..inte: Betty Gould Spitalny ..intr: Larry Spitalny ..da: 1986 ..cp: 1993.005.006 Betty Spitalny and prize bull, 1943 ..ca: ..ftxt: An Interview With Betty Gould Spitalny April 23, 1986 Transcriptionist: Carol Ruttan Interviewer: Larry Spitalny (Log at end of transcript) Betty Gould Spitalny Interview SPITALNY: This is the 23rd of April, 1986, Passover evening, and we are going to interview the famous Betty Fay Becker Spitalny Gould. Now, mother, I'm just going to ask you some questions about your life and your family history. You can just tell us anything you like. Why don't you start off by telling us about your parents, something about their names, where they came from. GOULD: Well, to begin with, what I know about my parents' life history is that my mother came from Odessa and my father came from Alsace Lorraine. My father became an orphan when he was 12 years old. SPITALNY: What was his name? GOULD: Louis Becker. SPITALNY: Louis Aaron Becker? GOULD: Louis Aaron Becker. He went to live with his uncle in Alsace Lorraine. SPITALNY: Do you know what city? GOULD: I don't know. SPITALNY: What year was he born? GOULD: I don't know. SPITALNY: What year did he pass away? GOULD: He passed away in 1920 and he was 57 years old. SPITALNY: So he was born in 1866. GOULD: I don't know when he was born. SPITALNY: So he was born in France, because Alsace Lorraine became part of Germany in 1972. GOULD: Yes, he spoke German, he didn't speak French. SPITALNY: So, he was born when it was part of France. GOULD: I guess it was. Well, his uncle had a big department store and he worked for his uncle. His uncle was going to have a big sale, so he gave him $10,000 to go to Russia and buy merchandise for the sale. My father had a sister living there. She was married to a very, very religious man. When my father went to visit his sister, my mother was visiting her because they were girlhood friends. My father took one look at my mother and fell madly in love with her. He took her out that night and he forgot about going back to his uncle's home. He forgot about buying the merchandise, he forgot about everything, and made my mother promise she would marry him. He wouldn't leave until she did. He was only 18 years old. SPITALNY: Was your father's family originally from Russia before they went to France? GOULD: No, he was born in France. SPITALNY: How about his father? GOULD: That I don't know. I don't know anything about my great-grandparents. So, he got married. When he came back his uncle was terribly disappointed, because he had a red-headed beautiful niece that he wanted my father to marry and he was going to turn the business over to my father. But when he married my mother, he told him to leave and he didn't want to see him again. SPITALNY: Did your mother go back to France with him? GOULD: No. He went by himself. That's the story that my mother told me. I don't know anything else. Anyway, they got married and what happened after that, I don't know. I used to sit on my father's lap and say to him, "Tell me stories about your life." This is what he told me. When Mother and I and Dad used to go to visit my aunt who lived in Seattle - we were living in Seattle then - and I was just a little girl, I'll never forget, I was afraid to visit my aunt, because this uncle of mine was her second husband, if I remember, because I had one cousin from ... SPITALNY: Wait a minute. Let's get back to -- after your mother and father got married -- GOULD: They went to Odessa to marry. SPITALNY: To Odessa. Did he speak Russian? GOULD: I don't know if he did or not. That I don't know. So, when I used to go visit my Tante - we used to call her Tante, she always used to say, "Now, don't talk loud. Be quiet. Just be still." When I passed the room where he would study - he studied the Torah all the time. He was a very religious man. He would never come out until he was ready to eat. That was the only time I ever saw him was when he would come out to sit down to eat. That's all I remember about my father's life. SPITALNY: What about your mother? GOULD: I don't know anything about my mother's life. Her father -- SPITALNY: What was her father's name? GOULD: I don't know. SPITALNY: Her maiden name was Levine? GOULD: Levine, yes. My mother told me that her father was a very prominent architect and builder. He was asked one time to give up his religion, that if he would give up his religion they would make him one of the biggest architects in Russia and he wouldn't do it. SPITALNY: So, they were married what year? GOULD: My mother and father were married in 1888. Rose was born in 1889. That's how I know. Rose is my older sister. SPITALNY: What year did they come to the United States? GOULD: That I don't know. SPITALNY: Approximately 1904? GOULD: I don't really know. SPITALNY: How long were they here before you were born? GOULD: I don't know. SPITALNY: Was Harry born in Europe? GOULD: I really don't know if he was or not. I know Rosie was and Nathan was. SPITALNY: Blanche was, too. GOULD: I don't know. SPITALNY: Blanche was. GOULD: That I don't know. As a little girl I never asked. I took it for granted they were all born in the United States, because I didn't know about Russia or anything like that. SPITALNY: What year was Blanche born? 1898? GOULD: I don't know. Maybe, I don't know. She is going to be 88, I think, next September. SPITALNY: So, you were born in 1905. GOULD: Yes. SPITALNY: And you were born in what city? GOULD: In New York. SPITALNY: In New York City? GOULD: Yes. SPITALNY: But your family lived in Newark, didn't they? GOULD: No. My mother's sisters lived in Newark. SPITALNY: But you lived in New York City? GOULD: New York. I don't think my father and mother lived in New York too long, because they moved to Seattle when I was a baby. SPITALNY: So they stayed in New York for __________________. GOULD: Yes. SPITALNY: And you were raised in Seattle? GOULD: I think they went to New York because of my mother's sister. SPITALNY: Do you have any other relatives in Russia? GOULD: No. My grandfather, my mother's father, fell in the river. They were building a big bridge. He was angry at one of the men that wasn't doing things right and he was climbing up the ladder to go up and show him. He slipped and fell in the water. Mother told me he was in the water for eight hours before they could take him out. He lived just a few days and died. He left my grandmother - she was 35 or 38 years old - with eight children that she had to raise herself. SPITALNY: Was your mother the oldest? GOULD: No. Let's see. I think my aunt in New York was older than my mother. I think my mother was the baby, if I'm not mistaken. SPITALNY: How is cousin Paula related? GOULD: Paula was related on my mother's side. SPITALNY: Was she your mother's brother's daughter? GOULD: No. I don't remember. I really don't remember. Her name was Levine, too, maybe so. My mother had a brother who was quite artistic. He used to make toys. He had a toy factory -- SPITALNY: Where? GOULD: In Russia -- and used to design toys. That's all I know about that. SPITALNY: What was Seattle like when you were growing up? GOULD: All I know is I went to school there. I went to grammar school there and it was very cold at times. The snow was very deep and very cold. SPITALNY: They had horse-drawn -- GOULD: No. SPITALNY: Streetcars? Electric streetcars? GOULD: I think so. SPITALNY: Do you remember the streetcars? GOULD: No, I don't know. SPITALNY: They had cars or horse-drawn buggies? GOULD: No, they didn't have horse-drawn -- that was way before my time. SPITALNY: Really? GOULD: I'll never forget my brother, Nathan, bought a Ford. That was the first time we had a car. Those Fords didn't have windows and in order to prevent the cold air from coming in, they had to attach the very heavy -- SPITALNY: Plexiglass? Microglass? GOULD: Yes, microglass. They attached it to the sides of the -- SPITALNY: Isinglass, that's what it was. GOULD: I guess it was isinglass, yes. We had it attached to the window. SPITALNY: But, you don't remember horse and buggy? GOULD: No. There were no horses and buggies in my time. I don't think so. SPITALNY: Tell us what happened during your childhood. GOULD: I had a very happy childhood. I was the youngest of five children. SPITALNY: What was your mother's name? GOULD: Anna Levine. My father never changed his name. That was his name all the time. SPITALNY: And you had four brothers and sisters. What were their names? GOULD: I had two brothers and two sisters. My oldest brother's name was Nathan. My younger brother's name was Harry. My oldest sister was Rose. SPITALNY: She was the oldest child. GOULD: Yes. Then there was Blanche and myself. Although my mother had eight children. SPITALNY: Harry was between you and Blanche. GOULD: Harry was between -- we had another sister that mother said passed away. He was between Blanche and Harry - I mean Harry was between -- SPITALNY: But the order was Rose, Nathan, Blanche, Harry and you. Is that correct? GOULD: Yes. That's right. But there were three children in between. I was the baby. I was the last one. SPITALNY: What was Nathan like? GOULD: Nathan was a handsome, wonderful man. He was just like a father to me. SPITALNY: How much older was he than you? GOULD: Oh, my gosh, he was second oldest. I don't know how old he was. SPITALNY: Approximately? GOULD: I don't know. I can't tell. SPITALNY: Well, Rose was born in 1889, so Nathan was probably born in 1890. GOULD: I don't even know how many years apart they were. I'm terrible about my family, I don't know. I never asked questions. SPITALNY: Tell us about Rose. GOULD: I don't know anything about Rose until she came to the United States. SPITALNY: She came to the United States when? Do you remember? GOULD: No, I was a little girl. SPITALNY: Did she come directly to Seattle? GOULD: Yes. I think so. Edith was born in Russia. Edith was five years old when she came. SPITALNY: So, you were about six years old. So, she came about 1911. GOULD: I was just a little girl. I don't know when she came. SPITALNY: Well, Edith is four years younger than you. So, if she was five ... GOULD: Edith, I think, was just a baby when she came. SPITALNY: You said she was four years old. GOULD: She was four years younger than I am. SPITALNY: And how old was she when she came to this country? GOULD: Edith? She was just a baby, a little girl. SPITALNY: How old? GOULD: I think two or three years old. SPITALNY: Say she was three years old. That makes you seven. So they came about 1912. Is that right? GOULD: I don't know. If you ask me for dates, I can't tell you. I don't know. SPITALNY: Tell us about what happened when they came here. Did they have to change all their money? She was obviously married in Europe. GOULD: Oh, yes. SPITALNY: What was her maiden name? GOULD: LeFonte. SPITALNY: Did they change all their gold to paper money? GOULD: You ask me something that I will never know because I was too young to understand. SPITALNY: I thought you had heard the story - I have. GOULD: I've never heard it. SPITALNY: I have some of that Russian paper money that's worthless. The gold was too heavy so they changed it all to paper money and when they got here it wasn't worth anything. GOULD: I don't know. He had some money because -- SPITALNY: Was he a nice man? GOULD: A very nice man. He had a temper. I'll never forget - he ran after me one time because I said something that he didn't like. They were living with us for awhile. He ran after me to spank me and I started running and I shut the door on his thumb and I saved my life. SPITALNY: I'll bet he was grateful. GOULD: He didn't like it. I'll never forget that incident. SPITALNY: What happened to him? GOULD: He was killed in a train accident. When Miriam was born, Rose and Edith came to take care of me, to be with me. He was having dinner at my brother, Nathan's, house, and that night there was a terrible rainstorm. He was staying in their summer home at Pike's Peak, I think. SPITALNY: Outside of Seattle? GOULD: Yes. Nathan and Olivia begged him to stay over because it was raining so hard. He says no, he had a dog there that was hungry, he hadn't fed him all day and he had to go. As he was crossing the train tracks he saw the train coming, but he thought he could make it before the train came. He would have made it if he had just gone a little faster, but the train hit the back of his car. He was thrown about 50 feet up in the air and landed on his head and was killed immediately. SPITALNY: They had three children? GOULD: They had Louise, the baby, and Evelyn and Edith. SPITALNY: And Edith passed away ten years ago or so. GOULD: More than that. SPITALNY: Right. It was late 50's. GOULD: Edith had two children. SPITALNY: Evelyn lives in New York and Louise lives in Los Angeles. What's her last name? GOULD: Louise Levine. Evelyn became a widow and opened up a little children's store and did very well. Then she met this Judas and recently married, and she's very happy. SPITALNY: To get back on the subject, tell us about your life in Phoenix. Why did you come to Phoenix? GOULD: My father became very, very ill. SPITALNY: What was wrong with him? GOULD: He had a tumor on the brain. He was held up one time and the fellow hit him with the gun on his head. He had to have about 75 stitches. About two years later he started complaining of headaches. My mother took him to all the doctors and they didn't know what was wrong with him. Finally, they found out he had a tumor on the brain. He went to the hospital at first and laid around. He said he wanted to come home, so Mother took him home and had nurses for him. In the meantime, Blanche met Charlie Korrick and married him. Blanche was on her honeymoon at that time and my father talked to Blanche and he said -- before she married Charles, Blanche didn't want to get married. She wanted to study her music. Her career meant more to her. SPITALNY She sang. GOULD: Yes, she sang. She had a beautiful voice. So, my father and mother talked to her and my father said, "Blanche, I'd like to see you get married before I die." Blanche came home and when she saw how sick my father was... Charlie Korrick was in Phoenix. He met the family first - he wanted to see what kind of family he was going to marry into. He loved all of us. My mother fell in love with him, too. So, when he went back to Phoenix, Blanche called him and he came to Phoenix. The whole family came to Phoenix. SPITALNY: Did you come? GOULD: Not in Phoenix -- I mean, in Seattle. SPITALNY: Say it again now. What happened? GOULD: Blanche called him in Phoenix to come to Seattle when she told him she'd marry him. SPITALNY: So he went to Seattle. GOULD: He came to Seattle. His brother, Abe, was there and Leah was there at the wedding. They had a small wedding. SPITALNY: Abe didn't go to the wedding. GOULD: Yes, he was at the wedding. SPITALNY: You're sure? GOULD: Yes. SPITALNY: Leah said that Abe didn't go to Blanche and Charlie's wedding. She wasn't sure. But Abe was there? GOULD: Abe was there. So was Leah. SPITALNY: Leah thought that Abe didn't go. GOULD: Abe was there, because that's when he met my family. SPITALNY: I see. GOULD: They got married ... SPITALNY: What year was that? GOULD: 1921, I think. So, they went on their honeymoonand two months later, or maybe sooner than that, I don't remember, my father passed away. He wanted to walk down the aisle with her, so he walked down the aisle with her, a nurse on one side held him up, and Blanche held him on the other side. SPITALNY: They were married in their home? GOULD: In Rosie's home. Rose had a great big living room. Rose wanted the wedding at her house. Two months later, or maybe two weeks later -I've forgotten - my father passed away. So, Blanche came to the funeral. SPITALNY: Did Charlie come to the funeral? GOULD: No. Charles went home and Blanche came over to the -- SPITALNY: Where did they go on their honeymoon? GOULD: I've forgotten. I don't know. After the funeral my mother was very, very ill and just went to pieces. The doctor told Blanche to take my mother to New York to visit her sister. In the meantime, Rose took everything out of the house and sold everything. Mother didn't have a home to come back to. SPITALNY: Did she want it that way? GOULD: Well, Mother didn't know anything. She was in New York and Rose did everything. SPITALNY: Why did Rose do that? GOULD: She didn't want my mother to come back to the house. We had a three-story home, a big home. We had four or five bedrooms on the second floor. On the third floor I had a little playhous there and we used to store our furs and all our woolens, blankets and woolen clothes, on the third floor. It was too big for Mother to take care of. SPITALNY: How old were you? GOULD: 12. SPITALNY: Where did Rose expect you to live? GOULD: I stayed with Rose after she broke up our home. I stayed with Rose for awhile. Then Blanche called me and said, "I want you to come live with us." So, I met her in San Francisco and she took me to Phoenix. SPITALNY: You were 12 years old. GOULD: Yes. She was like a mother to me. SPITALNY: She'd only been married a short time. GOULD: Yes. Only two or three months. SPITALNY: So, you came to Phoenix. First time you'd ever been to Phoenix? GOULD: Yes. SPITALNY: Did you like it? GOULD: I liked it, yes. It was a very small town. I think the population was only about 32,000. SPITALNY: That was 1921? GOULD: '21, '22. SPITALNY: And you were 12 years old? GOULD: No, I think I was older. I had to be older. It was the first year of high school. I think I was 13. SPITALNY: If you were born in 1905 and it was 1921 you'd be 16. GOULD: I wasn't 16. 14 maybe. SPITALNY: You started high school? GOULD: Yes. SPITALNY: Freshman year of high school? GOULD: Yes. SPITALNY: Phoenix Union? GOULD: Yes. That was the only high school they had then. SPITALNY: Had you been to high school in Seattle? GOULD: I don't remember. No, I think I started in Phoenix. SPITALNY: So you went to four years of high school in Phoenix. GOULD: Yes. SPITALNY: Tell us about it. GOULD: I liked it. Blanche was very good to me and so was Charles. SPITALNY: Did you have trouble making friends? GOULD: No. I made a lot of friends. SPITALNY: Where did you live? GOULD: Well, Blanche lived in an apartment house when she first married Charles. She lived in a lovely apartment. SPITALNY: Where was it, on Second Avenue? GOULD: Second Avenue. SPITALNY: Near McDowell? GOULD: I think it was near McDowell. And then the second year they had a home on McDowell. SPITALNY: On Third? With the green roof? GOULD: Yes. SPITALNY: It's still there. GOULD: Is it still there? SPITALNY: Yes. What do they call that roof that rolls over? GOULD: When I was 15 I met your father. SPITALNY: Let me ask you before you get to that - how long did you live in the apartment before you moved into the house? GOULD: About a year or two. About two years. SPITALNY: Did you have your own room? GOULD: Yes. SPITALNY: And they were very nice to you? GOULD: Very nice. SPITALNY: Did Charles Korrick object to you being there? GOULD: No, he didn't. He was very nice to me. SPITALNY: Did you feel comfortable? GOULD: Not always. SPITALNY: Why? GOULD: Oh, I don't know. I thought maybe Charles resented having me around. I don't know. But, they were very nice. Then, Rosie came to visit us one time. I was about 15 when I met your father. Your grandmother wanted him to meet me because she heard that I was -- SPITALNY: My dad's mother? GOULD: Daddy's mother -- she wanted him to meet me, thinking that I was older. She said, "Charlie Korrick's sister-in-law is visiting, go meet her." So, I went shopping. He had a store. SPITALNY: A grocery store? GOULD: No, I don't think -- yes, he was working for his father. SPITALNY: I have a picture in a grocery store in 1919. Do you want to see a picture? GOULD: You mean your father had a grocery store? No. SPITALNY: Yes. GOULD: Well, anyway, Blanche and I went shopping at that grocery store, I guess. SPITALNY: It was grandpa's store. It was on 1st Avenue. GOULD: But it wasn't a grocery store. It was a men's store. SPITALNY: No, he had a grocery store. Grandpa had a men's store. He had a grocery store. GOULD: Daddy had a grocery store. I didn't know that. Now, you see how much I know. He took one look at me and told his mother I was just a little girl. But, a year later I met him. We were at a Valentine dance given at the Women's Club. SPITALNY: Where was the old Women's Club? GOULD: Where was it? SPITALNY: It was on Central? GOULD: No, I don't think it was on Central. SPITALNY: I remember it was a two-story building, but I can't remember. GOULD: So, I went out with a nice young man who liked me very much. He used to meet me every day at high school, take me home to have my lunch and pick me up and take me back to school. SPITALNY: Do you remember his name? GOULD: Mort Nedelman. He's still alive. SPITALNY: Is he here in Phoenix? GOULD: Yes. SPITALNY: What's his name? GOULD: Mort Nedelman. And whenever he sees me, he kisses me even now today. So, he took me to this Valentine dance at the Women's Club. Your father came up and asked me for a dance and I said, "I don't know you. I don't dance with anybody I've never met." He said, "Well, if you dance with me and I'll tell you who I am, then you'll know who I am." I said, "Okay." So, I danced with him and then I said, "You didn't tell me who you are. What's your name?" He said, "I'm Sam Spitalny." I said, "Oh, I know who you are. Charlie Korrick always talks about you." But he was talking about his father, not about Sam. I thought it was he. So, he danced with me two or three times and then he asked me what I do on Sundays and I said nothing. So, he said, "Well, I go see my ranches every Sunday. Would you like to go for a ride with me?" I said, "Fine." So, he picked me up that Sunday and I went to see his ranch. SPITALNY: Where was his ranch? West part of town? GOULD: Yes. SPITALNY: Was it farming? GOULD: Well, you know, Phoenix was so small. Everything was out of the city limits. The city limits was as far as McDowell, so everything after that was out of the city. SPITALNY: Was it farmland? GOULD: Yes. It kept cows. They used to sell milk to the Central Avenue Dairy. So, after three Sundays he asked me to marry him and I was still in high school. SPITALNY: How old was Daddy? GOULD: He was 25 when I married him and I was 19. SPITALNY: How long did you go with him before you got married? GOULD: Three and a half years. And then we eloped. SPITALNY: You graduated from high school? Or, you didn't graduate from high school? GOULD: I went to boarding school. SPITALNY: After you graduated high school? GOULD: Yes. SPITALNY: Was it a college? GOULD: No - finishing school. Blanche wanted me to become a snout. SPITALNY: I see. What did you study? GOULD: In boarding school? SPITALNY: Yes. GOULD: I don't know what I studied -- English -- I took regular college courses. SPITALNY: It was a college? GOULD: Yes. SPITALNY: Didn't you go to UCLA? GOULD: Yes. After I left boarding school, I went to UCLA. SPITALNY: For a summer? GOULD: No. I went for a year. But I didn't like it. It wasn't the same UCLA as it is now. It was just a little school. They didn't have any fraternities, they didn't have sororities. You had to live in homes in order to go to school there. I was living with a girl who was in boarding school with me. SPITALNY: What was her name? GOULD: Fern Smith, I think it was. I used to get an allowance every month. SPITALNY: Who gave you an allowance? GOULD: Blanche and Charles. Fern, just because I had money, she made me pay for every little thing that she wanted to do. If we went to the show I had to treat her; if we went to the streetcar I had to treat her. Then, when I went home from school -- I didn't eat breakfast there; I had something to eat at the school -- and I'd come home after school and there'd be a pile of dishes waiting for me to wash. I was a regular maid there and Blanche paid her plenty to keep me there. So, I was very unhappy and I called Blanche and I said, "Blanche, I want to come home." She says, "No, you're registered at the University; you stay there." I said, "I don't want to stay there. I want to go home." So, I called Charlie Korrick and he came to Los Angeles and took me out of there and brought me to Phoenix and helped me register at ASU. Of course, it wasn't ASU then; it was Tempe Normal School. SPITALNY: What was the name of your school in Pasadena, the boarding school? GOULD: Horton(?) School for Girls. SPITALNY: And you went there for a year? GOULD: A year. SPITALNY: And liked it? GOULD: I liked it very much. We had a lot of fun there. SPITALNY: Did you learn anything? GOULD: Yes. I learned a lot of things. We played tennis every morning. Sunday we had Bible classes. I used to go to the Methodist church every Sunday morning. Friday night we had to have a chaperon to take us to temple. SPITALNY: Were there many Jewish girls there? GOULD: Three. SPITALNY: Did you write to Daddy while you were at Horton School? GOULD: Oh, sure. He was wonderful. SPITALNY: Did he come visit you? GOULD: No. But he used to send me all kinds of gifts and boxes of candy and Donofrio's hand-painted boxes of candy. He used to send me crates of oranges and apples and boxes of dates. Every week I'd get a box from him. One day he sent me a diamond ring and he says, "Put it on your finger." So, when I got it I put it on my other hand, not as an engagement ring. SPITALNY: Do you still have it? So, you wore the ring on your other finger and didn't tell anyone you were engaged? GOULD: That's right. SPITALNY: Did you date anyone else while you were engaged? GOULD: Yes. I went out with a lot of young men. SPITALNY: So, then you came home to Phoenix. Where did you live when you went to ASU? GOULD: I stayed with Blanche. SPITALNY: Didn't you live in the dorm? GOULD: Oh, yes. SPITALNY: Was Florence Field your roommate? GOULD: No, Florence Field was my roommate in boarding school. SPITALNY: Oh, she was? GOULD: Yes. In boarding school we were roommates. We've been friends for a long time. SPITALNY: Are you still corresponding? GOULD: No. I lost all track of her. SPITALNY: Does she live in Fort Collins? GOULD: No. The last letter I wrote to her was in Canada. SPITALNY: She was Canadian originally, wasn't she? GOULD: I don't know. She lived in Fort Collins. SPITALNY: Colorado. But wasn't her mother from Canada? GOULD: I don't know. They traveled quite a bit. After her father died they settled in Canada. SPITALNY: While you were at ASU you didn't live in the dormitory? GOULD: Yes, I did. SPITALNY: Who was your roommate there? GOULD: Oh, my gosh. She lives in California now. I can't remember her name. She was a beautiful little girl. SPITALNY: When did you know Mr. Romley's sister-in-law? GOULD: That's when we went to school together after I was married. We were in the same classes. SPITALNY: At ASU? GOULD: Yes. So, she used to pick me up every morning and take me to school. SPITALNY: While you were still going to ASU you married Daddy? GOULD: Yes. SPITALNY: Then what happened? GOULD: Well, I went back to school again, to graduate -- SPITALNY: You got married during the summer? GOULD: Yes. He came to California for a Shrine convention that was held in Los Angeles in 1925. SPITALNY: And you were on vacation? GOULD: I was on vacation. I was staying with Blanche(?). SPITALNY: In Los Angeles. GOULD: In Los Angeles. We went to the Shrine Ball and the next day he was going to go home and I begged him to stay over another day, because it was Sunday and I was going to be alone and I didn't want him to leave on Sunday. Then he said, "Okay, then I'll leave Monday." So, he was going to leave Monday and I said, "Oh, don't leave Monday." He said, "Well, I'll stay over if you marry me." So, I thought I would kid him around and said, "Okay, I'll marry you." I thought I was kidding, but he really meant it. So, Jeffrey Strauss, Alma Korrick's brother, was with us because he was driving the car. SPITALNY: He went over with Daddy? GOULD: Yes. The family went over to LA too. SPITALNY: And Jeff Strauss and Daddy had gone to LA together? GOULD: No. Jeff was with Alma and her family. But, Jeff and Sam and I were good friends. So, he said to Jeff, "Let's get a rabbi and get married." I said, "I'm not going to marry you." He said, "Oh, yes, you are." Jeff said, "Go ahead and get married and I'll be your witness." So, we went to get our license and I didn't want to even climb the stairs. Daddy carried me up the stairs in order to get the license. SPITALNY: Where was Blanche during this? GOULD: Blanche was expecting Eddie at that time. She thought that Jeffrey and I were taking Daddy to the station to go home. So he said to the girl there at the desk that made out the license, "Would you get Rabbi Magnun for us?" So, she called his office and Dr. Rabbi Magnun was playing golf and didn't want to come back to temple. So, she says, "Why don't you just get any rabbi in the book and call him?" So, Daddy called a real Orthodox rabbi, not knowing who he was, and so he called. The rabbi said yes, he could come over. We went over to the rabbi's home and we had to sign the marriage license. He said to Daddy, "Have you got the ring?" Daddy says, "Yes, I have some ink." And he gave him the fountain pen. He says, "No, no, no. Not the ink - the ring!" So, Jeffrey and the rabbi's wife were the witnesses. Then, after the wedding they usually give them a little glass of wine, but they didn't serve wine. She served some sweet - like a punch. We each had a glass of punch and went home. SPITALNY: How old were you when you got married? GOULD: I was 19. SPITALNY: Was that old then? GOULD: I guess it was. So, Blanche was waiting for us. The night before, we went to see "No, No, Nanette" and we were supposed to take him to the station. SPITALNY: He didn't have his car then? GOULD: No. He took the train. So, we went to see "No, No, Nanette" and he bought me the music. It's been my song ever since. SPITALNY: "Tea For Two". GOULD: "Tea For Two", yes. When we came home, Blanche said, "Where have you been? I thought you were going to go to the station." Well, we had dinner that night and he said to me, "You better call Blanche and tell her we're going to be late because we're going to the show." But the operator at the switchboard wasn't there. It was 6:00 and she went out to have dinner, so no one could get the calls through. Then we had to rush to the show and, while we were sitting during intermission - it was about 10:00 - he says, "Better call Blanche." I said, "It's too late. She'll be asleep by this time. I'm not going to wake her up." So, we didn't call her at all to let her know where we were. When we got there she was waiting for us - she was so angry with me. SPITALNY: You were married. GOULD: No, I wasn't married then. That was the night before. So, she said to me, "I'm not going to be responsible for you anymore. You go back and stay with Rose. I don't want you anymore. Pack your suitcase and pack your trunk and go." So, I started to cry and Daddy said, "Blanche, we tried to get you but we couldn't get the switchboard." She says, "I don't care. I called all the hospitals, I called the police. Nobody knew where you were." So, I packed my suitcase and I packed my trunk and Daddy was going to come the next day to say good-bye to me. I was crying and I said, "Just think. If I go to Seattle I'll never see you again." So, that's when Jeffrey was going to take us to the station. Jeffrey says, "Why don't you two get married instead." So, that's how it happened that we got married. So, when we got married we went back to Auntie Blanche's house. Daddy said, "Well, Blanche, we're married." She says, "I thought you were going to Phoenix." He says, "Well, we decided to get married." She began to cry. I said, "Well, you were going to send me to Seattle and I didn't want to go to Seattle." So, she said, "I didn't mean that. I wasn't going to send you back. I just was angry at you." Anyway, Blanche carried on something terrible, so Charlie said, "Where are you going to stay?" Daddy told him where we were going to stay. He says, "I'll see you tomorrow morning. Oh, I received a beautiful bouquet of flowers from Mr. Marks, Barnett Marks, whose son I was going steady with at that time, too. Harold Marks and I were planning one day to get married. He was going to go to Detroit, to Michigan, and go to college there, to law school. When I graduated high school I was supposed to go there and go to normal school. I was going to take a course to be a teacher. But, it didn't materialize - instead I married Daddy. Mr. Marks sent me a bouquet of flowers the next morning and says, "To the sweetest girl. I didn't realize that you were married." Anyway, then Uncle Charles came and knocked at our door and he walked in and says, "I'm going to annul the marriage." I says, "No, you're not." He says, "What you did to Blanche - you hurt her. She cried all night. I promised her that I would annul the marriage." I says, "No, Charles, I'm going to stay married." That day we received a telegram from his family, "Come home immediately." SPITALNY: Whose family? GOULD: Grandma and Grandpa. It didn't say "Congratulations", nothing, "Come home immediately." SPITALNY: From Dad's family. GOULD: From Dad's family, yes. So, I was really worried to meet his family. SPITALNY: You'd never met them. GOULD: I never met them, no. I saw them, I used to see them all the time, but I'd never met them. SPITALNY: Did you know Julius? GOULD: Oh, I knew Julius and I knew Elizabeth, yes. SPITALNY: What did your husband say? Was he upset? GOULD: He was upset when he got that telegram. SPITALNY: How did they hear you got married? GOULD: Well, Daddy called and told them that he couldn't get home because we got married instead. So, they sent the telegram saying, "Come home immediately." That's the way the telegram was written. Then, we took the train and I went back home. I stayed with ____________ for about three days and then we went on our honeymoon. SPITALNY: When you met them, what was it like? GOULD: They were very nice to me. For a wedding present, from my mother-in-law, I got a little schameze(?). A little something that girls used to wear - it's coming back in style now - so, that's what my mother-in-law gave me for a wedding present. So, we went back to San Francisco. Blanche was angry at me. She just disowned me. We called Alma. Alma and Blanche had an apartment right next door to each other. So, I called Alma Korrick and Alma invited us for dinner. While we were having dinner she called Blanche and Blanche came in. She says, "Where are you going now?" I said, "We're going to San Francisco to see Mother and Harry and then we're going to go on to Seattle." So, she kind of forgave me then and she wished me lots of good luck. We went to San Francisco and Mother wanted to go with us to Seattle. So, we had a little Buick Roadster - two passenger car, but three could squeeze in - with a rumble seat in back. The seat in the back was outside, you know, it was attached to the back of the car. So, Mother wanted to go with us to Seattle, so Sam says, "Come on, Mother, you can go with us." So, we drove to Seattle. I'll never forget - we stopped in this little town called Shasta, Oregon, where the Shasta water -- it was such a terrible hotel. Mother was afraid to stay in the room by herself, so I slept with her and Sam slept by himself. SPITALNY: Who sat in the rumble seat? GOULD: Nobody sat in the rumble seat. We wouldn't let Mother sit in the rumble seat. We squeezed in, the three of us. SPITALNY: So, you went up to Seattle. GOULD: We stayed with my sister, Rose, and Nate. She gave a great big party for us. She invited Sammy Prodess(?). He and I used to play together when we were little. He was thrilled to see us. She had a lovely party for us. Rosie was expecting a baby. She wanted a boy so badly after two girls. We were going to go to Canada. So, Nathan said, "Don't go to Canada. Stay with us and see if we're going to have a boy or girl." So, Daddy says, "Okay, if it's a boy we'll forget about Canada. If it's a girl, we'll just go right on." Rosie says, "Okay." We waited until Rosie had the baby and it was a girl, but we stayed anyway. We didn't go to Canada. SPITALNY: I thought you went to Canada. GOULD: No. SPITALNY: I thought you went to Lake Louise on your honeymoon. GOULD: No, that was before. I went to Lake Louise with Auntie Blanche. That was when I was a little girl we went to Lake Louise. SPITALNY: I thought you went to Lake Louise on your honeymoon. GOULD: No, we never did go to Canada. We stayed in Seattle and then we drove back home. When we got back to Phoenix, Daddy said, "Instead of looking for a house and you have to cook and clean and everything and go to school," -- he promised Blanche that I would go back to school and graduate, and he wanted to keep his promise -- "so we'll live with Mother and Father and when you graduate we'll find a house." So, that's what I did and that was a very unhappy time for me. We stayed about six months with them. Then we found a cute little house. SPITALNY: Did you get along with them? GOULD: I got along with them very nice. I never fought with your grandmother. That was one thing she did say to somebody, that I had never talked back to her, that I was a very nice daughter-in-law, never said anything bad to her. SPITALNY: Why was it an unhappy time, just too many people around? GOULD: I was uncomfortable there. I didn't really know them, and to live with somebody you don't know -- SPITALNY: It was a big family. GOULD: Yes, in a big family. And everybody was there. Julius was the nicest. He was very sweet to me. I loved Julius. I stayed there and I became pregnant in their home. I'll never forget New Year's Eve. I had a few drinks and became quite ill. I fed the fish that night and grandmother says, "What's wrong with her?" Daddy said, "Oh, Betty's pregnant." SPITALNY: So, you went to school while you were pregnant. GOULD: Two months, yes. I graduated and I had a very dear little girl, friend of mine, two of them. One of them became a nun in Los Angeles. She's Romley's sister-in-law. She said to me, "Wouldn't it be funny, Betty, if I should teach kindergarten or first grade and I teach your child?" And she did. SPITALNY: She taught Miriam. GOULD: Yes, Mir was in the first grade with her. SPITALNY: What kind of work did ___________ do? GOULD: He stayed with his father, but he bought and sold cattle. Later on, he left his father and just went into the cattle business. Then he bought ranches and so forth. SPITALNY: He had a packing plant in LA. GOULD: He had one here, too, but the man he was with -- SPITALNY: It didn't work out. GOULD: No, he wasn't honest. Daddy lost a lot of money. SPITALNY: Where did you live here after you left Grandma's? GOULD: We rented a beautiful little duplex. It was just brand-new, and the couple that owned it, they had just married, too, and her father bought that for a wedding present for them. So, I lived on one side and they lived on the other side. On Westminster Avenue. SPITALNY: Where? GOULD: Westminster Avenue. SPITALNY: I'm talking about in Phoenix. GOULD: In Phoenix. SPITALNY: Is there a Westminster Avenue? GOULD: Yes. It's -- let's see, I've forgotten the names of the streets since I've been away. SPITALNY: You're sure it was Westminster? GOULD: Westminster. It was near Kenilworth School, because Miriam went to Kenilworth School. Then Daddy came after -- I don't remember when he -- when we first came -- then we went to Los Angeles and we lived there for about ten years. I think it was ten years. SPITALNY: Miriam and _________ were both born in LA. GOULD: Miriam was born in LA because it was in July and I didn't expect her until August, but she came early. SPITALNY: You didn't live there ten years, because _____________ was born in 1932. You must have been there five years. GOULD: Five years, and then we came back to Phoenix. SPITALNY: You moved back to Phoenix about 1931. GOULD: '31, maybe so. SPITALNY: And then ________________ was born here. GOULD: Natalie was born -- Elaine was born in 1930. SPITALNY: Right. So, you moved here about 1931, approximately. GOULD: I wasn't living in Los Angeles when Elaine was born. SPITALNY: Yes, you were. Elaine was born in Los Angeles. GOULD: That's right. That's right. So, when we came back, Grandpa told Daddy there was a house for sale that Senator Hayden wanted to sell. So, we went to see that house on 2nd Street. I hated it, because the house I had in Los Angeles compared to this little house was a shack. I hated it, so when the furniture came I didn't do a thing. Your father put all the furniture away. He said he did everything. I lived in that house for about a year. I think Natalie was born in that house. Then, Daddy came home one day and said, "I bought you a beautiful home. I know you hate this house. I bought you a beautiful home on Camelback." SPITALNY: Didn't Del Webb come and remodel that home? GOULD: Yes, he did, after we lived -- he made some cabinets for us in our kitchen. SPITALNY: Do you remember that? GOULD: Sure. He came and I told him what I wanted in the kitchen and he made cabinets. SPITALNY: The house on 2nd Street? GOULD: Camelback. I sold that one on 2nd Street and I was glad to get rid of it. SPITALNY: I thought you rented that house. GOULD: Not on 2nd Street. Daddy bought it from Senator Hayden. But we lived in Camelback all that time. Then we rented that house when we moved to Los Angeles, because Louie had to have an operation on his leg. SPITALNY: That's Daddy's brother? GOULD: Louie is Daddy's brother. He had to live in Los Angeles for treatments, because he had quite a serious operation on his leg. SPITALNY: He had polio? GOULD: Polio, yes, when he was a baby. He was terribly crippled up. This doctor really helped him - straightened his leg out. SPITALNY: Wasn't that after ______________________? GOULD: No, we were living in Fremont Place. SPITALNY: I thought he was _________________________. GOULD: No. SPITALNY: So, you were living in Phoenix for about a year when I was born and Daddy was living in Los Angeles with Louie, is that right? GOULD: Yes. Then we moved to Los Angeles. SPITALNY: About 1936? No, 1935. GOULD: When were you born, Rick? SPITALNY: '34. GOULD: You were just a baby. Well, we went to Los Angeles for the summer - to the beach for the summer. Then he bought that house on Madison(?). SPITALNY: The summer of '35. GOULD: Yes. No, we lived in Fremont Place. We rented that house. SPITALNY: Louie still lived with you. GOULD: Yes, Louie lived with us then. SPITALNY: So, you lived in Los Angeles from 1940, '41. GOULD: Then we gave up that house and bought a house on Maslin(?) and we lived in that house. I wanted to go back to Phoenix, because Daddy was in Phoenix more than he was at home. SPITALNY: Buying cattle down in Mexico? GOULD: Yes. He traveled all over. He was never at home. I didn't want to be there. I wanted to come back to Phoenix. SPITALNY: But we lived in Las Villas before we moved back to Phoenix. GOULD: Well, then we lived in Las Villas. Then my mother became ill and she passed away. SPITALNY: She died in 1941. GOULD: Yes. SPITALNY: How old was she, 73? GOULD: 73 when she died. She had that gall bladder operation and she never pulled through. So, when the doctor told Daddy to take me away and he says, "Otherwise -- " I lost 19 pounds in three months. The doctor said, "You better take your wife on a trip next time, because if you don't she'll be in the hospital." So, Auntie Blanche was there for the funeral and she stayed. She and a very dear friend of mine, Sarah Brown -- I don't know if you remember her -- they both packed my suitcase and said, "Go." So, Daddy took me on this trip and I cried, cried, all the way. Finally, he said, "Honey, if you just stop crying and try to be happy again, I'll do anything you want me to do." I said, "I want to move back to Phoenix." "Okay." So, that's how we moved back to Phoenix. SPITALNY: You still had the house on Camelback. GOULD: Yes, we had it rented. So, we moved back to Camelback. SPITALNY: Just before the second world war. GOULD: Was it? SPITALNY: September '41. GOULD: That's right. December 7th -- it was Blanche's anniversary, and I baked her a beautiful wedding cake and I brought it over and that's when I heard the news of the war being declared. Nobody ate the cake. They were all listening to the radio. SPITALNY: I remember we were all out picking oranges on Central Avenue. Uncle Charles _______________ - do you remember that? GOULD: Yes. Do you remember Cowboy? SPITALNY: Cowboy? GOULD: A little Shetland pony we had. SPITALNY: That was before my time. GOULD: Oh. SPITALNY: That was Miriam's pony. GOULD: That's right. We had a beautiful Shetland pony. SPITALNY: Are they still riding on the bridle path? GOULD: Yes. And when Natalie was just a baby -- she was just a year old -- she loved that pony. I used to put her on the pony's back and he never moved a muscle. He knew the baby was sitting on his back and he never moved a muscle. He stood there just as calm, until I took her off and he'd march away. SPITALNY: You had a dog, too, didn't you? GOULD: We had a Great Dane, a beautiful Great Dane. It came from Harold Lloyd's Kennels. Now, I know you don't know who Harold Lloyd is, but he was a very famous actor. He was a comedian. He raised these horses -- I mean, these dogs, and Daddy bought one from him and he was a wonderful dog. You don't remember him, do you? SPITALNY: Yes. GOULD: He was a beautiful dog. SPITALNY: So, what was Phoenix like before the war? GOULD: It was just a little town. SPITALNY: Had it grown a lot between the time -- GOULD: On Saturday night, all the stores were open until 10:00. Charlie Korrick kept his department store open until 10:00 - everybody - Goldwater's - all of them, kept their stores open until 10:00. Saturday night was the busiest night. And all the Indians would come in from the reservation and sit on the corner to sell their baskets and jewelry. They sat on the ground. SPITALNY: Did you ever buy any? GOULD: No. SPITALNY: That was a mistake. GOULD: It was a mistake, believe me. Now, I wish I had. And then, Phoenix grew. SPITALNY: Had it changed very much from the time you first came here until you came back in '41? GOULD: Well, it grew a little bit. When I first arrived in Phoenix they didn't even have a station. They had an outside station. SPITALNY: Just a platform. GOULD: Platform. That's all. When Blanche brought me over and I said, "Where's the station?", she showed me an outhouse and said, "That's the station." They built another one. The one they have now, they built that lately. SPITALNY: When did we have the summer place at the beach? GOULD: Oh, we used to go to the beach every summer. SPITALNY: That's when we were living in Los Angeles or Phoenix? GOULD: In Phoenix. In Los Angeles, we didn't go to the beach. But, in Phoenix, it was so hot in the summertime. In May it was so hot you couldn't stand it. SPITALNY: What did the poor people do? GOULD: The poor people had to stay here and suffer. SPITALNY: How did they -- GOULD: Everybody that could afford to leave Phoenix left Phoenix during the summer months. SPITALNY: How did you sleep in the summertime? GOULD: We slept outside. We had cots and we slept outside. All the homes usually had a great big screened porch where you put your cots outside, or your beds, and you slept there. SPITALNY: What did you do when you first came here and lived with Blanche in an apartment, was there a screened porch there? GOULD: No, they didn't. SPITALNY: Did they have fans? GOULD: Fans. SPITALNY: Electric fans? GOULD: Electric fans. When I had my little house, in order to have it cool, all the draperies were drawn. You never opened the drapery during the day. You had to have fans. We had fans in every room. That's the only way. SPITALNY: That's awful. GOULD: It was awful. As soon as school was out we'd leave. The end of May was the end of school. SPITALNY: Did Daddy leave, too? GOULD: No. Daddy used to come weekends. SPITALNY: On the train or drive? GOULD: On the train. SPITALNY: Every weekend? GOULD: Not every weekend, but he used to come and spend weekends with us. We had a lovely house on the beach. I had everybody come to visit us. Some Saturdays and Sundays I'd have 20 people for dinner. I didn't have enough plates and silverware, so I'd go to the dime store and buy all kinds of cheap silverware. SPITALNY: Did they all stay with you? GOULD: No, for the day. SPITALNY: People that you knew in Los Angeles? GOULD: Yes, like Uncle Izzie and Aunt Ruby. SPITALNY: Aunt Ruby was Daddy's aunt? GOULD: That's right. SPITALNY: Grandma's sister? GOULD: Grandma's sister. But she was more modern than Grandma. She was really sweet. I loved her. And Uncle Izzie - I loved him, too. Every time we'd come to Los Angeles, the first one we'd call is Uncle Izzie and Aunt Ruby. SPITALNY: His daughter called not too long ago. GOULD: She was here. She told me she came. Did you see her? SPITALNY: She called. I didn't get a chance to see her. GOULD: She is getting to be exactly like Aunt Ruby. I don't know if you heard -- SPITALNY: Who? GOULD: Joan. SPITALNY: I'm not talking about Joan. I'm talking about Harry's daughter. GOULD: Oh. SPITALNY: Brenda. GOULD: Brenda, that's right. She was here? SPITALNY: So, go ahead. How did Izzie ___________________? GOULD: Aunt Ruby said that. I don't remember what he said; he wanted to do something in advance. SPITALNY: He wanted to buy a buggy. GOULD: That's right. He wanted to buy a buggy with some horses. He was talking about it, so Aunt Ruby said, "Izzy, get on the ruggy."(?) That was a famous expression. SPITALNY: That's very interesting. What did you do summers here? GOULD: Well, Daddy bought this ranch in Flagstaff and when he took me up there to show me the ranch, the ranch was lovely, but the house was terribly run down. They had all the cowboys sitting in the kitchen with the great big stove and they chewed tobacco. Tobacco was spit on the walls and on the floor. I ran in and I ran out and I started to cry and I said, "You want me to live in this pig-hole." Daddy said, "Oh, don't worry, I'll fix it where you'll be happy." Which he did. He remodeled the whole house and it looked beautiful afterwards. We loved it, didn't we? You had five beds in your room, if you remember, double beds, bunk beds. SPITALNY: It was nice and cool up there in the summer. GOULD: Oh, it was beautiful. SPITALNY: It had an outhouse when we first bought it. GOULD: Well, he built a beautiful bathroom. SPITALNY: But there was running water, but no electricity, though. GOULD: No, we didn't have electricity. We had a wooden stove and we had kerosene lamps. We really had an old-fashioned house then. SPITALNY: That was fun. GOULD: Don't you remember Daddy gave you a little black Angus cow, a bull, a little one, and you won the first prize. SPITALNY: Grand championship. GOULD: Grand championship, that's right. And when the -- who was it, the man who examined all the animals -- the judge -- he came and examined your bull. He liked it and then when he went away, you turned your head and said, "No." You were disappointed. Then when he said you won, you were in heaven. You know, Daddy didn't want to be there. SPITALNY: He was out of town? GOULD: No, he wasn't out of town. He just didn't want to be at the fair if you lost. Then, when you won he came over afterwards. He didn't want to be there to -- so, then you walked in the parade with the mayor. Wasn't it the mayor, or the head man? SPITALNY: The sheriff. GOULD: The sheriff, yes. SPITALNY: From Flagstaff. GOULD: You were so proud with that little bull. SPITALNY: Little Larry. GOULD: Larry, how old were you, about 10? SPITALNY: I was 12. GOULD: 12? No, you weren't that old. SPITALNY: I was about 10. GOULD: Then, Daddy took you to a round-up in Williams and you had to ride on the horse all day long. Then the cook said he needed some flour, so you and Daddy got in the car and went to the grocery store. You said to your father, "Gee, Daddy, this is a helluva way to make a living." Your Daddy came home and told me about it. Do you remember that, Larry? SPITALNY: I remember. That was very interesting, Mother. We'll continue this another time. GOULD: I want to tell you something about my 80th birthday. SPITALNY: Go ahead and tell us about it. GOULD: Well, Elaine gave a beautiful birthday party for me at the Beverly Hills Hotel. It was just beautiful and she invited all of my friends and family. In the meantime, Natalie was in New York and she kept sending me cards, "Mother, be ready at a certain time and more information coming." A week later I'd get another card, "This is Number Three. Get ready when I tell you to. Get ready when I come and get you." Then she said, "We're going to go on a trip." So, I thought she was either going to take me to Seattle or to Phoenix. When she came that Saturday to pick me up I was all ready to go and we went to the airport. Still I didn't know where we were going, until somebody made a mistake. I don't know if it was you or the _________________. He says "Hawaii" and I said, "Are you taking me to Hawaii?" She said, "Oh, I didn't want you to know." So, we went to Kona where Natalie's son is, Brad, Doug and his wife. I'd never met his wife. When I arrived she didn't tell Doug that I was coming. When he saw me, he said, "Oh, Grandma, you're Betty!" He was just so happy to see me and he kissed me and I was so happy to see him and meet Kathy. Kathy's a sweet little girl. She's not too little, she's a big girl. But, they were darling and I had the nicest time of my life with Natalie and the children. It was just wonderful. SPITALNY: When you go home, think of some more things and next time you come we'll add some things to it. Log for Betty Gould Interview Pages 1- 3 Parents' history Louis Becker Anna Levine 3- 4 Siblings 4 Born in New York 6- 7 Childhood in Seattle 6- 8 Siblings Rose Nathan Blanche Harry 9 Father became Ill 9-11 Blanche married Charlie Korrick 11 Father died 11 Lived with Blanche; moved to Phoenix 12 Attended Phoenix Union High School 13 Met husband at age 15 Sam Spitalny 15 Married at age 19 Mort Nedelman 16 Attended UCLA 17 Attended Horton School for Girls Fern Smith 18 Attended ASU Florence Field 19-23 Events leading to wedding Jeff Strauss Alma Korrick Rabbi Magnun Barnett Marks Harold Marks 23 Trip to Seattle 26 Birth of children Senator Hayden 27 Moved to Los Angeles 28 Moved back to Phoenix Sarah Brown Harold Lloyd 30 Changes in Phoenix 31 Dealing with summer heat 32-33 Ranch in Flagstaff 34 80th birthday party