..inte: Rose Rosenberg ..intr: Dorothy Pickelner ..da: 1991 ..cp: 1997.006.010 USO JWB Succot dance, Culver Street Temple Beth Israel, ca. 1942. ..ca: ..ftxt: Interview with Rose Rosenberg April 11, 1991 Transcriptionist: Carol Ruttan Interviewer: Dorothy Pickelner Log For Rose Rosenberg Interview Pages 1- 2 Moved to Phoenix 1933 Rabbi Dow 3 Friends Etta Mendelsohn Newmarks Goldmans Silvermans 3- 4 Hot Phoenix summers 4- 5 Drug store business 5 Son born 1939 Bob Rosenberg 5- 6 Social life Governor Jones 7 Charity work 8- 9 National Council of Jewish Women Mary Straus Alma Korrick 9-10 Beginnings of Hadassah Etta Mendelsohn Ruth Bank Molly Friedman Sylvia Doro Pearl Newmark Sophie Citron 10 Seder dinners Mrs. Nathan Diamond 11-12 World War II Ida Bland 12-13 Abraham Lincoln Krohn 13 Temple Beth Israel Archie Kroloff 14-15 Early days of Hadassah Debby Metz Rabbi Jaffa 15-16 Israeli Symphony Orchestra Mrs. Lfnde Leonard Bernstein 17 Phoenix Art Museum; Docent program Evelyn Effron 18-19 Growth of the library Jane Hudgens 19 Planning Commission Leap Commission 20 Terrence Manley Archie Kroloff Rose Rosenberg Interview Hello. This is Dorothy Pickelner and I'm at the home of Mrs. Rose Rosenberg, Mrs. Allen Rosenberg and we're going to interview her about her arrival and contributions to the history of the Jewish community in Phoenix, Arizona. PICKELNER: Rose, can you tell us about how you first came to Arizona, where you came from and about your family? ROSENBERG: Allen and I came over here to look around at a building to see if we wanted to join a young man that we knew over in L.A. He had been over here and told us about the place, so we came over to see it. We rented the store from a Mr. Thalheimer, in those days, at 22 East Washington and we were in the drug business for eight years and sold our store to the Skaggs people. It was the first store that they opened here in Phoenix, or in Arizona. PICKELNER: That's very interesting. What was Phoenix like then? I know East Washington was a hub of the business community. Tell us about what kind of a place it was. ROSENBERG: Well, it really was a sort of a gathering place, because everybody came to shop at the department stores and stop for food and stuff, so It was wall to wall people on the streets downtown and the hub was Washington and Central. A lot of Indians sat on all of the street corners and sold their wares and it was really a very nice cowboy town in those days. We had a pack of fun in those days. All of us, the little group that we first started out with, a lot of the people who had little stores in Phoenix around our store, we used to have potluck suppers and we used to go horseback riding out in the desert that is just full of houses and streets now. We'd leave work about 8:00 at night and go out on the desert and ride. Then the man who owned the horses would have a steak fry for us at midnight and we used to have a lot of fun. PICKELNER: Was there much of a Jewish community, Rose? ROSENBERG: There was this one little temple and I don't think there was a synagogue at that time, but I'm not too sure. I would say there were about 40 families at that time. PICKELNER: What year was this that you came? ROSENBERG: 1933. PICKELNER: 1933. well, that was a long time ago. where did you live? What your home like and in what neighborhood? ROSENBERG: We really lived the most of that time in an apartment and then we bought a little house on 11th Avenue near Encanto Park, and lived there for quite awhile. PICKELNER: Was there a Jewish area or wasn't there any kind? ROSENBERG: I don't really Identify an area. I think we were just all over the town. We were just a part of the town. PICKELNER: Was there a rabbi? ROSENBERG: Yes, there was. There was Rabbi Dow. He was with the synagogue, I just happened to think about him that you mentioned that. I can't remember the rabbi that was here when the little temple was here, Temple Beth Israel. PICKELNER: Was that on second Street? ROSENBERG: On Second Street and Culver. PICKELNER: Who were your friends? Can you remember any of them by name? ROSENBERG: Oh, now, that's going too far. First, I can say Etta Mendelsohn and her husband, and the Newmarks were here and Rabbi Dow, and the Goldmans. PICKELNER: Was that Bert and Bud Goldman? ROSENBERG: They were not at that time, no, it was her mother -- were they the Silvermans? PICKELNER: Yes. ROSENBERG: They were the Silvermans. We knew them. PICKELNER: And Etta Mendelsohn and Norman? ROSENBERG: Yes. PICKELNER: Wasn't he in the drug store business? ROSENBERG: With us. And then he went to his own store. PICKELNER: And your business was where when you came? ROSENBERG: 22 East Washington. PICKELNER: And the year was 1933. And you remained here from then on. ROSENBERG: Yes. PICKELNER: Was there a variety of stores? ROSENBERG: Yes. we had paved streets and we had streetcars in those days and the Capitol was here and all that sort of stuff. It was a nice little community. It didn't go far. I think it stopped at about McDowell, or Thomas. PICKELNER: What happened in the summertime when it was so hot? ROSENBERG: Well, on hot summer days we had a soda fountain in our drug store and we used to take eggs out and crack them and put them on the sidewalk and watch them cook. PICKELNER: Really so hot you could cook eggs? ROSENBERG: Sleeping was really a bad situation. We used to wet sheets and hang them on the window and put a fan and let the fan go through the wet sheet. And we'd wrap ourselves in wet sheets and try and sleep. It was pretty bad. Then we moved to a little apartment building where we had a side yard and we used to sleep on wonderful cots. We would put the legs in a little can, put the little can in a big can and put the water In the big can so the scorpions could not crawl up on the bed. PICKELNER: That's very interesting, Rose. what happened to the women? Did the women always stay in Phoenix? ROSENBERG: No. The women always would go, most everybody, would go to San Diego or L.A. or Coronado or Prescott or other places, but they would Just get out of here with the children. The men stayed here and sweated. PICKELNER: I know we always wondered when we came why we always saw so few women here. It was August and we wondered that we saw so few women. I think you once told a story about the kind of women that got on the train at one end and who got off at the other. Do you want to tell us about that? ROSENBERG: No, you've told it. You said it, I didn't. PICKELNER: What kind of a life did you lead? How was business, for example? ROSENBERG: Business was Just fine. We worked hard and I think everybody worked hard in those days. It was the height of the Depression, so everybody worked hard. I was very happy to be in the drug store business at that time, because the prescriptions in those days, even, were too high for the people who couldn't afford them, and we were in the cut rate drug business. I thought that was wonderful. PICKELNER: Did you have trouble getting drugs and supplies in Phoenix in those days? ROSENBERG: No. We could get them. We had nice inventories in those days. PICKELNER: Were there many drug stores in town? ROSENBERG: Not too many. I think there might have been three or four that I think about right now. None in outlying districts. PICKELNER: What kind of a city was Phoenix, I mean, the city at large? What kind of a life did the people live? Was there a Jewish neighborhood and other neighborhoods where there's good schools? When was your son born? ROSENBERG: He was born in 1939. PICKELNER: As he grew older -- ROSENBERG: He went to Osborn School and North High and ASU. PICKELNER: And your son's name? ROSENBERG: Bob. PICKELNER: What sort of social life was there? ROSENBERG: There was a nice social life. People visited with each other. There wasn't what you call going out to eat as we know it now. People stayed home and in the summertime they'd fix the protein outside on the grill and then bring it in the house, or eat outside. It was sort of informal. PICKELNER: Were there groups, like social groups? ROSENBERG: A lot of that. There was a lot of visiting. Visiting was the big thing of that time. Everybody visited and you'd bring the kids. It was families mixing with families and it was really a nice community. what broke that all up was 1952 when radios came Into effect, or television. I think 1952 was television. Then, after that, you would call up your friends and say, "Is it convenient for us to come over tonight and visit?" And they would politely say, "Don't come at 7:00, come at 8:00, because we are watching a program now." PICKELNER: It's gone from bad to worse since then, hasn't it? ROSENBERG: Yes. PICKELNER: Was the life of the children any different than they would have been in other communities? ROSENBERG: Not any different from their contemporaries all over the United States, I think. It was very similar. It was a simple, healthy, wonderful place to live for kids, unspoiled, just nice kids. PICKELNER: Do you remember who the mayor was, or who the governor was at the time you came? ROSENBERG: Gee, I don't know. The thing that comes back to my mind right now is Governor Jones. When he was here I don't remember. PICKELNER: It must have been early. ROSENBERG: Early on, yes. PICKELNER: How were rents? Did you pay much for rent? ROSENBERG: Rents were cheap. PICKELNER: Did you attend the little temple on 4th Street? ROSENBERG: No. That was a synagogue. We went to the temple on 122 East Culver. PICKELNER: Yes. And everybody went there. There was no synagogue, I gather, at the beginning. ROSENBERG: Yes. PICKELNER: Was there a good congregation? Did everybody sort of -- ROSENBERG: Yes. It was a good congregation. PICKELNER: And Rabbi Dow was your rabbi for awhile? ROSENBERG: That I don't remember. PICKELNER: Was Rabbi Dow the rabbi at the temple? ROSENBERG: I think he was at the synagogue. PICKELNER: What sort of a community life was there? Was there any kind of a community council or that sort of thing - a Jewish community council. or did that come later? ROSENBERG: That all came later. People gave money to different charities. PICKELNER: What were the charities? How did that work? How did giving to charities work? Did people come and collect? ROSENBERG: People came and collected, yes. Allen used to go out with friends and they would go to little communities around the state to collect money for various Jewish causes. PICKELNER: Do you remember what the charities were? ROSENBERG: You ask Allen. I'll draw a blank on that. PICKELNER: Was there an interest, for example, in -- was it just for the poor or indigent people here in Phoenix, or -- ROSENBERG: No. I, myself, came over as a Zionist from L.A. My mother and father worked for the Jewish National Fund, so I was raised with a little pushk ,ya on the table all the time and we gave money for the trees In Israel. PICKELNER: And you always worked for them for JNF? ROSENBERG: Yes. PICKELNER: And you had the Blue Box in the house. ROSENBERG: I used to stand on the corner at 6th and Main In L.A. with my little pushka in my hand and we'd give out little flags. PICKELNER: Did you do that in Phoenix, too? ROSENBERG: No, I did that in LA before we moved here. PICKELNER: When did organizations begin, the various organizations? ROSENBERG: Well, the National Council of Jewish Women Is the only thing that I can think of right now that was here. I think everything else came later. PICKELNER: Was there a Junior Council, too, do you know? ROSENBERG: There was not. It was not until all of us were around 30 years old that Mary Straus said, "Now that we are 30 we should break away from the Junior Council and Join the big Council." That's what we did. PICKELNER: Mary Straus - everybody talks about Mary Straus in those days. ROSENBERG: She was a wonderful girl, wonderful, wonderful, wonderful. PICKELNER: Leader. ROSENBERG: She was such a dear friend to all of us. PICKELNER: What sort of activities did you have with the Council of Jewish Women? ROSENBERG: We had meetings and what we discussed I haven't the remotest idea. We had regular things and parliamentary law rules. We had all of that. Because, you see, there were so many people who came here who were coming from other communities where they had establishments and they brought with them their accomplishments. PICKELNER: Did the council work for the poor in the community? Did you have milk stations and that sort of thing? ROSENBERG: Milk stations I can't think, but I can think going to Mr. Korrick at that time and to the Diamonds and if we have any Itinerants to find places for them to stay, either to stay here or to move on. They would give us sheets and blankets and towels and everything to help these people. We did a lot of that personally. Mrs. Alma Korrick worked on that a lot for the National council of Jewish Women. In the summertime I used to do what she did all the winter. I would help in the summertime. PICKELNER: Were there a lot of Indians still living in the community in those days? ROSENBERG: They would come in off the reservations. They really didn't live so much in Phoenix, as they came from reservations. PICKELNER: I know that you were later on a president of Hadassah and so on. Would you tell us something about how it happened to get started. Were you here at the time it was started and who were some of the women who helped get it started? ROSENBERG: Well, it was started in my home. There were 15 of us who signed up and that allowed us to become a chapter. We were governed out of New York. PICKELNER: And you got a charter? ROSENBERG: Yes. PICKELNER Who were the leaders? Who were the people who worked very hard in those days? ROSENBERG: Etta Mendelsohn, I can say, and Ruth Bank was here. Besides, her name is Bank, B-a-n-k, and not Banks. PICKELNER: Was Molly Friedman here? ROSENBERG: Molly Friedman was here and I think Bertha Silverman at that time was here. I think Sylvia Doro was here, but whether she was with the beginning -- Pearl Newmark was here. And Sophie Citron. I should recall them all, but at the age of 84 I forget. PICKELNER: Were there activities around the temple? ROSENBERG: Yes. We used to have little activities for the children, but I can't tell you exactly what. we used to do the Seders at the temple fox the whole congregation. PICKELNER: That's interesting. Tell us more about that. ROSENBERG: Mrs. Nathan Diamond was In charge of those Seder dinners, then we continued them on for a while. They were wonderful. PICKELNER: For the whole community. ROSENBERG: Well, for our temple. PICKELNER: When World War II came along - that was In the 40's - did it make a lot of difference In the community here? ROSENBERG: Oh, sure, because we had five flying fields around this area and they trained here - at Luke Field and Williams, down at Morano down near Tucson. There were five of them. PICKELNER: Was the community Involved with the men who were enlisted? ROSENBERG: Oh, yes. In the first place, Hadassah, at that time, was already formed. At USO, we filled in at dinnertime for the soldiers. Ida Bland, God bless her soul, she and I used to do the dinners and we couldn't get meat and stuff, so we used to get whole salamis and at her home we would grind them up. Then we would get three or four stalks of celery and chop that up and mix it up with the salami. Then we'd get the rye bread and that's what we would serve at the USO. The time that we had was one of the dinner hours. That was really something to do. We didn't have enough money -- we couldn't even buy Cokes or anything like that, so used to make a tea based punch. You make that out of the tea and then we added cans of orange juice, grapefruit juice and fresh oranges and that was the punch that we made. PICKELNER: Did they become friends with the community, I mean, did the Jewish boys, were they welcome? ROSENBERG: Oh, yes. We had Seders at Temple Beth Israel for the boys who were stationed down at Hyder and Horn. It was the Statue of Liberty group out of New York and New Jersey that came here with their own chaplain, Chaplain Barnett. He asked the temple to do something for the boys, because they had 1,200 boys down there. PICKELNER: Jewish boys? ROSENBERG: Jewish boys down in Hyder and Horn. The National council of Jewish Women took over that deal and the girl's had to make ten pounds of gefillta fish. I pull my hair out when I think that they had to make it every day for about five days for all these boys who were coming. And besides the work that they had to do in their own homes. But, we did it, and it was a wonderful experience. PICKELNER: You had to make ten pounds of fish? ROSENBERG: A day, yes, gefillta fish. We peeled sacks of carrots. It was wonderful. We had white tablecloths, we had cloth napkins. They ate off of plates, they were not paper plates and it was a wonderful experience for all the boys who came. If they wanted to bring their Gentile buddies we said, "Bring them." It was a wonderful community experience. PICKELNER: Who were some of the other rabbis that you remember who came in the early days, besides Rabbi Dow, do you remember them, especially who were the outstanding rabbis? ROSENBERG: It just doesn't stick in my mind. PICKELNER: How about your friend, Rabbi Abraham? ROSENBERG: Abraham Lincoln Krohn. PICKELNER: Yes. Tell me about him. ROSENBERG: He was a man head and shoulders above all of us. When he'd give a sermon we wouldn't know exactly what he said, but it was wonderful and it was beautiful. And he was wonderful and he was beautiful. He taught us a lot. PICKELNER: Talk about him some more. ROSENBERG: He was the one that at the Phoenix Country Club they were going to give -- the Boy Scouts, I think, were going to have a lunch and he said, "I will not attend" -- because he was interested in things like that -- "because Jewish people are not accepted." And they went someplace else. He was just a brilliant person, way ahead of his time. He wrote wonderfully. We loved him. He was just like a member of our family. PICKELNER: Did Allen get involved in temple affairs, too? ROSENBERG: Oh, yes. He was president two times. PICKELNER: Did the congregation grow? ROSENBERG: Oh, sure, it grew a lot. We had some very fine people in Temple Beth Israel in the early days. Archie Kroloff was very important to the temple in those days, and also very dear to the rabbi, and the rabbi to him, back and forth. We all just loved him. PICKELNER: Did you celebrate the holidays together, or separate families? ROSENBERG: Well, those who belonged to the temple went to the temple and, not only that, we had to wear a hat. PICKELNER: Yes, tell about that. ROSENBERG: We had to wear a hat, we had to wear white gloves and we had to have sleeves in our dresses. It was very prim. It was very proper. We've come a long way. PICKELNER: Was there a Sisterhood? ROSENBERG: Yes. We had a Sisterhood. PICKELNER: Did you have a Sunday School? ROSENBERG: Yes, sure did. PICKELNER: Rose, can you tell us more about the early days of Hadassah, how you went about things, what you did, your Board and your membership and how it grew? ROSENBERG: Well, we got started and we were very successful in just getting a lot of people to join us. We took our instructions from New York. Each president got a book about two inches thick with everything spelled out. You ran a meeting for 120 minutes and no more. It's all written down what the people do and it's all according to parliamentary law and the way Hadassah wanted things to be run. We just got to be the cream of the cream, that's all there was to it. It was really wonderful. we had wonderful speakers and I had, as my program chairman, Debby Metz - a talented, educated young woman and she was the daughter of Rabbi Jaffa. If we had a long program then we had a shorter business. If we had a long business then we had a-short -we had to time and she and I would get together and time out how much each person who would be allowed to talk, according to their reports, we had to be so -- I don't know if there's that circumscript now or not -- like we were in the beginning. But we did have a good organization. PICKELNER: Did you have dinners, like a donor dinner? ROSENBERG: Oh, yes. We had one wonderful dinner. I think it was - the year 1949 comes to my mind. I couldn't stand before a group of people and conduct a meeting, because I was too timid in those days. I could conduct our meetings, but then when you got all these people and all these tables and all this stuff it was too much for me, so Allen ran the program for me. He was chairman for that dinner. For doing that he was named "Mr. Hadassah". PICKELNER: He was a wonderful chairman, I know. You met a lot of people from New York, didn't you, the bigwigs? ROSENBERG: From Hadassah, oh, yes. They really did guide us, gently. Then, when we brought the Israeli Symphony orchestra we wanted to take it on as two groups here doing it, the Zionist Men and us. Hadassah told us, "You cannot go with anyone else, you have to go by yourself." PICKELNER: Do you remember the year, Rose? ROSENBERG: I think it's 1935, but I don't know. PICKELNER: Oh, no. It was later than '35. ROSENBERG: Then it would be about '45. PICKELNER: No, it was later than that, because I was president, so it must have been 1954. ROSENBERG: Okay, '54, that's okay, yes. And we did it. It was a big struggle. we worked for that. PICKELNER: What did you do to make it successful? ROSENBERG: We just went to everybody to buy tickets. PICKELNER: How about advertising? ROSENBERG: We let Mrs. Linde do most of that for us. I don't know about us doing some of the advertising. We did a lot of the soliciting. PICKELNER: Do you remember how they advertised in the store windows? ROSENBERG: Oh, well, with posters. Yes, we did do that. PICKELNER: Can you tell about that evening? ROSENBERG: Well, Dr. Kussevitzky was supposed to conduct the whole symphony -- oh, and we had it at the gymnasium at Phoenix Union High School. The air conditioning was awful, but they listened to the music anyhow. He got sick In Los Angeles and he sent his protégée in his place and it turned out to be Leonard Bernstein. It was the first time he took the podium in place of Dr. Kussevitzky. We put notice in the paper that Dr. Kussevitzky got sick In Los Angeles and his protégée would be here and if you did not like the concert we'd give you your money back. We had Mrs. Linde here - God bless her soul - she ran it for us and give us what was coming to us, which was less than we thought we should have - but it worked out okay. PICKELNER: I know we were one of the most successful in the country, as I recall. ROSENBERG: Yes,, we were. PICKELNER: That was lovely. Now, how did you happen to get involved in all these other activities, like the museum? ROSENBERG: I did all of the bar mitzvahs, and in those days, not many bat mitzvahs, at temple for about 20 years. I did all the luncheons and I got tired of it, so I said, "I quit." I started looking for something else where I would benefit more than what I did being in the kitchen for so long. PICKELNER: 20 years, did you say? R0SENBERG: Yes. Evelyn Effron lived across the alley from me and she was telling me about starting up a group at the Phoenix Art museum of the women to do things for them, you see. So, I went with her to the first meeting and that was in about 1959, I guess. I've been a Docent ever since. PICKELNER: Who was it that went with you? ROSENBERG: Evelyn Effron. Her husband was Ralph. She was a lovely woman. PICKELNER: You went to a meeting to organize -- ROSENBERG: The Docent program. PICKELNER: What did that consist of? ROSENBERG: There were about, oh, 12 or 14 or 15 of us that started the group. We had a first girl who set the tone and the tempo and the way that girls got along with each other and, I think, to this day, the Docent program is so outstanding because each girl that came along did it likewise. There were Jewish girls and Gentiles, which you didn't know which was who and, to this day, you don't know which is who. All of the girls were really wonderful, competent, capable, eager to learn, wanting to do, wanting to teach, and it's always been that way, as each girl has formed her own year when she served it has always been that way. PICKELNER: It must have been a nice place to work. Did you take groups around, is that what you did? ROSENBERG: Yes, we did. And we learned. We had assignments and things and we learned. We'd go down there on Friday mornings and then from Friday to the next Friday there would be different girls giving tours. It just blossomed out to be a wonderful group. PICKELNER: What other activities were you involved in that showed the growth of the city and so on? ROSENBERG: I guess in the library, the library has certainly grown. PICKELNER: Talk about your library work, how you became involved in that. ROSENBERG: Well, the mayor of Phoenix at that time wanted to have me join the library group and his name was Stewart. I don't remember whether his name was Stewart and something, or which way it goes. I can't remember right now. Anyway, I was on the board for about 10 years, and it has grown. The city has grown. We have some very nice branches now, which we didn't have in that day. We got started down there on about 9th Avenue and Washington in that building that Carnegie built for Phoenix. Then, when we moved down to Central and McDowell, we were already big in the city. PICKELNER: The original Carnegie Library was where, did you say? ROSENBERG: About 9th Avenue and Washington. It was a beautiful building. PICKELNER: It was built by the Carnegie? ROSENBERG: They gave it to the city of Phoenix. PICKELNER: What was your job like as member of the board? ROSENBERG: Well, to buy books, to hire people, to fire people, to do things like that. We had Jane Hudgens who was in charge. PICKELNER: Jane Hutchinson? ROSENBERG: Hudgens. PICKELNER: She was head librarian for many years? ROSENBERG: Yes. And after her came a man, Mr. Henderson. PICKELNER: What else did you get involved in as time went on that showed the growth of the city and so on? How long did you serve on the library board? ROSENBERG: About ten years. And I think that's it. Oh, on the Planning Commission. PICKELNER: Oh, yes, you were on many commissions. ROSENBERG: For six years. PICKELNER: For the library? ROSENBERG: For the Planning Commission. I was on the board for six years. PICKELNER: For the City? ROSENBERG: Yes. PICKELNER: And there was another commission you were on, wasn't there? ROSENBERG: The Leap Commission. PICKELNER: What was that? ROSENBERG: That was to help people help themselves, help poor people help themselves. PICKELNER: What was the name of that? ROSENBERG: I can't give it to you, but it was the Leap Commission. PICKELNER: Did Allen remain in the drug store business? ROSENBERG: Oh, no. We sold our store. We had it eight years. We gave it to Skaggs. PICKELNER: What did Allen do? ROSENBERG: He ran the business. PICKELNER: No, but after he left the store. ROSENBERG: He went into the grain business with Terrence Manley and Archie Kroloff. [Second side of tape erased? end of transcript]