.I.  Raspopova, "Worshipers  from  the  Northern
    Shrine of Temple II, Panjikent"
L.V. Pavchinskaia, "Sogdian Ossuaries"
G.A. Pugachenkova, "The Form and Style of Sogdian Ossuaries"
E.V. Zeimal',  "The Circulation of Coins in Central Asia during  the
    Medieval Period "

Bibliography and Index

Clothbound, 8= x 11= "; ca. 350 pp., 244 ills. $65 + $8 shipping  in
    U.S. funds, U.S. bank  Pre-payment necessary.
Order  from:  Bulletin of the Asia Institute,  3287  Bradway  Blvd.,
    Bloomfield   Hills,  MI  48301  Telephone:  810-647-7917;   Fax:
    810-647-9223; E-mail: [email-masked]

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                     *Holy Women of Byzantium:
             Ten Saints' Lives in English Translation*

                    Edited by Alice-Mary Talbot

The ten holy women whose biographies are presented here represent  a
wide  variety of Byzantine female saints: nuns who  disguised  them-
selves in male monastic garb; a repentant harlot who withdrew to the
desert  for forty-seven years of self-imposed isolation; a  nun  who
escaped  from Arab captivity to spend thirty-five years as a  hermit
on the abandoned island of Paros; a wonder working abbess who slew a
dragon; widows who found refuge in the ascetic life of the  convent;
married laywomen and a queen abused by their husbands.  The  careers
of these holy women demonstrate some of the divergent paths to sanc-
tification in Byzantium, through mortification of the body,  unques-
tioning obedience to a monastic superior, repentance, acts of chari-
ty,  prophecy  and miracle-working.  At the same time the  texts  of
their Lives reveal the Byzantine ambivalence towards women, reflect-
ing the paradox of a civilization that simultaneously denigrated wo-
men  as daughters of Eve and elevated Mary as the Mother of God  and
the instrument of man's salvation.  These *vitae*, ranging from  the
fifth to thirteenth centuries, also supplement traditional narrative
histories  by  providing information on such  aspects  of  Byzantine
civilization as the impact of Arab and Bulgarian raids,  iconoclasm,
the monastic routine in convents, everyday family life and household
management,  and a smallpox epidemic in Thessalonike.  This  collec-
tion of sacred biographies is the initial volume in a new  Dumbarton
Oaks  series of translated Lives of Byzantine saints, rendered  into
English for the first time and fully annotated.

Byzantine Saints' Lives in Translation, 1
384 pp.  cloth ATHW $30.00 paperback ATHWP $18.50

Contents

A. Nuns Disguised as Monks
1. Life of St. Mary/Marinos / translated by Nicholas Constas
2.  Life  of St. Matrona of Perge / Jeffrey Featherstone  and  Cyril
Mango

B. Female Solitaries
3. Life of St. Mary of Egypt / Maria Kouli
4. Life of St. Theoktiste of Lesbos / Angela C. Hero

C. Cenobitic Nuns
5. Life of St. Elisabeth the Wonderworker / Valerie Karras
6. Life of St. Athanasia of Aegina / Lee Francis Sherry
7. Life of St. Theodora of Thessalonike / Alice-Mary Talbot

D. Pious Housewives
8. Life of St. Mary the Younger / Angeliki E. Laiou
9. Life of St. Thomais of Lesbos / Paul Halsall

E. A Saintly Empress
10. Life of St. Theodora of Arta / Alice-Mary Talbot

Indices
Index of People and Places
General Index
Index of Notable Greek Words

You  can address orders or inquiries for additional  information  on
titles in Byzantine Studies published by Dumbarton Oaks to:
[email-masked]

Visit our publications WWW site at
http://members.aol.com/DOBooks/TitleList.html
or write
Dumbarton Oaks Publishing Manager
1703 32nd Street, N.W.
Washington D.C. 20007

FAX orders can be sent to: 202-625-6805 (office hours 9-5 EST).
For  personal orders use VISA or MasterCard and  include  expiration
date and phone number.

Date:  Wed, 12 Jun 1996 20:41:29 -0400
From:  "<Glenn Ruby>" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Holy Women of Byzantium

--------------------------------------------------------------------

               *Shifting Frontiers in Late Antiquity*

                   R.W. Mathisen, H.S. Sivan eds.

(Aldershot: Variorum, 1996) pp. 384 + xvi with index, maps,  plates.

Includes  27 papers presented at the conference on  "Shifting  Fron-
tiers  in Late Antiquity," held at the University of Kansas,  March,
1995.   Part I, "Reevaluating Frontier Zones of  Interaction",  Sec-
tions A, "How Roman, How Barbarian?: Filling the Imperial Void,"  B,
"Redefining  the Social Frontiers of Frontier Populations,"  and  C,
"Redrawing  Internal Frontiers," Part II,  "Reconceptualizing  Meta-
phorical Frontiers," Sections A, "Reshaping the Frontiers of  Person
and Gender," and B, "Rethinking the Frontiers of Ritual, Piety,  and
Spirit."

Cost:  L50 (post paid if paid in advance).  Order from Ashgate  Pub-
lishing Ltd., Gower House, Croft Rd, Aldershot, Hampshire GU11  3HR,
Great  Britain *or* Old Post Road, Brookfield, Vermont  05036,  USA.
EMAIL: [email-masked]

--------------------------------------------------------------------

                          NEW BOOK SERIES

Byzantine Saints' Lives in Translation Series
Editor: Alice-Mary Talbot

Dumbarton Oaks is launching a series of English translations of  me-
dieval Greek Lives of saints to bring a selected group of these  bi-
ographies of holy men and women to the attention of a wider  public.
It is hoped that this new series will make available in  translation
a  genre  of medieval Greek text that has hitherto  been  relatively
inaccessible.  At present, the majority of the Byzantine Greek texts
that  have been translated into English are narrative  histories  or
writings of the Church Fathers; these should now be complemented  by
other  types of materials.  This project to translate saints'  Lives
is  not, in fact, a new idea, but one rooted in tradition, for  many
of  the Greek Lives of saints were translated into Latin,  Slavonic,
Syriac,  Armenian, Georgian, and Arabic during the  early  Christian
and Byzantine centuries to make them accessible to non-Greek  speak-
ers.   This new Dumbarton Oaks series will focus on the Greek  Lives
of  holy men and women of the eighth to fifteenth centuries, few  of
which have been previously translated, but will include a few earli-
er vitae as well.  For the initial phase of the series three volumes
are  planned, the first two comprising collections of vitae of  holy
women and saints of the so-called iconoclastic period  (ca.730-843),
the third being the lengthy Life of the eleventh-century monk  Laza-
ros of Mt. Galesios.  The series is aimed at a broad and multitiered
audience: students and general readers who wish to learn more  about
the  cult  of saints, monasticism, and everyday life  in  Byzantium;
scholars  of the western medieval and Slavic worlds who want  to  do
comparative  studies in hagiography and monasticism;  and  Byzantine
specialists  who  will find these volumes convenient  selections  of
important vitae, accompanied by relatively extensive annotation  and
bibliography.
-from the General Introduction to "Holy Women of Byzantium"

Advisory Board for the Series John Duffy Elizabeth A. Fisher; Angela
C. Hero; Alexander P. Kazhdan; Angeliki E. Laiou; Henry Maguire; Mi-
chael McCormick; Ihor Sevcenko; Denis F. Sullivan

Titles in Preparation
no. 1: Holy Women of Byzantium (now available)
no. 2: Byzantine Saints and Iconoclasm
no. 3: St. Lazaros of Mt. Galesios

Date:  Wed, 12 Jun 1996 20:41:16 -0400
From:  "<Glenn Ruby>" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Byzantine Saints' Lives in Translation

--------------------------------------------------------------------

    ENCYCLOPEDIA OF EARLY CHRISTIAN ART AND ARCHAEOLOGY (EECAA)

We  seek  contributions in all categories of late  antique  material
culture,  especially  iconography, for the  *Encyclopedia  of  Early
Christian Art and Archaeology* (EECAA).  The project aims at a brief
but comprehensive treatments of all late antique material  evidence,
A.D.  200 - 600; as the title indicates, with a focus  on  Christian
remains.   Please send a list of your publications via either  elec-
tronic or regular mail.  Advanced graduate students may apply.

If  there are any questions, please feel free to call the office  of
Terri  A.  Fahrney at the University of Missouri --  St.  Louis,  at
314/517-5781.

Mailing Address:                E-MAIL ADDRESS:
PCF/Terri A. Fahrney            <[email-masked]>
Dept. of History                DR. C. FINNEY AND TERRI A. FAHRNEY
406 Lucas Hall
8001 Natural Bridge Road
St. Louis, MO 63121

--------------------------------------------------------------------

              *TRANSLATED TEXTS FOR HISTORIANS* (TTH)

*TTH* is published by Liverpool University Press and distributed  in
the USA by University of Pennsylvania Press. The series remit is  to
make  available translations of texts from c.300 - 800 AD, with  in-
troduction  and  annotation suited to the needs of students  and  of
those  teaching and researching in Late Antiquity. 23  volumes  have
been published so far.  Most are translations from Latin and  Greek;
one is from Syriac, and another is expected this year;  translations
from Armenian, Georgian and Arabic are among those in preparation.

Expected soon in 1996 are a revised edition of Vegetius, *Epitome of
Military  Science*, ed. Nicholas Milner; *Donatist  Martyr  Stories:
The  Church in Conflict in Roman North Africa*, ed. Maureen  Tilley;
*Pseudo-Dionysius  of  Tel Mahre = John of  Ephesus,  Ecclesiastical
History* part 2, ed. Witold Witakowski.

The editors are always glad to hear from specialists who would  like
to suggest, or to offer, a translation.  Do please also tell us,  or
ask,  about plans to translate relevant texts for other series,  be-
cause there have been cases of duplicated effort!

The  General  Editors are Gillian Clark,  University  of  Liverpool,
email [email-masked], and Mary Whitby, Royal Holloway, University
of London, email m.whitby@rhbnc.

The Editorial Committee are Sebastian Brock (Oxford), Averil Cameron
(Oxford), Henry Chadwick (Oxford), John Davies (Liverpool), Carlotta
Dionisotti (London), Peter Heather (London), Robert Markus (Notting-
ham),  John  Matthews (Yale), Claudia Rapp (UCLA), Raymond  Van  Dam
(Ann Arbor), Michael Whitby (Warwick), and Ian Wood (Leeds).

From: Gillian Clark <[email-masked]>

====================================================================

                       JOURNAL ANNOUNCEMENTS

--------------------------------------------------------------------

                       *L'ANTIQUITE TARDIVE*

The journal l'Antiquite Tardive was established in 1988  during  the
Congres International d'Archeologie chretienne at Lyon.  The journal
deals with both archaeology and history.  The next issue will be out
in the fall, and it will present an important  discussion of  double
churches, as well as other historical papers. The journal can be or-
dered from Brepols, Steenweg op Tielen 68, B-2300 Turnhout, Belguim.

Claire Sotinel <[email-masked]>

--------------------------------------------------------------------

                        *CLASSICS IRELAND*

                       on the World Wide Web

Volume 3 (1996) of *CLASSICS IRELAND*, the journal of the  Classical
Association of Ireland, has already been issued in traditional  form
but  now it is available over the network.  Read and see  what  it's
like.   Several  late antique articles can be found  here  including
Claudine Dauphin on prostitution in the Byzantine Holy Land and John
Curran on the Bones of St. Peter.

Although it is available electronically we would ask you to  encour-
age your libraries to order the printed version because it helps our
finances.  Subscription rates are low.

The URL for the *CLASSICS IRELAND* home page is
http://www.ucd.ie/~classics/ClassicsIreland.html

If you encounter any problems, mail me at [email-masked].
If  you  wish to contribute to future issues or to order  a  printed
copy for your library, contact the editor Theresa Urbainczyk (email:
[email-masked]).

Andrew Erskine
Department of Classics University College Dublin
[email-masked]

*Classics Ireland* volume 3 1996

"Sir George  Cockburn:  an Irish traveller and  collector",  Raymond
    Astbury
"The Bones of St Peter?", John Curran
"Brothels, Baths and Babes: prostitution in the Byzantine Holy Land
Claudine Dauphin
"Laser-Quests: unnoticed allusions to contraception in a poet and  a
    princeps," Nick Fisher
"A modest proposal for education in Ireland", D.R. Howlett
"Slavery in the Roman Empire: numbers and origins", John Madden
"Seamus Heaney's Cure at Troy: Politics and Poetry", Marianne McDon-
    ald
"George Thomson and the Irish Language", Sean O Luing
"Orpheus Reborn: Gottfried Benn's Orpheus' Death", Hugh Ridley
"The Politics of Aeschylus' Eumenides", Keith Sidwell

Plus Book Reviews

--------------------------------------------------------------------

    *INTERNATIONAL JOURNAL OF THE CLASSICAL TRADITION* (*ISCT*)

The  ISCT is dedicated to the study of the transmission,  reception,
and influence of all aspects of Graeco-Roman antiquity in other cul-
tures and later periods, from antiquity itself, especially Late  An-
tiquity as a transition period, through the Middle Ages, the Renais-
sance  and the Early Modern period into the present time.  This  in-
cludes all fields of human creativity such as literature, the  arts,
architecture,  philosophy,  the sciences, medicine,  law,  politics,
scholarship  in the historical disciplines, education,  and  popular
culture. The scope is not only cross-disciplinary but also  interna-
tional  and cross-cultural (both as to the subject areas and to  the
range of communication and cooperation).

The  ISCT's main publication is the quarterly International  Journal
of the Classical Tradition (IJCT) edited by Wolfgang Haase and Meyer
Reinhold  (Boston  University) in cooperation with  a  distinguished
multi-disciplinary  Editorial and Advisory Board. The IJCT  features
articles,  short notes, book reviews, research reports, and news  of
the  field in any of five languages: English, French, German,  Ital-
ian, and Spanish (all articles with abstracts in English).  Publica-
tion now stands at Vol. 2, issue 3.

The following material is related to Late Antiquity:

In II 2 (Fall 1995):
Wolfgang Liebeschuetz, "Pagan Mythology in the Christian Empire."

In II 3 (Winter 1995):
Wolfram  Hoerandner, "Literary Criticism in 11th-Century  Byzantium:
    Michael Psellos on John Chrysostom's Style."
Jacqueline Long, "Juvenal Renewed in Claudian's *In Eutropium*."

In II 4 (Spring 1996):
Roger  C.  Blockley, "Ammianus Marcellinus and his  Classical  Back-
    ground - Changing Perspectives."

There also are a number of book reviews on Late Antique topics

In I 3 (winter 1995), p. 139 ff.:
Fergus  Millar, *The Roman Near East 31 BC-AD 337*  (Cambridge,  MA,
    1993), reviewed by Wolfgang Liebeschuetz.

ibid., p. 145 ff.:
*Terentianus Maurus. De syllabis*, hrsg. und uebers. von Jan-Wilhelm
    Beck (Goettingen 1993), reviewed by Robert A. Kaster.

ibid., 147 ff.:
Augustine,  *Confessions*, 3 vols., introduction, text, and  commen-
    tary  by James J. O'Donnell (Oxford, 1992), reviewed by  Michele
    R. Salzman.

ibid., 150 ff.:
Ralph  Whitney  Mathisen,  *Roman  Aristocrats  in  Barbarian  Gaul.
    Strategies for Survival in an Age of Transition* (Austin, 1993),
    reviewed by J. F. Drinkwater.

In I 4 (spring 1995), 152 ff.:
Averil Cameron, *The Later Roman Empire, AD 284-430* (Cambridge, MA,
    1993) reviwed by Michele R. Salzman.

In II 1 (summer 1995), 124 ff.:
Peter  Salway, *The Illustrated History of Roman  Britain*  (Oxford,
    1993), reviewed by Wolfgang Liebeschuetz.

ibid., 128 ff.:
C. R.  Whittaker, *Frontiers of the Roman Empire. A Social and  Eco-
    nomic Study* (Baltimore and London, 1994), reviewed by Ralph  M.
    Mathisen.

ibid., 131 ff.:
Dennis  Ronald  MacDonald,  *Christianizing  Homer.  The  *Odyssey*,
    Plato,  and  the *Acts of Andrew** (Oxford, 1994),  reviewed  by
    David Dawson.

In II 4 (spring 1996), forthcoming:
William  E. Klingshirn, *Caesarius of Arles. The Making of a  Chris-
    tian Community in Late Antique Gaul* (Cambridge, 1994), reviewed
    by Charles Kannengiesser.

Forthcoming in issues of volume III:
Roger S. Bagnall and Bruce W. Frier, *The Demography of Roman Egypt*
    (Cambridge, 1994) and Roger S. Bagnall, *Egypt in Late  Antiqui-
    ty* (Princeton, 1994), reviewed together by Diana Delia.

Paul A.  Olson, *The Journey to Wisdom. Self-Education in  Patristic
    and  Medieval Literature* (Lincoln, Nebraska, 1995) reviewed  by
    Fritz-Peter Hager.

Jill Harries, *Sidonius Apollinaris and the fall of Rome AD 407-485*
    (Oxford, 1994), reviewed by Ralph W. Mathisen.

II  2 should appear soon; we expect the rest of them will be out  by
the end of the summer.

Full regular membership in the ISCT, which for 1995/96 is at $52  in
the  US and $68 in all other countries (in Europe  alternatively  DM
105), includes a subscription to the ISCT and to the joint  Newslet-
ter  of the Institute for the Classical Tradition and the  ISCT,  as
well as other benefits.

To  join and obtain more information, write to: ISCT, Institute  for
the Classical Tradition, Boston University, 745 Commonwealth Avenue,
Boston, MA 02215 (USA). Phone: 617-353-7370 or -7378; Fax:  617-353-
7369. E-mail [email-masked].

Eric Parks
Editorial Assistant
From: Eric Parks <[email-masked]>

--------------------------------------------------------------------

                  MEDIEVAL AND RENAISSANCE HISTORY

Emeritus Editor James A. Evans reports that the new editors of Stud-
ies  in  Medieval and Renaissance History are at the  University  of
Victoria.  The proofs for Volume 15, completed and returned a rather
long time ago, seem to be held up by AMS Press, the publisher.   His
understanding is that vol. 15 will be published eventually.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

            *MEDIEVAL PROSOPOGRAPHY* 17/1 (Spring 1996)

         -- Special Issue: Late Antiquity and Byzantium --
                  Ralph W. Mathisen, Guest Editor

Introduction-- by Ralph W. Mathisen
Studies--  by Raymond Van Dam, Hugh Elton, Steven Muhlberger,  Geof-
    frey    Greatrex, Jeffrey A. Oaks
Instrumenta Studiorum-- by Stefan Rebenich, J.R. Martindale,  Thomas
    Pratsch, Evengelos Chrysos, Alice-Mary Talbot and Lee F. Sherry,
    Victoria Erhart, K.S.B. Keats-Rohan and David Thornton
Bibliographica-- by Allen E. Jones, Jr.
Reviews--  by Mark W. Graham, Barbara M. Kreutz, Ralph W.  Mathisen,
    Marilyn Oliva, Joel T. Rosenthal, Mary A. Rouse, Wendell Tate
Varia-- on the New DNB and PROSOPON

Published by Medieval Institute Publications
Issue Price: $10.00
Ordering information: Contact Ardis Syndergaard, Medieval  Institute
    Publications, Western Michigan University, Kalamazoo, MI  49008-
    3801
Tel: (616) 387-8755; Fax: 616 387-8750; email: [email-masked]

--------------------------------------------------------------------

                            *THE PICUS*

The Picus, journal of the Classical & Medieval Numismatic Society.
If  anyone is interested in receiving information about the  Society
or  the journal, I would be pleased to furnish it.  Please email  me
(I  am the  Secretary-Treasurer) or write to the Society at  P.O.Box
956, Station B., Willowdale, Ontario, Canada, M2K 2T6.
[email-masked].........Fax 416-490-6452

====================================================================

                            JOB OPENINGS

--------------------------------------------------------------------

                    THE UNIVERSITY OF GRONINGEN
                          THE NETHERLANDS

                     CHAIR OF CLASSICAL LATIN

Applications are invited for the chair of Classical Latin (including
Neolatin) within the Faculty of Arts.  This is a tenured post.   The
person  appointed  will be a member of the Department  of  Classical
Languages.   He/she will be ultimately responsible for the  teaching
of Classical Latin and Neolatin, and for the research in this  field
within  the  department of Greek and Latin.  The appointee  will  be
expected  to carry out his/her research within the framework of  the
Research Institute for Classical, Oriental, Medieval and Renaissance
Studies (COMERS).
Further  particulars are available from the Secretary of the  selec-
tion  committee,  Prof.   C.H.  Kneepkens,  phone  (50)  3637265  or
3636114, fax nr (50) 3637263.  The international code of the Nether-
lands is 31.
Letters of application, including a curriculum vitae, a list of pub-
lications  and  the  names and addresses of at  least  two  referees
should  be sent to: the Head of Personnel Department, University  of
Groningen, P.O.Box 72, 9700 AB Groningen, The Netherlands.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

                     UNIVERSITY COLLEGE DUBLIN
                    THE DEPARTMENT OF CLASSICS

             LECTURESHIP IN LATE LATIN AND PALAEOGRAPHY

Applications are invited for a three-year post at  Assistant/College
Lecturer  level in Late Latin and Palaeography in the Department  of
Classics.   The  successful candidate, who should  be  qualified  in
Classical and Late Latin, will be expected:

*to be responsible for the teaching of beginners' and advanced Latin
to students of the MPhil in Medieval Studies and to other postgradu-
ate students of the Faculty of Arts.

*to  provide such teaching of Latin (of all periods), Latin  studies
and supervision of postgraduate students as the Head of the  Depart-
ment of Classics might require.

*to  give a course in Palaeography to students in the Department  of
Archives

*to carry out work in relation to the Collectio Canonum Hibernensis.
The appointee will be expected to assist in the completion of a  new
critical edition of the text to replace that of Hermann Wasserschle-
ben (Die irische Kanonensammlung, Leipzig 1885).

There  may  be an opportunity in the second and third years  of  the
contract to offer a special subject in the MPhil programme and/or in
the BA Classics course.

An important aspect of the appointment will be a willingness to play
a  lively role in the MPhil programme and more generally in the  de-
velopment of medieval studies within the Faculty of Arts through the
promotion of Latin.

The  appointment will be made at the level of either Assistant  Lec-
turer or College Lecturer.

The current salary scales are:
Assistant Lecturer: IR#13,921 - IR#22,468
College Lecturer:   IR#21,701- IR#35,807

Informal  enquiries  can  be  made to  Prof.  Andrew  Smith  (353  1
7068168), email: [email-masked].

Interviews will take place on August 28th and candidates called  for
interview will be expected to give a short seminar paper on a  topic
of their choice.

Applicants  should  send six copies of their CV and the  names,  ad-
dresses, telephone/fax numbers, email addresses of three referees to
Room 106, the Personnel Office, University College Dublin, Belfield,
Dublin 4, Ireland.

Telephone:  353 1 7061436 and 353 1 7061508
Fax:  353 1 2692472

THE CLOSING DATE:  THURSDAY 4TH JULY

Andrew  Erskine, Department of Classics, University  College  Dublin
Belfield,  Dublin 4, Ireland [email-masked] tel  (direct)
7068218

====================================================================

                           COMPUTER NOTES

--------------------------------------------------------------------

                             HAGIOMAIL

HAGIOMAIL  is an electronic forum on Christian  Hagiography  (Greek,
Latin, Oriental, Vernacular), established by the Societe des Bollan-
distes  (24, Bd St-Michel; B-1040 Bruxelles, Belgium).  Its  purpose
is to encourage interdisciplinary links between Researchers in Hagi-
ography and related fields (manuscripts, Church history,  vernacular
literature,  folklore,  liturgy, calendars, iconography  of  Saints,
scholarship).  Questions arising from research, brief notices  about
bibliographical  matters and new publications may be posted  in  any
modern international language.

How  does  "hagiomail" work?  When a subscriber sends an  e-mail  to
"hagiomail", the message is automatically dispatched to all the sub-
scribers.   So you can post questions arising from  research,  brief
notices  about bibliographical matters and new publications.   Post-
ings in any modern international language.  No registration fee.

If you wish to join the list, simply send the message:

subscribe hagiomail to

[email-masked]

The e-mail address of the list is [email-masked]

        Sincerely yours.

        Ugo Zanetti
        Bollandist

--------------------------------------------------------------------

                  "LATE ANTIQUITY ON THE INTERNET"

                           Michael DiMaio

Although  students  of Late Antiquity have traditionally  relied  on
books and journals as source materials for their studies of the  pe-
riod, the advent of the Internet has changed all of this.  Now, much
of what was once only available in hard copy is beginning to  appear
in an electronic format in record time.  This revolution in research
material is not without its labor pains since the Internet is  still
in  its infancy; for example, although Latin text can easily be  re-
trieved from the 'Net, Greek language text cannot be because, as far
as I have been able to determine, no ASCII code has yet been  estab-
lished  for the Greek alphabet.  Until agreement can be  reached  on
this  point,  Greek text has to be stored using the  Roman  alphabet
effectively  rendering the 'Net a useless tool in this area of  Late
Antique Studies.

Additionally, many scholars and students of Late Antiquity have  yet
to embrace this new technology and perhaps are uncertain whether  or
not  it  would be of any use to them in their  scholarly  endeavors.
The purpose of this column is to serve, in brief compass, as an  in-
troduction to this new technology and to show the neophyte how  easy
it is to access the 'Net and that one does not have to be a Geek  or
Nerd  to  do so.  If one can learn how to use the  arcane  tools  of
Classical scholarship, then one should be able to master the use  of
the Internet in one's research without any pain whatsoever.  Because
80%  of  the home computer market is PC based, my examples  will  be
drawn from that realm.

In its early days, the Internet was a pretty intimidating place  be-
cause  it required detailed knowledge, on the part of an  individual
user,  of Unix or Vax operating systems and many discrete pieces  of
software.   The 'Net was made up of minicomputers or mainframes  and
the  user would employ a dumb terminal to communicate with the  host
machine;  a  PC user would use a terminal program such  as  Pro-Comm
Plus or the Terminal Program, which comes with Microsoft Windows 3.1
or  3.11, to connect to a mainframe which, in turn, would be an  ac-
cess  point  to the Internet.  In a word,  these  telecommunications
programs would fool the mainframe into believing that a dumb  termi-
nal  was connected to it; simply put, one could not directly  access
the 'Net with a microcomputer, but would have to go through a anoth-
er  machine (usually a Vax or Unix machine) that would serve  as  an
intermediary  between  the  end user and the  net.   When,  however,
TCP/IP (Transmission Control Protocol/Internet Protocol), which  al-
lowed  SLIP (Serial Line Internet Protocol) or PPP (Point  to  Point
Protocol) direct connections for microcomputers to the 'Net via  mo-
dem  and  telephone line, was developed, this  situation  completely
changed  because the home computer could be directly linked  to  the
Internet in the same way that a mainframe or microcomputer could.

I  recommend the 16 bit slip by Winsock Trumpet slip for  those  who
use  Windows 3.1 or 3.11; it is usually provided to users  by  their
Internet provider or can be downloaded from various locations on the
'Net.  Installation of this program is simple.  The data needed  for
getting the program up and running can be obtained from the  Provid-
er.  If the user is lucky enough to own Microsoft Windows 95, a pro-
gram built into the system called "Dialup Networking," which can  be
installed  at the same time as Win 95, contains both a 32  bit  SLIP
and a 32 bit PPP connection.  Unfortunately, however, one will  need
the  help of one's provider to configure this slip, although  it  is
probably  -- in my opinion -- the most reliable on the  market.   In
should be noted in passing that, for the end user, there is no  dis-
cernable difference between a Slip and a PPP connection.

Because of the advent of SLIP and PPP protocols and the  development
of the World Wide Web (WWW) in 1991, all the complexity of using the
'Net  is effectively reduced to using two actions: point and  click,
words  which  may well have appeared first in the MAC  community  of
users.  The WWW is made up of multimedia files all interconnected by
hypertext  links.   Traditionally, on the web, text  is  printed  in
black  and the hypertext link (if a word) would be printed in  blue.
If you clicked on a specific link, you would go to the web  location
where the hypertext link pointed.  The various locations on the  WWW
are called Web sites.   To move around the WWW web, the user needs a
web  browser and the address or URL (Uniform Resource Locator) of  a
specific web site.  I will reserve my comments about browsers to the
next paragraph.  A typical URL would be http://www.vocaltec.com/wel-
come.html.  "Http" tells the computer that it is using the Hypertext
Transfer Protocol to transfer the file welcome.html (which is creat-
ed by the use of HyperText Markup Language -- html) to the user from
the web site run by Vocaltec, a company that dominates the  transfer
of voice files across the net.

Many  of the technicalities mentioned in the previous paragraph  are
rendered superfluous by a special program called a web browser which
allows its users to cruise the web to different sites and to  upload
and  download material from the web; these materials  include  text,
audio,  video,  and various types of graphic files.  The use  of  an
individual  browser is largely intuitive and requires the user  only
to  know what URL he wants and to be able to click his or her  mouse
on a specific hypertext link.  In a word, one program does the  work
of  a multitude of programs.  The two browsers, which  dominate  the
WWW at present are Netscape (my favorite) and the Microsoft Exploer-
er;  although your internet provider may supply you  with  Netscape,
both browsers, as well as a multitude of other software, are  avail-
able from Stroud's CWS App List (http://cws.wilmington.net), The Ul-
timate  Collection of Winsock Software  (http://tucows.phx.cox.com),
or Windows 95 Company (http://www.windows95.com/apps/).  Needless to
say, more software than netware can be obtained from these sites and
they merit frequent visits.  In passing it is worth noting that both
of these browsers also have email and network news readers built  in
to  them so that one can keep down the total number of net  applica-
tions to a minimum.

Below I have included a basic list of web sites which would  provide
the new user with good starting points to use in order to get a bas-
ic  familiarity  with material on Late Antiquity, although  most  of
them are not specificially geared toward Late Antiquity.  The common
thread that joins all these sites is that they will provide the 'net
neophyte  with a broad number of hypertext links which allow him  or
her to become familiar with what is available on the subject in  the
shortest time possible.

Scholarly Resources:

Scholars:
          Listing of Ancient Historians in the US and Canada:
          http://ivory.trentu.ca/www/cl/aahdir.html

          Home Page Directory of Classicists:
          http://aleph.lib.ohio-state.edu/~bcase/hoipolloi.html

Works:

          Electronic Resources for Classicists:
          http://www.circe.unh.edu/classics/resources.html

Archaeology:

          Romarch List Home Page:
          http://www.umich.edu/~pfoss/ROMARCH.html

Historical:

          Centre for East Roman Studies
          http://www.warwick.ac.uk/WWW/faculties/arts/Class

          The Byzantine Studies Home Page
          http://www.bway.net/~halsall/byzantium.html

General:

          Classics Home Page:
          http://rome.classics.lsa.umich.edu/welcome.html

          James O'Donnell's Home Page:
          http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/jod/

          On-Line Reverence Book for Medieval Studies:
          http://kuhttp.cc.ukans.edu/kansas/orb/mainpage.html

Of  all of these web sites, the last three are the ones that  should
be examined first.  James O'Donnell's Home Page is the closest thing
that there is to a home page for Late Antiquity.  If there is a link
to an arcane topic, Jim O'Donnell has it.  His discussion of the use
of  the Internet as a teaching tool and the manner in which he  uses
it at Penn should be required reading for all academics who want  to
be up to paar on a very fascinating topic.  Jim is also a major pio-
neer in the of the 'Net in the study of Late Antiquity.  If my  home
page were as good as his, I would be proud.  The Classics Home  Page
covers  all periods of antiquity and provides the user with a  large
number of hypertext links to all aspects of antiquity including  the
period we are interested in.   The virtual tour of Diocletian's pal-
ace in Split is worthy of note.  The On-Line Reference Book for  Me-
dieval Studies (ORB), currently in progress, is one of the most fas-
cinating  sites of which I am aware.  Among other things, it has  an
online  encyclopedia  that will treat aspects of Late  Antiquity  as
well as serving as a source book for the Middle Ages and for aspects
of Late Antiquity.  Submissions for this site are peer reviewed.

It  should  be  remembered that web sites are not  static  like  the
printed  page;  some  sites change on a daily  basis,  while  others
change  over a long span of time.  Netscape, for example, if  confi-
guered correctly, can monitor these changes.  URLs can disappear  in
the blink of an eye; what is here today, can be gone tomorrow.   Al-
though  one  can learn new web sites from surfing the  Net,  I  have
found that I heave discovered more of them from postings to the var-
ious subject e-mail(electronic mail) lists which may treat Late  An-
tiquity.  Some that deal totally or in part with Late Antiquity are:

[email-masked]                     Late Antiquity
[email-masked]                      Ancient/Medieval numismatics
[email-masked]           Byzantine studies
[email-masked]     Roman archaeology
[email-masked]                  Medieval studies
[email-masked]               Classics

E-mail,  which remains the foundation of the Internet, can be  down-
loaded  from  the net using Netscape or Microsoft Explorer  or  such
stand  alone mailers as Eudora or Pegasus, which can  be  downloaded
from the software sites discussed above.  I prefer the Pegasus Mail-
er,  for example, to the mailer that is in Netscape.  It is easy  to
subscribe to any of these mailing lists.  To subscribe to  lt-antiq,
one  would  send an email note to [email-masked] with  an  empty
subject  line.  In the body of the e-mail note, one would type  SUB-
SCRIBE  LT-ANTIQ first-name last-name.  If done properly,  you  will
never have an empty electronic mailbox again.

What about future technology on the 'net?  Today the latest rage  is
voice  across the 'Net or telephony.  Iphone 4.0 from  Vocaltec  re-
mains the standard.  Will the trend change?  Yes. the best  location
tp  investigate future trends on the net is to follow  closely  Jeff
Pulver's  site  Netwatch  (http://www.pulver.com/Netwatch/).  Pulver
follows  changes  on the Netwatch.  The ordinary user can  too.   In
conclusion, to quote one famous psychologist, "take on the day."

Michael DiMaio, Ph.D
Department of Philosophy
Salve Regina University
Newport, RI DMSXCT583I EOF:
From: "Michael_DiMaio" <[email-masked]>
Organization: Salve Regina University

--------------------------------------------------------------------

       "Recapitulation, Digression, and Getting to the Point:

      A Discussion of the Murder of Hypatia and Other Matters"

                         Ralph W. Mathisen

     The  discussions that take place on Internet  discussion  lists
are by their very nature dynamic.  Depending on their settings, sub-
scribers  either receive postings in real time, as they are  posted,
or (if they are set to "DIGEST"), they receive daily collections  of
all the postings.  In either case, discussions progress on a minute-
by-minute  basis for some, a day-to-day basis for others.  Nor  does
the debate take place in any kind of logical or sequential order.  A
response  to  one point may not appear until days later, at  a  time
when the discussion has already moved on to other things.  Some dis-
cussants insist on repeating the ipsissima verba of a previous  com-
mentator  before  adding their own views --  or  even  interspersing
their views with those of another.

     The special nature of Internet discussions, with their lack  of
direct personal contact and the concommitant removal of some conven-
tional  social  controls, also can result in  some  debates  getting
rather  out  of hand.  Especially when discussions touch  on  topics
dear  to  one's heart.  There is often a tendency or  temptation  to
shoot  from the hip, to speak in haste and, perhaps, repent at  lei-
sure.

     The  following recapitulation of a discussion of the murder  of
Hypatia,  which took place between January 29 and February 8,  1996,
exemplifies many of the aspects of Internet discussions.  It shows a
typical Internet tempest in a teacup that flared up as rapidly as it
died down.  It is replete with talk of "flames" and even of the  de-
struction of discussion lists as a result of, well, too much discus-
sion.   It  is  full  of  digressions,  repetitions,  misunderstand-
ings .... and even misinformation.  And it demonstrates the vitality
of  the new form of scholarly-cum-popular communication  represented
by Internet discussion lists.  It is presented in its original  for-
mat -- only the headers have been deleted! --, so apologies for long
lines, misspellings, and other stylistic and technical infelicities.

     It all began with an innocent query about the Library of  Alex-
andria, but soon turned to more juicy topics...

=====================================================================
====
Date:         Mon, 29 Jan 1996 23:26:56 CST
From:         "OREL, SARA" <[email-masked]>
Subject:      query on Egypt c. 600

I tried to send this earlier, but of course got the wrong address,
so I am reposting this query.
I have a request for help.  My antiquity books stop in the late 6th
century and my history of Islamic Egypt books generally are very light on
pre-Islamic Egypt, so my query falls into the great gap typical of all
libraries (although not always in the same fields of course).  Someone
has asked me (actually insists and I think she may be inaccurate) if
Arabic is the common spoken language in Egypt at the time of the final
burning of the Library of Alexandria ca. 600.  I would guess that the
common tongue was still Coptic but I don't know how long it took Arabic
to take over completely (or at least as the vernacular).  Also my
Library of Alexandria knowledge is a bit slim, so could anyone confirm
for me that it was intact enough to burn at that point?  Thanks for your
help.
Is it appropriate to refer her to Bagnall's *Egypt in Late
Antiquity* for military in society info at this late a date?
   Thanks
       Sara E. Orel
       Northeast Missouri State University/Truman State University
=====================================================================
====
Date:         Tue, 30 Jan 1996 07:43:03 -0500
From:         "Timothy M. Teeter" <[email-masked]>
The burning of the Library is largely a myth.  See the articles/works of
Diana Delia on this (sorry, I don't have the exact references available,
but you should be able to dig them out).
Since the Arabs did not conquer Egypt until 639-641, it is hard to see how
Arabic could be the common language c. 600.  In any event, Greek papyri
continue for sometime into the Arab period.

Bagnall's work contains some information relevant to the sixth and seventh
centuries, but concentrates on the fourth.  His bibliography is helpful.
For other general information (and useful bibliography) see Alan Bowman,
Egypt After the Pharaohs (1986).

Tim Teeter
=====================================================================
Date:         Tue, 30 Jan 1996 10:16:19 -0400
From: Helene Gidley X7701 <[email-masked]>
Subject: ltant: Re: query on Egypt c. 600
To: Multiple recipients of list LT-ANTIQ
I thought the library was burned to the ground in circa 452 a.d., just
after
Hypatia was murdered.  She was one of the last teachers in the
library/museum,
her father was the last director.
Helene Gidley
======================================================
Date:         Tue, 30 Jan 1996 21:08:01 -0600
From: Ted Mayes <[email-masked]>
Subject: ltant: Re: query on Egypt c. 600
To: Multiple recipients of list LT-ANTIQ
Helene Gidley wrote:
   Unfortunately, the sources are not clear enough to know exactly what
was burned and when. Some of the books may have been burned by Julius
Caesar's war in Alexandria against Ptolemy. Some may have been burned in
452. There is a report that some were burned under Arab governors (I don't
have the exact reference to that, but I'll try to find it). Exactly what
was burned and when, and whether it was part of the Ptolemies' famous
hoard of books is very murky.
   Also, Hypatia was, apparently murdered, but she may not be one of the
last teachers in the library, just one of the last that we know about. The
same can be said about her father, merely one of the last directors we
know
about. Remember that paganism was going out of style at the time, and
little
was recorded about the library.
   As far as the Museum, E.R. Hardy in *Christian Egypt: Church and
People - Christianity and Nationalism in the Patriarchate of Alexandria*
said-
"In 215 Severus' son Caracalla visited Alexandria, and treated its
traditional
restiveness and freedom of speech as rebellion, which he punished by
executions, a massacre ... and the loss of special privileges. The famous
Museum disappeared from history at this time, and probably its endowments
were
suppressed by Caracalla."
   Finally, since Hypatia's murder is sometimes used to denigrate
Christianity, two quotes about Alexandria -
   Hardy again - "The people of Alexandria had throughout the ancient
history of the city a reputation for excitability and readiness to riot
for
any cause or almost for non. .... Third-century Alexandria had not lost
its
 ancient habits; the rebellion of 262 is said to have begun between a
soldier
 and a magistrate's slave about the value of their shoes."
   Marrou, H.I., "Synesius of Cyrene and Alexandrian Neoplationism" -
"Fanaticism [in Alexandria] was not the monopoly of Christians; it was to
be found equally in the other camp. ....  Zacharias Scholasticus ...
records
for us ... a significant episode which occurred about 485-7.... He
describes
how pagan students in Alexandria lynched one of their fellows, Paralios,
who was about to become a convert to Christianity, for having dared to
defame publicly their great goddess Isis."
   Ted Mayes [email-masked]
======================================================
Date:         Wed, 31 Jan 1996 08:33:49 +0000
From: Alex Woolf <[email-masked]>
Subject: ltant: Re: query on Egypt c. 600
To: Multiple recipients of list LT-ANTIQ
So here we have pagan university students in 485-7, some time after
Hypatia
murder if I recall rightly the date for that. The link of the University
and Isis also recalls Oxford [where the Thames is called the Isis], was
this a conscious emulation of pagan Alexandria?
Alex
======================================================
Date:         Wed, 31 Jan 1996 06:19:54 -0600
From: Ted Mayes <[email-masked]>
Subject: ltant: Re: query on Egypt c. 600
To: Multiple recipients of list LT-ANTIQ
Alex,
   From your email address, you'd probably have a better knowledge of
whether or not Oxford is consciously or unconsciously emulating Alexandra.
However, even in 485-7, using "pagan university students" is something of
an
anachronism. There were definitely pagan philosophy students in Alexandria
at that time, and Alexandria was very proud of their philosophical
"schools"
but the "university" with all the connotations that that word suggests was
a
medieval development. Was it Bologna or Paris that was first?
======================================================
Date:         Wed, 31 Jan 1996 16:28:22 -0500
From:         "R. W. Tucker" <[email-masked]>
Subject:      Re: query on first university

>the "university" with all the connotations that that word suggests was a
>medieval development. Was it Bologna or Paris that was first?
    Paris certainly claims to be first, and claims Peter Abelard as its
founder. I'm not sure he had any such thing in mind.
    Rob Tucker, Philadelphia
=====================================================================
Date:         Wed, 31 Jan 1996 22:05:02 -0400
From:         Mark DeLancey <[email-masked]>
Subject:      Re: query on first university

>the "university" with all the connotations that that word suggests was a
>medieval development. Was it Bologna or Paris that was first?

That's funny...I thought it was Al-Azhar in Cairo, founded in 970.
Mark DeLancey
======================================================
Date:         Wed, 31 Jan 1996 08:40:42 -0500
From: gary reger <[email-masked]>
Subject: ltant: Re: query on Egypt c. 600
To: Multiple recipients of list LT-ANTIQ
I haven't been following this thread, but has anyone mentioned the book on
the library, titled (I think) *The Library of Alexandria* by Luciano
Canfora, published by University of California Press? (I may have both
title
and author slightly wrong as I cite from memory.)
=====================================================================
Date:         Wed, 31 Jan 1996 15:25:19 +0000
From:         Margaret Lantry <[email-masked]>
Subject:      Re: query on Egypt c. 600
The book is Canfora *La biblioteca scomparsa*. Translated into English
as *The Vanished Library*, published in Berkeley, CA and London in 1989.
It is out in paperback (at least in the English edition published by
Hutchinson Radius) and is quite a slim volume.
Edition Manager                 West Road
RHS British Bibliographies      Cambridge CB3 9EF UK
=====================================================================
Date:         Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:53:59 -0600
From: John G Suhayda <[email-masked]>
Subject: ltant: Re: query on Egypt c. 600
To: Multiple recipients of list LT-ANTIQ
What (if any) is the historical concensus regarding the Christian account
of
the martyrdom of Saint Katherine?  Somehow hers story appears to me to be
the
mirror image of Hypatia's, with the Christian and pagan roles reversed.
John Suhayda
[email-masked]
=====================================================================
Date:         Wed, 31 Jan 1996 14:18:50 -0600
From:         Ted Mayes <[email-masked]>
Subject:      Re: query on Egypt c. 600

John Suhayda asks what the consensus is on the martyrdom of Saint
Katherine -
unfortunately I'm not acquainted with that story (I've concentrated more
on
the dogmatical writings than the stories of saints and hermits). If
someone
else knows about this, or has an opinion, please feel free to jump in.
   Re the Library, not only is Luciano Canfora, *The Vanished Library*
(Berkely: U of CA Press, 1987) good for information about the Library and
Museum/Mouseion, but also check out Mostafa El-Abbadi, *The Life and Fate
of the Ancient Library of Alexandria*, (Paris: Unesco, 1990).
   What my notes indicate to me is that it's most probably that Caracalla
pulled all of the monetary support for the Mouseion/Library. The area that
the
Museum was located in, the Bruchion, was devastated in a 273 in a
rebellion
against Aurelian (in support of Zenobia?). However, Synesius of Cyrene saw
the Musueum in 380, so it was still in existence then. It's believed that
it
met its fate in 391 when Theodosius closed/destroyed the pagan temples in
Alexandria (and after all that was what the Museum was, a temple dedicated
to
the Muses). In the fifth century there seems to have been a reaction
against
learning, libraries across the empire closing down (Ammianus makes a
comment
about Rome being devoid of books). There is a 12th century report that one
of the early Arab rulers of Egypt (Amr?) had some books burned, but El-
Abbadi
says that was probably an invention. There might have been some of the
books
from the ancient library burned then, but there's no way that we can know
that. By that time, the world had turne away from such "old" things and
they
were priding themselves on being "modern."
   Ted Mayes [email-masked]
=====================================================================
Date:         Wed, 31 Jan 1996 13:24:58 -0500
From:         Richard Landes <[email-masked]>
Subject:      Re: query on Egypt c. 600

what's our source for this incident?
rlandes
====================================================
Date:         Wed, 31 Jan 1996 18:43:48 -0600
From:         Ted Mayes <[email-masked]>
Subject:      Re: query on Egypt c. 600

"rlandes" asked what the source was for the story about the pagan students
in Alexandria who lynched a fellow student who was about to convert to
Christianity.
H.I. Marrou, "Synesius of Cyrene and Alexandrian Neoplatonism", *Paganism
and
Christianity in the Fourth Century*, ed. A. Momigliano (Oxford:Clarendon
Press,
1963), pp. 136-137, where Marrou attributes it to the *Life* of Severus of
Antioch (Monophysite patriarch) by Zachrias Scholasticus. (I do not have
in
my notes the reference to the edition or page numbers of Scholasticus'
*Life*)
   Ted Mayes [email-masked]
=====================================================================
Date:         Thu, 1 Feb 1996 01:27:24 -0500
From: Richard Landes <[email-masked]>
Subject: ltant: Re: query on Egypt c. 600
To: Multiple recipients of list LT-ANTIQ
part of my reason for asking was to know just how reliable we can take
such a tale: when a Christian patriarch tells us that pagan students
lynched a fellow because he was planning to convert, I need to know more
before I'll set it up as a "counter" (as does Marrou I presume) to the
attack on Hypatia (evidence for which comes from the perps).
rlandes
======================================================
Date:         Thu, 1 Feb 1996 11:19:35 -0500
From: "Jeffrey A. Oaks" <[email-masked]>
Subject: ltant: Hypatia
To: Multiple recipients of list LT-ANTIQ
For a review of Maria Dzielska's new book *Hypatia of Alexandria* by a
mathematician, see The American Mathematical Monthly, vol 103 no.1, Jan
1996,
pages 83-87.
======================================================
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 11:41:52 -0800
From: John Servais <[email-masked]>
Subject: ltant: Re: query on Egypt c. 600
To: Multiple recipients of list LT-ANTIQ
An opinion here - which can be taken to private mail if it is
inappropriate to the list.
The implication, and I also think there was this implication, that the
pagan murder counters the murder of Hypatia misses the point.  The
Christian claim that their's is a religion of love and brotherhood and
superior to pagan values is exposed as hypocricy in light of the murder
of Hypatia committed by monks with the approval if not the blessing of
the patriarch of Alexandria.  For them to say the pagans also committed
murder is beside the point.  The murder of Hypatia - and the
circumstances surrounding it - need to be addressed directly and in the
context of the development of Christianity - and not excused on the basis
that it was no worse than what the pagans practiced or that it was
typical of Alexandrian historical events.
John Servais                             NorthWest House
======================================================
Date:         Thu, 1 Feb 1996 18:00:12 -0600
From: Ted Mayes <[email-masked]>
Subject: ltant: Re: query on Egypt c. 600
To: Multiple recipients of list LT-ANTIQ
rlandes was concerned that the lynching of a pagan student was a 'counter'
to the murder of Hypatia - I believe that Marrou was not trying to
"counter"
a murder by balancing it with another murder, but merely pointing out that
fanaticism, of many shades and varieties, was endemic in Alexandria. It
cannot be laid simply at the feet of one group in Alexandria, or one group
in the ancient world.
rlandes also suggest that testimony from a Christian patriarch is suspect
when speaking about pagan problems, but that the evidence of the Hypatia's
murder, coming from the "perps" is definitive. I have to check my notes on
this, but I didn't understand that the "perps" had actually written a
confession. Perhaps rlandes is just more trusting of his sources than I
am.
I'm not aware off hand of an Alexandrian historical source on the matter,
but perhaps rlandes is content with the historical witness of those who in
many instances were anti-Alexandrian.
John Servais sees the murder of Hypatia as sign of Christian hypocrisy, if
Christianity is a religion of "love and brotherhood." 1)One could say that
the exception proves the rule - there is one pagan martyr, killed by a
mob,
for reasons that seem to be murky at best. True that one murder (and
others
committed by those who claim to be Christian) should not have happened,
but
does that then mean that paganism is now equal to the moral stature of
Christianity? Some Christian fanatics killed a pagan (which, of course,
should
not have happened). Shall we then compare that with the hundreds and
thousands of Christian martyrs sent to death, the mines, or torture, by
good,
responsible, civic-minded pagans, because of their belief in a crucified
Jew?
2) The murder was committed "with the approval if not the blessing of the
patriarch of Alexandria." That certainly was the accusation of anti-
Alexandrian apologists, but an accusation does not constitute proof. I
believe that Athanasius was also accused of a number of horrific crimes,
and
even though he proved them to be false, was convicted and deposed of those
crimes. Let's not forget that ideas of "justice" in the ancient world are
not the ideas of "justice" that we have.
Ted Mayes [email-masked]
======================================================
Date:         Fri, 2 Feb 1996 00:45:53 -0800
From: John Servais <[email-masked]>
Subject: ltant: Re: Hypatia
To: Multiple recipients of list LT-ANTIQ
OK, tmayes, this can get involved and irrelevant very quickly, but I'll
follow you for the moment.  If others want this discussion carried to
private mail then I will certainly do that.  I have already replied
privately to others.
>John Servais sees the murder of Hypatia as sign of Christian hypocrisy,
if
>Christianity is a religion of "love and brotherhood." 1)One could say
that
>the exception proves the rule - there is one pagan martyr, killed by a
mob,
>for reasons that seem to be murky at best. True that one murder (and
others
>committed by those who claim to be Christian) should not have happened,
but
>does that then mean that paganism is now equal to the moral stature of
>Christianity? Some Christian fanatics killed a pagan (which, of course,
Stop.  I did not suggest that paganism is now equal to ... Christianity.
You are taking my remarks beyond what I said so you can follow with:
>should
>not have happened). Shall we then compare that with the hundreds and
>thousands of Christian martyrs sent to death, the mines, or torture, by
good,
>responsible, civic-minded pagans, because of their belief in a crucified
Jew?
OK, that is a very emotion loaded statement that suggests something that
is not true.  Most people sent to the "mines", etc. were not sent simply
because of the tenents of their faith.  That statement by you has been
carefully disected and refuted by many scholars over the last couple
hundred years.  Politics and power were more at work than religion.
There is no space here for me to refute it.  But for you to misstate my
conclusion in order to insert this emotion choked and highly distorted
statement is, in my experience, the usual response of Christian
apologists.  A lot of crimes have been committed over the centuries.
Does that excuse crime?  Let us stick to the issue.
>2) The murder was committed "with the approval if not the blessing of the
>patriarch of Alexandria." That certainly was the accusation of anti-
>Alexandrian apologists, but an accusation does not constitute proof. I
>believe that Athanasius was also accused of a number of horrific crimes,
and
>even though he proved them to be false, was convicted and deposed of
those
>crimes. Let's not forget that ideas of "justice" in the ancient world are
>not the ideas of "justice" that we have.
Do you deny that Cyril was a willing participant in the murder of
Hypatia?  You don't expose yourself by taking a stand here - you merely
try to cast doubt on others.  Take a stand. It is not a question of
"proof".  It is a question of what our evidence suggests happened.
Athanasius is not a subject of this narrow question.  I did not suggest
that the concept of justice is a fixed or absolute idea - why do you
imply that I did?  Are you suggesting that the murder of Hypatia can be
understood in terms of the concept of justice prevelant in Christian
communities in the early 400s?  Just what are you trying to refute with
item 2)??  You question and you imply, but you do not refute.
It seems amazing how some issues - no matter how old or no longer
relevant - are still hot issues.  I am a participant.  The Hypatia issue
has emotions all over it, making a  discussion of it almost impossible.
I went too far suggesting that her murder "exposed as hypocricy" the
Christian claim to be a religion of love and brotherhood.  And Tmayes
seems to me to be ducking the issues at every step, trying to draw the
subject to crimes committed against Christians.  There are some real
historical questions associated with the Hypatia issue.  I hope we can
address them directly with what facts and evidence we possess from the
past.
John Servais                             NorthWest House
======================================================
Date:         Thu, 1 Feb 1996 23:26:19 -0500
From: Richard Landes <[email-masked]>
Subject: ltant: Re: query on Egypt c. 600
To: Multiple recipients of list LT-ANTIQ
i didn't mean to start a fight, but can't always resist.
On Thu, 1 Feb 1996, Ted Mayes wrote:
> rlandes was concerned that the lynching of a pagan student was a
'counter'
> to the murder of Hypatia - I believe that Marrou was not trying to
"counter"
> a murder by balancing it with another murder, but merely pointing out
that
> fanaticism, of many shades and varieties, was endemic in Alexandria.
i am suspicious of the use of "merely" here, there is, i suspect, a
strong element of apologetic here, whether one of "counters" or of
"tempers". (see below)
> rlandes also suggests that testimony from a Christian patriarch is
suspect
> when speaking about pagan problems, but that the evidence of the
Hypatia's
> murder, coming from the "perps" is definitive. I have to check my notes
on
> this, but I didn't understand that the "perps" had actually written a
> confession.
please do check your notes. this is not my field, and i was shooting from
the fingertip. i wouldn't expect a confession. my guess is that the
perps, if they wrote about it at all, probably thought they were doing
God's work.
> Perhaps rlandes is just more trusting of his sources than I am.
ouch. (see below)
> I'm not aware off hand of an Alexandrian historical source on the
matter,
> but perhaps rlandes is content with the historical witness of those who
in
> many instances were anti-Alexandrian.
apparently, if we are to believe Marrou, with good reason.
> John Servais sees the murder of Hypatia as sign of Christian hypocrisy,
if
> Christianity is a religion of "love and brotherhood." 1)One could say
that
> the exception proves the rule - there is one pagan martyr, killed by a
mob,
> for reasons that seem to be murky at best.
one cd say "murky at best" for the pagan attacks on Christians too, no?
> True that one murder (and others
> committed by those who claim to be Christian) should not have happened,
but
> does that then mean that paganism is now equal to the moral stature of
> Christianity?
is this apologetic?  i don't think anyone is trying to "resurrect" the
moral virtue of pagans in late antiquity.
> Some Christian fanatics killed a pagan (which, of course, should
> not have happened). Shall we then compare that with the hundreds and
> thousands of Christian martyrs sent to death, the mines, or torture, by
good,
> responsible, civic-minded pagans, because of their belief in a crucified
Jew?
what is/are your source/s for "hundreds and thousands" sent to death,
mines,
torture? you seem awfully trusting here. is there not a school that puts
the numbers in the dozens to hundreds?
> 2) The murder was committed "with the approval if not the blessing of
the
> patriarch of Alexandria." That certainly was the accusation of anti-
> Alexandrian apologists, but an accusation does not constitute proof. I
> believe that Athanasius was also accused of a number of horrific crimes,
and
> even though he proved them to be false,
what is your source here? are you stating this as a fact, or as your
conviction?
> was convicted and deposed for those
> crimes. Let's not forget that ideas of "justice" in the ancient world
are
> not the ideas of "justice" that we have.
what do you mean by this last remark?  as far as i know, the ideas of
justice that we find in the Bible, Christian and Hebrew, are fairly close
to our own current ideals.
rlandes
======================================================
Date:         Fri, 2 Feb 1996 09:03:15 -0800
From: John Servais <[email-masked]>
Subject: ltant: Re: Hypatia
To: Multiple recipients of list LT-ANTIQ
I agree, and for my part will pursue this issue privately.  I've no
desire to offend.  And this mailing list is far too enjoyable to risk
hurting it.  In the last para of my previous post I tried to back up a
bit.  My apologies to anyone my comments may have offended.  I welcome
any private email on the subject.
John Servais
======================================================
Date:         Fri, 2 Feb 1996 09:49:35 -0500
From: "Timothy M. Teeter" <[email-masked]>
Subject: ltant: Re: Hypatia
To: Multiple recipients of list LT-ANTIQ
I recently got involved in a discussion on a religio-historical matter
(the
alleged marriage of Jesus) that very nearly exploded and destroyed another
list.  I would hate to see the same happen here.
If we're going to discuss the murder of Hypatia (a legitimate question),
then let us do so dispassionately.  It is absurd to think that the action
of an Alexandrian mob 1500 years ago says anything directly about the
truth
or untruth of the Christian religion, and it is asurd to engage in some
sort of tit-for-tat game of whose side has the most blood on its hands.
Surely it is no secret by now that terrible things have been, and continue
to be, done in the name of religion.  Whether or not such things tell us
anything about the truth of a religious claim is an interesting question,
but one that is best pursued elsewhere.
Tim Teeter
======================================================
Date:         Sat, 3 Feb 1996 17:03:20 -0500
From: "p.d. snider" <[email-masked]>
Subject: ltant: Re: Flames all over: library, Arabs, etc
To: Multiple recipients of list LT-ANTIQ
   I don't seem to have seen the beginning of this thread, so I'll
apologize if I make a point that has been made before. But, something has
struck me both within this post and in other similar postings intending
to correct the assumption that European civilization is wholly based upon
Christian intellectual endeavor. I would not ever attempt to minimize the
critical role that Islam has played in the preservation of elements of
Greek philosophy and science. Any review of the evidence would decisively
refute any contention. However, I find it interesting how such postings
ignore other areas of Greek philosophy, and, more importantly,
literature, which we know were not transmitted through Islam, but rather
by, often fugitive, Byzantine scholars who began to show up in Italy in
the fourteenth century. I don't have my books at hand right now to give
many details, but I do recall the first lecturer in Greek at Florence was
a Byzantine refugee. To the best of my knowledge, there is no evidence to
suggest that the Arabs transmitted any other texts but Aristotle among
the philosophers and some natural philosophers. So, where did our
surviving Greek canon come from? Partly from the Crusaders, but mostly
from our refugee Byzantine scholars. Without them, we would have
virtually no Greek literature, or at any rate, nowhere near the variety
we have now
   Okay, sorry for the rant. Keep in mind, I do agree with this poster's
last  comments about recognizing that our concept of Europe has to
understood as a patchwork of various civilizations. I would emend his
identification as Christians fostering the illusion of a single influence
model. It might be better to suggest that this is primarily an argument
of Westerners, who have historically had problems recognizing its
cultural debts to non-Western civilizations like Islam and, like the
Byzantines.
======================================================
Date:         Sat, 3 Feb 1996 11:54:18 +0100
From: Serge Pahaut <[email-masked]>
Subject: ltant: Flames all over: library, Arabs, etc
To: Multiple recipients of list LT-ANTIQ
Thanks to Ted Mayes for giving useful precisions.
I hope he will accept the following supracommentaries, I assume he could
probably confirm, and forgive the excess.
I do think our Internet feast will have an end, as had the library of
Alexandry.
But this is an approximative, global end.
Let us proceed to local flaming.
1) The library did not burn "just after" the killing of Hypatia.
I know of only one date for the latter event, namely 415. A bit far from
"circa 452 AD".
more flaming :
2) As developed in a lot of papers,
the burning of Alexandria library is largely a literary theme, which
contaminated some historiographical conventions, such as the "destruction"
by the ill-famed calife, using his criterium: "if the books are
verisimilar
to the Quran, we do not need them; if they are not, they are bad books".
Fact is that the Arabs did read greek philosophy and science -through
various
ways, including christian ones. Western christian empire did not at all.
"European" we are all, including Arabs. They were only better European,
as heirs of greek antiquity (among others).
still more flaming :
3)  Hypatia was "apparently" murdered in 415.  Conspicuous is the silence
of
local sources; and accordingly we do not know much. For other philosophers
of late
alexandrian antiquity, we are not even sure whether they were Pagans or
Christians.
Police regulations had it that a pagan philosopher was not a ""normal
being"".
(next flame please)
4) As we all know, pagan antiquity was not a garden of roses for
everybody.
But could please christian intellectuals first correct the global scenario
they have suggested in almost all their books.
I assume Pr. Henri-Irenee Marrou was cautious about this sensitive
period of inchoative and brutal domination by one religion. Fourth and
fifth centuries
were definitely not times of benign compassion. "Christian" times were
very
hard in local police offices. Is martyrdom still an exclusivity?
Is not fanaticism a strategy for exclusivity? What about a group saying it
is
prosecuted, and winning the game in so dubious conditions?
What is at stake is not at all assessing the degree of
 fanaticism of certain groups vs. others.
When will christians stop pretending having
inaugurated an era of christian civilisation in the sense we all define it
now:
man-woman equality, active compassion, etc. To say the truth, these
moral caracteristics were common acquisitions. So-called christian
civilisa-
tion
is a common creation of local populations, including Jews, Arabs, etc.
 if christians do put their hope in Christ alone,
 they will appear more miserable according to their human fellows.
(Paul, Cor. 15:19, my translation).
(stop flaming mode)
To put it plainly: I cannot possibly conceive any more dangerous legend
than the one
pretending christians did receive an ancient civilisation Moslems did not.
Europe was a collective endeavour. It still is. As attested by the
Cyropaedia,
the LXX, the love story of Julius Caesar with Cleopatra etc, a lot of
tentatives do attest the destiny of antiquity was not to be the exclusive
heritage
of western atlantic Europe or, worse, "western civilisation".
We do not know what the futur will be. Time to think about.
Serge PAHAUT
Universite' Libre de Bruxelles (CP 231)
======================================================
Date:         Sat, 3 Feb 1996 19:41:26 -0600
From: Ted Mayes <[email-masked]>
Subject: ltant: Re: Hypatia
To: Multiple recipients of list LT-ANTIQ
To all list members - my most sincere apologies if my words were taken as
a flame. They were not meant to be.
To rlandes and John Servais especially, my apologies for any offense I
have
caused you - now that Ambrose has rebuked Theodosius, I'll have to let
some
time pass before I write to make sure that I don't hurt anyone.
To Serge Pahaut, I was not trying to imply that Christians had received an
an
ancient civilization and the Moslems had not. I know some things about pre-

Moslem Egypt, very little about post-Moslem Egypt.  Please feel free, if
you have the knowledge to share it with me privately, or with the list in
general. I think the last thing I said was that El-Abadi [sp?] said the
story
of the Caliph burning the Library was an invention - and personally I
think
he's probably right - without an effort to hang on to knowledge and books,
it
disappears all too fast. The chances are that the Library had disappeared
in
the years before the Arab conquest of Egypt.
As for Hypatia, Socrates Scholasticus (*HE*, VII, 15) says that "some" of
the
Christian populace, led by "a reader named Peter", ambushed Hypatia,
killed,
dismembered her, and burnt her remains. He then goes on to say "This
affair
brought not the least opprobium, not only upon Cyril, but also upon the
whole
 Alexandrian church. And surely nothing can be farther from the spirit of
Christianity than the allowance of massacres, fights, and transactions of
that sort."
Socrates apparently knew about this because he had been educated by two
pagan priests/grammarians (Helladius and Ammonius) who fled Alexandria
during/
after the Christian/pagan riots of 389AD. The other two original sources
about the incident are from the letters of Synesius and Philostorgius'
histo-
ry.
Those two I haven't read yet - if anyone has, perhaps they could put on
the
list the information that those sources have.
One of the curious things to me, especially since Socrates was a lawyer,
was
the lack of any mention of what happened to "Peter" and the others who
murdered Hypatia. It is even more curious, since in the previous chapter,
Socrates is careful to mention that a monk (Ammonius) who threw a stone at
the
prefect and hit him, was publicly tortured to death for his assault on the
prefect. But no mention is made of what happened to the murderers of
Hypatia.
Can anyone else out there clarify this a little?
   Ted Mayes [email-masked]
======================================================
Date:         Sun, 4 Feb 1996 01:25:31 -0500
From: Richard Landes <[email-masked]>
Subject: ltant: Re: Hypatia
To: Multiple recipients of list LT-ANTIQ
you caused me no offense. i personally think people are too sensitive
about supposed flames. what we consider a flame wd be considered polite at
most of the church councils of the era we're discussing, not to mention a
medieval dispute. say what you think as long as you're willing to hear how
others respond. the fact is that, willy nilly, we all have our own blind
spots, soft spots and private wars with our historical subjects, and the
only way to iron them out is to voice them.  i personally think that the
effort to void historical analysis of value judgments has impoverished it
immensely, especially for the period we're talking about.  this doesn't
mean
we have to carry ours back there (altho, again, it's hard not to), but it
does mean we have to pay attention to the value judgments of those we are
dealing with.  the "scientific" effort to back away from the kinds of
polemics that the older Protestant-Catholic debates on the coming of
Constantine generated, has produced, imho, a rather pale reconstruction,
with many of the most impt currents of action and reaction lost in the
process.
> As for Hypatia, Socrates Scholasticus (*HE*, VII, 15) says that "some"
of
the
> Christian populace, led by "a reader named Peter", ambushed Hypatia,
killed,
> dismembered her, and burnt her remains. He then goes on to say "This
affair
> brought not the least opprobium, not only upon Cyril, but also upon the
whole
>  Alexandrian church. And surely nothing can be farther from the spirit
of
> Christianity than the allowance of massacres, fights, and transactions
of
> that sort."
he's surely not the only one viewing this matter in this fashion. what
are Peter and his boys thinking? what is Cyril saying to his critics? to
Peter? to himself?
> One of the curious things to me, especially since Socrates was a lawyer,
was
> the lack of any mention of what happened to "Peter" and the others who
> murdered Hypatia. It is even more curious, since in the previous
chapter,
> Socrates is careful to mention that a monk (Ammonius) who threw a stone
at
the
> prefect and hit him, was publicly tortured to death for his assault on
the
> prefect. But no mention is made of what happened to the murderers of
Hypa-
tia.
> Can anyone else out there clarify this a little?
sounds like no one got punished. after all a pagan woman probably doesn't
have the same wergeld that a Christian (?) prefect did.
rlandes
======================================================
Date:         Sun, 4 Feb 1996 06:23:43 -0600
From: Ted Mayes <[email-masked]>
Subject: ltant: Re: Hypatia
To: Multiple recipients of list LT-ANTIQ
Richard,
   It could be that a woman was considered less valuable than a man
in the ancient world. However, the thing that makes me wonder about that
is
that the supposed "reason" behind the murder of Hypatia was that she was
such a "good friend" of the prefect Orestes that she was held to be the
reason why Orestes refused to be reconciled to Cyril. According to
Socrates,
Cyril, at the urging of the other clergy members, went out of his way
(though
how far out of his way is a little hard to judge at this time) to try and
patch things up with Orestes. Plus there's the fact that Hypatia occupied
a
rather unique position - the only woman in recorded history who officially
occupied a chair of philosophy at the Museum of Alexandria. Considering
her
unique position/qualifications, her supposed closeness to the prefect who
was quarreling with Cyril, and the ghastly mode of death, it still seems a
little strange that Socrates doesn't mention what happened to her
murderers.
   Ted Mayes [email-masked]
======================================================
Date:         Sun, 4 Feb 1996 16:58:04 -0500
From: "p.d. snider" <[email-masked]>
Subject: ltant: Re: Hypatia
To: Multiple recipients of list LT-ANTIQ
Keeping in mind that I am by no means a specialist in the transmission=
of Greek literature to the West, whether through Islam, Italy or
wherever, I would like to ask the question what works exactly, other than=
Aristotle and some natural philosophers, were transmitted through Islam?
To the best of my knowledge, based on an admittedly cursory survey done
some years ago in an undergrad. course, Islamic scholars were simply
uninterested in the rest of the corpus of Greek literature. Is this
assumption.
 As for circumscribing the arab contribution to the West in only natural=
philosophy, I was not trying to imply such a thing. I was arguing that
transmission of Greek literature is based on these areas, as well as
philosophy, especially logic. I recognize Islamic influence on art and,
in some areas, literature. I also recognize that there are probably areas=
which I do not realize are influenced by Islam. However, my question is
how far the 'classical' tradition was transmitted through Islam.
Phil Snider
University of Western Ontario
======================================================
Date:         Sun, 4 Feb 1996 22:29:56 EST
From: Michael Searcy <[email-masked]>
To: Multiple recipients of list LT-ANTIQ
Normally I am a passive reader of this list, however I can't  let this
pass:
>>John Servais sees the murder of Hypatia as sign of Christian hypocrisy
>>Christianity is a religion of "love and brotherhood." 1)One could say
>>the exception proves the rule - there is one pagan martyr, killed by a
>>for reasons that seem to be murky at best. True that one murder (and o
>>committed by those who claim to be Christian) should not have happened
>>does that then mean that paganism is now equal to the moral stature of
>>Christianity? Some Christian fanatics killed a pagan (which, of course
> Stop.  I did not suggest that paganism is now equal to ... Christianity
> You are taking my remarks beyond what I said so you can follow with:
> >should
> >not have happened). Shall we then compare that with the hundreds and
> >thousands of Christian martyrs sent to death, the mines, or torture, b
> >responsible, civic-minded pagans, because of their belief in a crucifi
     A "single" pagan martyr? Paleeze!!!!!!  I assume those 10,000+
invited to a "circus" and then killed on the order of a "Christian"
emperor don't count.  I suppose the thousands slain for refusing to
give up their faith when Tuetonic tribes were "converted" ... at the
point of the sword don't count.
     Christians were persecuted in the first three or four
centuries,  they made up for it in the next three or four.  And
their "christian" charity continued throughout the middle ages
< burning witches, and the those  pagans that managed to survive
until the middle ages ).  The devastation of the native religions of
Europe by the cultural and literal terrorism of the christian religion
and its soldiers is one of the greatest crimes agains humanity ever
perpetuated.  If you don't think this was a cultural terrorist
attack, ask some of the non-christianized Native Americans....
======================================================
Date:         Sun, 4 Feb 1996 19:21:40 +0100
From: Serge Pahaut <[email-masked]>
Subject: ltant: Hypatia
To: Multiple recipients of list LT-ANTIQ
As for what latin Middle Age did receive through arab civilisation,
a lot of publications are available.
 I suggest not to forget history of science.
Also, the fate of islamic scholarship was not only to transmit to
"Europe";
interactions with India and China are also important.
Phil Snider, with good reasons, reminds of contacts Byzance->Italy.
This being the easy way, the peculiar fact is, much came through other
ways.
I would not dare to imply, as he tries, we may circumscribe the arab
contribution to mere transmission of some natural philosophy.
The testimony of Synesius Cyrenensis is important of course, as the
texts that are extant from him are a remarkable example of christian
neo-platonism.
I would not expect too much from him about Hypatia's death.
As for his political correctness, he gave a strong expression to
antisemitism.
Serge PAHAUT
Universite' Libre de Bruxelles (CP 231)
======================================================
Date:         Mon, 5 Feb 1996 10:34:05 -0500
From: Richard Landes <[email-masked]>
Subject: ltant: Re: Hypatia in flames
To: Multiple recipients of list LT-ANTIQ

i was saying earlier that i think much we define too many lively remarks
as flames, but i think this one qualifies.
On Sun, 4 Feb 1996, Michael Searcy wrote:
> Normally I am a passive reader of this list, however I can't  let this
> pass:
>      A "single" pagan martyr? Paleeze!!!!!!  I assume those 10,000+
> invited to a "circus" and then killed on the order of a "Christian"
> emperor don't count.
source?
> I suppose the thousands slain for refusing to
> give up their faith when Tuetonic tribes were "converted" ... at the
> point of the sword don't count.
it is a bit later (just to stick with the context of the post to which
you are replying).
>      Christians were persecuted in the first three or four
> centuries,  they made up for it in the next three or four.  And
> their "christian" charity continued throughout the middle ages
> (burning witches, and the those  pagans that managed to survive
> until the middle ages).
don't forget Jews and "heretics".
> The devastation of the native religions of
> Europe by the cultural and literal terrorism of the christian religion
> and its soldiers is one of the greatest crimes agains humanity ever
> perpetuated.  If you don't think this was a cultural terrorist
> attack, ask some of the non-christianized Native Americans....
there has to be a better way to frame your point.  obviously "Christians",
as Augustine wd say, includes a rather wide-ranging *corpus permixtum*.
so how do we deal with the actions and the arguments of those claiming to
speak in the name of, and through the institutions of, Christians, without
stump speeches in favor of (implicitly romanticized) victims. after all,
the only reason that people get incensed about "Christian" behavior that
is more or less the norm for dominant groups is that Christians profess
something (much) higher.  in context, this is hardly among "the greatest
crimes against humanity ever perpetrated", but one of many forms of
domination, a bizarre and paradoxical one, full of peculiar consequences,
filled with a kind of "good will" rarely evinced by conquerors, well worth
study.  we get nowhere either by engaging in rhetorical overkill, or in
polite discretion.
some questions: how do we treat the obvious contradictions btw Christian
ethics and Christian political behavior once the empire "converts"?  what
modern historian and what contemporary sources handle these issues best in
the opinion of those on the list?  what value can our treatment of these
matters offer us in reconstructing the period in question?
rlandes
======================================================
Date:         Mon, 5 Feb 1996 17:44:26 -0500
From: "Timothy M. Teeter" <[email-masked]>
Subject: ltant: Re: Hypatia in flames
To: Multiple recipients of list LT-ANTIQ
For a dispassionate look at the evidence for a Christian makeover of
society (or lack thereof), see Ramsay MacMullen's article,  "What
difference did Christianity make?" in Historia 35 (sorry, I don't have the
year or page numbers handy).  I believe it may have been anthologized
somewhere as well.  From what I can recall of the article, I'm not sure I
agree with MacMullen, but it should add some depth to the discussion
currently underway on this subject.
Tim Teeter
======================================================
Date:         Mon, 5 Feb 1996 17:28:43 MET
From: Yves Caseau <[email-masked]>
Subject: ltant: Re: Hypatia in flames
To: Multiple recipients of list LT-ANTIQ
A good read on this question is Peter Brown's lecture delivered  at
Cambridge in 1993: "The Limits of Intolerance", in Authority and the
Sacred, Aspects of the Christianization of the Roman World, Cambride
University Press, 1995, pp.29-54.
He shows how easy it is to be taken in by the narrative of Late
Antique historians and authors on intolerance and violence...
Beatrice Caseau
Paris IV/ Institut Catholique de Paris
======================================================
Date:         Tue, 6 Feb 1996 10:30:09 CST
From: "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
Subject: ltant: Re: Hypatia in flames
To: Multiple recipients of list LT-ANTIQ
It seems that some people just are not satisfied with the cliche that
the winners write history. Some may even want us to consider Charlemagne
a religious persecutor on the basis of his Saxon policy. We may even reach
the point of making Augustine the kind of man who pressed for the
religious
persecution of Donatists and Pelagians. One might even ask in class what
did Diocletion, Augustine, and Charlemagne have in common? Discuss. Boy
Alexander starts to look good in perspective on this issue just as 19th
century 'racist' historians used to claim. Oh the study of history is so
confusing how can we have any heroes?
B.Bachrach
======================================================
Date:         Tue, 6 Feb 1996 18:06:39 -0500
From: Greg Rose <[email-masked]>
Subject: ltant: Hypatia in flames
To: Multiple recipients of list LT-ANTIQ
Michael Searcy writes:
>...The devastation of the native religions of
>Europe by the cultural and literal terrorism of the christian religion
>and its soldiers is one of the greatest crimes agains humanity ever
>perpetuated.  If you don't think this was a cultural terrorist
>attack, ask some of the non-christianized Native Americans....
I frankly think this sort of comment trivializes the matters under
discussion.  I don't particularly think that the place of history is
to create heroes or villains.  It is rather the purposes of history
to try to understand events as close to in situ as possible.  From
such a viewpoint the suggestion that executions of pagans among the
Germanic people by Christians was part of a policy of forced
conversion simpliciter is simply nonsense.  A example drawn, perhaps,
from an area a bit removed from this list's central focus is
Charlemagne's policy toward the Saxons, to which Mr. Searcy alludes.
The "conversion" of the Saxons has to be contextualized in Carolingian
politics.  Among the first two initiatives of the sons of Charles Martel
was reestablishment of Frankish hegemony over parts of the Merovingian
kingdom which had slipped away under the latter Merovingians: Aquitania
and Bavaria.  It was in connection with operations against their brother,
Grifo, Dux of the Bavarians, that the first campaigns into Saxony were
launched in 743, 744, and 747 (note that Grifo took refuge among the
Saxons under pressure from Pippin and Carloman and there are hints of
diplomatic and, perhaps, military machinations between the Bavarians and
the Saxons -- although all of this comes from Frankish sources, so obvious
biases may be present).  Campaigns were continued by Pippin in 753 and
758,
probably mopping up resistance along the border.
Second, as Tim Reuter ably pointed out in his article in the
*Charlemagne's
Heir* volume and his TRHS piece, the Carolingian political economy appears
to have been significantly based on accumulation of wealth by military
expansion abroad and redistribution of this wealth by the Carolingians
to their followers.  It was probably in this context that Charlemagne
launched his first campaign into Saxony to raid, and raze, the pagan
shrine at Irminsul in 772.  The ARF comments on the particularly rich
booty
this operation netted.  It is likely that the Saxon incursions into
Francia
in 773 were a response, but they occurred while Charlemagne was
campaigning
against the Lombards in Italy and forced a major redeployment of his army
in the following year.  The results were inconclusive.  In 775 Charlemagne
resolved to crush the Saxons, but was almost immediately distracted by
a Lombard rebellion.  Again, Charlemagne was forced to redeploy to Italy,
and upon reaching Italy was greeted with another Saxon rebellion.  It
is this dynamic which we see time and time again -- Saxon military threats
whenever the Carolingian army is campaigning elsewhere, forcing costly
and difficult redeployments -- which accounts for some of intensity of
the Frankish response to the Saxons.  By 776 Charlemagne had forced a
submission of the main Saxon forces and had taken hostages, oaths of
fidelity, promises to convert, etc.  Then as soon as he began a campaign
in Spain, the Saxons rebelled in 778, forcing yet again another campaign
in Saxony in 779.  The Frankish sources portray the relationship as
Frankish acceptance of Saxon pledges followed by Saxon perfidy -- they
certainly suggest a rather high level of frustration among the Franks at
the inability to put the Saxon affair to a definitive end.  In 782,
while he prepared a campaign against the Slavs, Charlemagne was against
faced with a Saxon rebellion.  The disasterous defeat of the missi Adalgis
and Gailo at the Suentel Mountains prompted Charlemagne's direct
intervention.
The ARF's account of the execution of 4,500 rebels comes in the aftermath
of this intervention.  I think this account has to be further
contextualized
by three factors: (1) the number of executions is likely to be exaggerated
--
round numbers of this sort more commonly in the Annals mean "a lot of
them";
(2) the Slav menace to the eastern Frankish border was a growing concern
(particularly in light of deteriorating relations with the Eastern Empire)
and the possibility of Slav/Saxon cooperation was a serious threat, and
(3) Tassilo and his followers had been mooting rebellion since 780 -- a
fullscale Bavarian rebellion in concert with the Saxons would have utterly
destabilized the Frankish eastern frontier.  The principal evidence for
a "massacre" of Saxons (as opposed to large numbers of Saxons killed in
battle) locates the event in the context of (1) revenge for the deaths of
a large number of Frankish nobles (the ARF truly cringes at the losses) at
Suentel Mountains, (2) repeated Saxon refusal to abide by Frankish-imposed
peace terms, (3) a history of the Saxons taking advantage of Frankish
attentions elsewhere on the their borders to make considerable trouble
for the Frank, and (4) genuine foreign perils which could easily take
advantage of Francia's Saxon troubles.  In this circumstance I think that
religion played some role, but by no means the primary role in the
brutality
of Frankish repression of the Saxon rebellions.
   The difficulty of juxtaposing the ARF account with the Capitulatio
de Partibus Saxoniae, and it is only that juxtaposition which leads to an
impression of severe, brutal conversion of the Saxons, is our inability to
date the capitulary's issue more precisely than 775-790.  I'm inclined to
date it around 780 (possibly at the assembly at the confluence of the Ohre
and Elbe where Charlemagne is said to have "set Saxon affairs aright"),
but that is highly speculative.  It seems to me to be a document redolent
with frustration at the inability of the Franks to permanently impose
their hegemony over the Saxons.  Even at that, the document isn't
entirely,
nor even primarily, religious in its concerns with the Saxons.  C.1 does
begin with the resolution "of all in order that the churches of Christ,
which
now are being erected in Saxony and consecrated to God, might have not
less
honor, but more and superior honor than the emptiness of idols."  C.2 reas-
serts
the right of sanctuary and doesn't seeem particularly Saxon-related.
C.3 proscribes the violent despoiling or burning of a church as a capital
crime.  C.4 proclaims contumacious disregard for the Lenten fast to be a
capital crime, but allows dispensation by a priest for necessity as an
excuse.  C.5 makes the murder of a bishop, priest or deacon a capital
offense.  C.6 prohibits pagan burnt sacrifice under pain of death
(although,
as we shall see, other pagan rituals are less drastically dealt with).
C.7 prohibits cremation of the dead.  C.8 makes it a capital crime for
anyone who refuses to be baptized to conceal himself among the Saxon
people.
C.9 prohibits human sacrifice as a capital crime.  C.10 makes conspiracy
with pagans against the Christian people or conspiracy against the king
a capital offense.  C.11 reasserts that manifest infidelity against the
king is a captial crime.  C.12 prescribes the death penalty for anyone
kidnapping the son of his lord.  C.13 does likewise for anyone who kills
his lord (domnus vel domina).  C.14 amnesties anyone guilty under the
previously-described capitularies who presents himself to a priest,
confesses and accepts penance, the testimony of the priest excusing the
penitent from any capital penalty.  C.15-17 establishes church endowments
and enforces tithing on royal income from Saxon lands and courts and
imposes it on all inhabitants of Saxony.  C.18 orders observation of the
sabbath and holy days.  C19. prescribes fines for refusing to allow a
child to be baptized (120 solidi for nobles, 60 for freemen, and 30 for
others).  C.20 imposes fines for contracting a prohibited marriage (60
solidi for nobles, 30 for freemen, and 15 for others).  C.21 imposes fines
for making offerings to springs, woods or groves at the same tripartite
rates as C.20.  C.22 orders burial in cemeteries rather than tumuli.
C.23 cryptically announces that "we have resolved to give diviners and
soothsayers to the church and priests."  C.24-34 are mainly
administrative,
largely concerned with establishing comital government over Saxon
territory.
   Note that the death penalty is not imposed in the Capitulatio de
Partibus Saxoniae for any offense which had not long been condemned in
strikingly similar terms by Church councils.  Furthermore, the concern
is at least as much for prohibition of offenses against the crown and
lordship -- the heart and soul of rebellion -- as for proscription of
pagan practices.  In short, it looks to me like forced conversion was a
policy of last resort after other measures had repeatedly failed and
that the implied brutality had more to do with frustration at the
repeated failures than any intrinsically "Christian" brutality to pagans.
   It also seems reasonable to me that, if such a policy had been
followed in detail against the Saxons, we would not have seen recurrent
Saxon
rebellions in 784, 793, 795 and 798.  These suggest that the Frankish
I think that the imposition of Frankish rule in Saxony was a long,
sometimes
intensely bloody process, a process in which religion played a significant
role, but not to the exclusion of economic, political, military, and
emotive factors (e.g., revenge and retribution).  It is clear that it was
not a matter simply of Christian Franks against pagan Saxons, because
there
is clearly evidence of Frankish success in playing factions of the Saxons
off against each other.  Furthermore, there is good evidence that Frankish
kings reacted to rebellion with savage brutality (e.g., against Hardrad
in 795, against Pippin the Hunchback in 792, against Bernard of Italy in
817).  Louis the Pious's reputation for piety rests in part on his
repentance of the brutality against Bernard and his readiness to forgive
those who rebelled against him (I rather suspect that Lothar would have
enjoyed Pepin the Hunchback's fate if he had been Charlemagne's son, but
that
is purely speculation) -- his restraint was *exceptional* in  Frankish
eyes.  I'm not certain how much we should attribute to strictly religious
causes when the Frankish response to rebellion was intrinsically brutal.
Greg Rose
Ole Miss
======================================================
Date:         Thu, 8 Feb 1996 16:26:57 -0500
From: "Timothy M. Teeter" <[email-masked]>
Subject: ltant: Re: Martyrs, again
To: Multiple recipients of list LT-ANTIQ
>Can you call racism and bigotry...the refusal to accept anything that
>deviates from the "norm" ...mere "judicious rejection"?  No?  I suppose I
>must be dealing with "prejudiced hate" then.
>Chantelle Warner
>Ball State University
I am sorry, but you only add to the confusion.  I was under the impression
that this discussion was *not* about refusing to accept *anything* that
deviates from the "norm," but the refusal to accept people with whom one
differs on matters of religion, itself something about which it is not
always so easy to determine a "norm."  That such a refusal can be a matter
of prejudice I certainly understand, and that it can be an excuse or cover
for various forms of hate (racist or otherwise) no one can deny, but it
does not follow that all the instances of martyrdom alluded to in the
course of this discussion are entirely motivated by such hate.  I consider
it perfectly possible for a Roman to have had a fairly sophisticated
understanding of Christianity and to either order or applaud the execution
of Christians on perfectly rational grounds, even if the opportunity for
doing so is only offered by mob actions.  His actions would not be those
of
"prejudiced hate" at all.  Equally, Christians have been (sadly) capable
of
rationalizing violence;  if Cyril did approve the mob's murder of Hypatia,
it was surely not for any lack of understanding of neo-Platonism.  On the
contrary, it was because he did understand what Hypatia represented that
he
approved of her death.
Tim Teeter
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                     Late Antiquity Newsletter 1.1 (1996)
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