..inte: David Rebibo ..intr: Dorothy Pickelner ..da: 1992 ..ca: ..ftxt: Interview with DAVID REBIBO November 17, 1992 Transcriptionist: Carol Ruttan Interviewer: Dorothy Pickelner Log for David Rebibo Interview Page(s) 1 Leaving Morocco 1 School in France 1 Marriage at age 18 2 Arrival in New York 2 Move to Memphis 4- 5 Move to Phoenix - 1965 Dr. Joseph Kaminsky Dr. Sheldon Zinn Helen Pion Jack Sheinbein Arthur Spitz Leon Goldberg Jack Finkelstein Leon Leonson 5- 7 Start of day school Zena Sobol Arthur Spitz Leon Leonson Sheldon Zinn 7-9 Development of school curriculum 9-10 Growth of school Leon Leonson 10 Jewish Community Council 10-11 Education of children Joel Deborah Daniel Michael Jackie 11-12 School as it is today 13 Students' religious affiliations 13 School faculty 14 Israel Program Belle Latchman 15 Educational director Joel Rebibo Rabbi Koopennan 16 Challenge of teaching Jewish values 17 Adult Jewish education 18 Community involvement 19 Jewish Education Council Zach Merrin Phil Chapman 19 Federation 19 Israel bonds 19 Jewish Family Service 19 Arizona State Prison Chaplain Rabbi David Rebibo Interivew Pickelner: We're very happy to have you here. We know you have a very valuable record to leave with us of your experiences and your work here in Phoenix, Arizona. But first of all, Rabbi, I want to know how it is that you came from North Africa, from Morocco, to Phoenix. When and how come? Rebibo: Well, first of all, Dorothy, I'd like to say what a pleasure it is to be here with you. As you know, I have been here for almost 28 years, so I have seen you active and operate in all endeavors of the community. So, I have shared many years here with you and I have witnessed a lot of the activities that you have been involved with, so it's a pleasure being with you this morning. Just the fact of spending this hour or so together is certainly worth everything. Pickelner: Thank you. Rebibo: How did I get from Morocco to here? It's been a long, long, long journey. My first trip from Morocco was when I was approximately 11 years old. My father passed away early and I was sent to Yeshiva, early in the game, in France. In Yeshiva I was considered a good, good prominent student and, therefore, I was accepted earlier than it was usual. I went back to Morocco for my bar mitzvah about two years later and then, immediately after the bar mitzvah, I got back again to the Yeshiva in France. So I was in France from the age of my bar mitzvah til approximately, I think, about the age of 16 or 17 or so. From the Yeshiva in France, which is about on the Switzerland border, I went in to Paris. I was accepted at the University of Paris. One thing led to the other and I landed in law school at the University of Paris. At the same time, to support myself, I was able to get a part-time job teaching in a day school in Paris. That was my first exposure to day school education. In Paris, of course, I had the good fortune of meeting my wife, who was a Parisian. Of course, we got married in Paris. I was 18, she was 17 and, as her father would say, both of us barely made 35 at that time. Once we were married I came to New York, first, to check the situation. I was actually invited by a very famous and prominent, one of the grand rabbis, who's the head of the Mirer Yeshiva Institute in Brooklyn, New York. I was given the opportunity to do, so to speak, graduate studies part-time and teach part-time in one of the day schools in Brooklyn. Once I have been there for about six or seven months it was possible my wife and I wanted to settle in the United States. I came, incidentally, on a student visa. Once it was clear in my mind that this was where I wanted to settle, I sent for my wife. I met her in Canada and we waited both there for a regular immigrant visa. Then we came in, and I think that was in 1954 with a regular visa, we stayed in New York. We stayed in Brooklyn for awhile. We lived in what was called then Brownsville, in New York, at the time - an old Jewish neighborhood in those days. At that time I continued to teach and continue my graduate studies simultaneously until the time that my wife said if we're going to raise a family that New York was not the place. She wanted to be out of New York. I took a teaching job in Memphis with the Memphis Hebrew Academy and so we went to Memphis, I think, in 1956. So, I was in Memphis for approximately 8 or 9 years. After that we went on a sabbatical to Israel, a sabbatical on my own account, of course. In those days, day schools didn't pay and until today they don't pay sabbaticals. We felt it was important for the entire family to take a year off. It was a marvelous year, really, for the entire family. We had four children at the time. We spent the entire year in Israel. In fact, what we did was, I remember in the morning we had a program where my children went to school and I went to school. So, I went to Yeshiva for further, again, post-graduate studies in the Yeshiva Slabotkateshiva in B'nai Brak. We lived right by , so we walked together. I was finished with my graduate studies at approximately 1:00 and the children came home about that time and we used to spend all the afternoons, my wife, myself and the four children, hiking and going to different places and visiting Israel. There was one afternoon as I was studying in B'nai Brak in the Slabotkateshiva that Dr. Joseph Kaminsky, who was the head of the National Association of Hebrew Day Schools at the time was visiting with a delegation of American rabbis. The delegation came to visit the Slabotkateshiva where I was learning at the time. Of course, I was always a protégée of Dr. Kaminsky because I was active for many years in the National Association of Day Schools. When he saw me there studying he said, "What are doing here, Rebibo?" I informed him that I was on sabbatical and was spending my sabbatical wisely by sitting down and having a program of learning every morning for several hours. Well, at that time, he says, "David, I have something for you. Once you are through with your sabbatical and come to New York, you must come to see me. Promise me you'll come." Which I did, of course. When we came to New York at the end of our sabbatical, I went to see him, whereupon, the first thing he said to me, "David, have you ever heard of Phoenix, Arizona?" I looked at him and said, "Phoenix? Where is that?" At that time, frankly, it could have been in Latin America or someplace else. I'd never heard of it before. He showed me the United States map and there were pins on different cities throughout the United States. He says, "You see this map of the United States. David, everywhere there is a pin there is a Hebrew day school. You know, there are over 400 day schools throughout the country. You know, Phoenix, Arizona has 10,000 Jews." And that's what it had at the time. He says, "It is the only city in America with 10,000 Jews without a day school." At that time I said, "I have four children, I have a commitment to go back to Memphis where I was supposed to start a high school. There is no way I could see going myself to start from scratch. After long hours of discussion he extracted a promise from me just to come on a survey, just to look over the situation and at least tell him if I feel the community is ready for a day school or not. Incidentally, I had done that for him in different other cities before when I was in the day school. I would make trips to New Orleans and other places on a survey level. So, I accepted. Whereupon, as soon as we camped in Memphis and got installed in Memphis, then I flew to Phoenix. When I flew to Phoenix I was met by a group which consisted of Dr. Sheldon Zinn, Helen Pion, Jack Sheinbein, Arthur Spitz, Leon Goldberg, Jack Finkelstein and Leon Leonson. This was the main group. I met with them at a motel called the Los Olivos Motel at the time. There was a, so to speak, luncheon where they were supposed to look me over and I was, of course, looking the city over. I mean, first of all, I do have to say that I really did fall in love with the city, the climate. Because, number one, it was very much like what I was raised in - Morocco, the climate, the scenery. Everything was very much alike. One thing led to another. I recommended to Dr. Kaminsky that this city, with 10,000 Jews, obviously is ready to get started and that there is no illusion about it. Like all the beginnings are very difficult, but, nevertheless, there was no reason to wait any further and that he should send somebody dedicated to start a day school. Whereupon, he says that that somebody is me. He proceeded to talk and convince my wife, who was much harder, in fact, to convince, than myself. Once he spoke to my wife then the decision finally was made. They contacted the Memphis people who released me from my commitment to them. Then we came in. We started, actually, coming in right after Pesach, in April or beginning of May just to look over the situation. Finally, in the summer, we came here before starting anything to start the school all the way from scratch. That's how we got all the way from Morocco to Phoenix, Arizona. Pickelner: That's most interesting, Rabbi. That solves a number of problems and answers a number of questions. I'm waiting to hear how you liked our summers, whether they were like Moroccan summers. But it explains a great deal and I must say we all feel very fortunate that this took place. Now, when you discuss what happens now in Phoenix after your very interesting career in getting here, tell us something about your family and how you got settled and who the people were, which you have already indicated to some extent who helped you and how in the world did you ever get such a wonderful location? Rebibo: I remember that, in the beginning, the summer was quite hot. However, they were different a little bit from the climate I was born and raised in because it was drier here. Our climate in Morocco was much more humid. Pickelner: What year was that? Rebibo: It was 1965. Of course, you know, air conditioning made things more comfortable and bearable. But, in those days, the early days, my main concern was, number one, finding a place, a location, a facility to start the school, finding the plant, the physical plant. Number two, how to sell the idea of a day school, which was obviously not exactly the most popular idea of the time. In those days, as I started looking I met a woman by the name of Zena Sobol. Zena Sobol informed me that her husband had left $5,000 to be used by a school, a day school, as seed money to get started. Zena Sobol told me that the money was available if we decide to go full-blast on it. And furthermore, she did offer a little building they had way out on Camelback. At that time, of course, I was very pleased and very happy to have that to start with. After I visited the little building, the temporary building, which was used for builders and contractors at the time, I saw that, number one, the location was way out from where Jews were living at the time, and number two, the building itself was not conducive for classroom teaching. So, certainly, while of course we took advantage of the offer of having the funds available to get started for start-up costs, at the same time we felt that the location was not the proper location, nor the physical plant was appropriate for starting a school. Whereupon, I started on a hunt for finding locations. Believe it or not, I was here the very beginning of the summer and we were looking and looking and looking for locations and I remember about five or six weeks before school started we still did not have a location. In the meantime, while I was looking for locations, in the evenings we had parlor meetings. I managed to speak to different people - to invite different people to homes - so I could go and speak to them and talk to them about the purpose of the school, the objective of the school. It was a very difficult task, because this was novel, it was different. In addition, I have to say there was a great deal of apprehension, a great deal of fear about it, taking the children out of public school. In those days the idea of full day Hebrew school was not exactly popular. Some of them used to think it was un-American to do such a thing, others were frightened of having an "Orthodox" day school. There were those who were afraid as to what it might do to their home, to their personal observance. So there was a great deal of battles to be won, a great deal of people to convince that this is the right thing. I think about four weeks or so before school started I was driving down Bethany Home Road and I saw a sign for sale. I stopped there and I saw this gorgeous home, a beautiful home. I really fell in love with it right away on the spot. Number one, it was the right location as far as being centrally located. One thing led to the other. I think within days we made a deal where we purchased the present location, believe it or not, with a $10,000 down payment, which, of course, was all borrowed from the bank. Pickelner: Oh, you had to borrow it. Rebibo: There was no money, obviously. Pickelner: Who were the people who were involved in helping you? Rebibo: I must say that the people who helped me at the time, I think financially, I'd say Arthur Spitz was tremendously helpful. Leon Leonson was also very helpful. At the time, of course, I remember we had to sign a note. Sheldon Zinn and Arthur Spitz ended up signing the note. I remember meeting with the bank just to sign a note for us to have the $10,000 to be used as a deposit for the home. In retrospect, it was the greatest buy ever at that time. Pickelner: Did you have enough room in the house itself to start the school and how were you able to get parents to send their children to the school? Rebibo: Obviously, this was a house. So, that means that we had four weeks to turn it into a school. We were able to, at least, get all kinds of volunteers to do painting, a little carpentry and all sorts of things. We had four weeks to get that house ready to look like the old concept of the little red school for all the grades together. Obviously, for the first year or two that location and that facility was enough. We didn't have a place to eat lunch, like a lunchroom. For the first two years we ate outside all the time. So, we built a sukka and we used that sukka as the lunchroom all year around, if you can believe, including the winter. The children put on their coats and they ate outside. Pickeiner: What kind of a curriculum did you devise and how many grades did you have at first and how did it develop? What kind of school spirit were you able to develop? Rebibo: It was really very interesting. First of all, we figured that if we were to start grade by grade we barely would have I I or 10 students to start with. I personally opted for starting several grades at the same time, so I ended up saying let's start immediately with kindergarten through grade 6 or grade 7, if I recall. So that by opening it to all grades we were able to have, on opening day, 40 students, which was really a miracle in itself. Obviously, we had to combine such things as second and third grade, and fourth and fifth were combined. So, from that angle, it was really quite a miraculous start. Second, of course, was the curriculum. First of all, obviously, I got hold of the National Association of Day Schools, who provided me with all kinds of curriculum material and advice in counseling. Of course, I was in touch with the State Department of Education here to find out what they were doing. At the same time I contacted some private schools, I believe it was Judson and Country, just to see what their curriculum was. From that we forged our own curriculum. I must say that the spirit was actually extraordinary. When we opened, the relationship was wann, absolutely incredible - it was like a big family. In those days, my wife was teaching and I was teaching. So, in addition to my teaching I had to worry about everything else - managing things, raising the funds, etc., etc., and what have you. Pickelner: I remember those days and how we all watched to see how it was going to come out and gradually, I know that it developed into a full eight grades curriculum. How did you fare? How did it compare, for example, with your teaching in English and the requirements of the State? Rebibo: In reality, as far as being able to comply or even surpass the State requirement, that was, frankly, the easiest test for us. That was not a problem. I could tell you that, today, we have an enviable record. When you look back on the 28 years we have been in the business, you can see graduates of ours that have absolutely excelled in every high school in the city. We have reached the point where different high schools now contact us to provide them with lists, because they have seen what our students have been able to achieve. We have numerous testimony from different heads and counselors from high schools praising the level of our students. Specifically, for example, this past year our eighth grade class took an algebra test while they were in eighth grade, which is citywide. The entire class was given credit for high school so that they don't have to take algebra anymore. Furthermore, not only the entire class got credit, the entire class got it with honors. The city told us there has been nobody, nobody that ever had such a record. Our students have been at Yale, Harvard, certainly Berkeley, we've had all the top universities where our students have been accepted and have absolutely excelled. As I said, the high schools today, really, when they see someone from the Hebrew Academy, immediately they know what to expect. So, it's been an enviable record from that angle. Pickelner: How were you received in the community and what were your relations with the community? I know that our friendship, for example, began because we were all working for the same causes in the general community. This is most interesting. Will you talk a little about that? Rebibo: I always separate the years into waves. I always say that the first seven years were called the years of famine. They were the years of famine because, on one hand, we were faced with a lot of problems. We were charging next to nothing as far as tuition is concerned. Maybe it's possible that tuition covered maybe 10 to 15% of the budget. So, we had 85 to 90% of the budget that had to be raised, which meant that I had to spend a great deal of my time worrying about money, raising money. This really taxed my tiirne. In my search and attempt, of course, to secure funds to run the school, one of the sources I thought of turning to was the Federation. One has to remember that, in those days, again, the concept of Hebrew day school was very novel, not as universally accepted as it is today. People were apprehensive about supporting it. In fact, most rabbis in the community were not in favor of the school at the time. Of course, that changed in later years. In those days, Jewish education was not part of the agenda. There was no such thing as a community adult institute, nothing of the sort. Jewish education really became a matter of discussion for the first time when Hebrew Academy applied for funds. For a few years the Academy went on seeking and applying for an allocation and being politely ignored or turned down. I don't remember the exact year - it must have been past our seventh year - finally -- perhaps through the efforts of many, among them Leon Leonson who was at the time one of the biggest givers. He had made it a point saying that he couldn't see how he was going to continue supporting the community drive. At the time it wasn't called the Federation, it was called the Jewish Community Council. He said he wasn't going to continue to support it, or he couldn't support it at the level that he was doing it unless the Academy and Jewish education was given the proper attention it deserved. Pickelner: What year was that? Rebibo: I'm not sure. It could be our seventh or eighth year, probably. Pickelner: In the 70's. Rebibo: Somewhere in the 70's, right. Pickelner: Talk about your family, the growing family in this community during those years and then we'll come back to the other. Rebibo: My family. Well, when I came into Phoenix I had quite a challenge because we came in with four children. My children, who were at the time in 7th grade and 5th and on, were at a disadvantage because they were advanced in the Hebrew studies. So, they had to be given private tutoring by myself as far as Hebrew was concerned. I think about after my second year here I sent my son, Joel, out of town to Denver, Colorado to continue his studies over there. About two years later I sent my daughter, Deborah, also to Denver, Colorado to a special high school so they could continue their studies over there, because Phoenix just didn't have the facilities for them. Ultimately, every one of my children, then Daniel and then Michael, all ended up going out of town for their high school studies as there was not facility here beyond the eighth grade. We did have one child here whose name was Jackie. He was, of course, Phoenix born and Phoenix grown. He was home grown here. So, for him, of course, there was a day school. But, for all the other four children they had to make an adjustment. In order to really keep up with their studies I had to make special arrangements for them through private tutoring, until they were able to go out of town for high school. It was quite a challenge, but it was a very rewarding challenge, because I think the children were able to witness the work that both their parents, my wife and myself, not really struggling, but working and be part of that pioneering and building effort. It was quite rewarding to see how it was possible and to be part of that joy of building from scratch and enjoy the rewards of it. Pickelner: It certainly was a pioneering effort. That was a good term for it. I know that all your children thrived. I was fortunate enough to be a guest at your daughter's wedding, which was the first really Orthodox wedding most of us here had ever seen and we remember it in great detail. What a beautiful, beautiful evening that was. Now, would you talk about the school today, 1992, about your enrollment and have things eased up any? I know education doesn't ever have it easy. Rebibo: Well, you know the old adage "Little children, little problems; bigger children, bigger problems." Today, of course, since the early days of that original house, we've made additional acquisitions so that our overall campus is maybe, approximately, 12 times the size of what we started originally with. We now have a campus of approximately five acres of land. We have new buildings which were constructed somewhere in the 70's. We have approximately 20,000 square feet to a house, number one, and an entire elementary school curriculum with all the classes, with a science lab, with a playground for different grade levels, a special playground for older students, a very custom-made designed for younger students playground. We have an auditorium with stage, a sanctuary, of course, kitchens. So we have quite a physical plant which is operating. Our student body right now numbers around 150 to 160 students. We've been varying between that all the time. Our budget, from the earlier years when it used to be maybe $70,000 to $80,000, is now approximately $700,000 to $750,000. Talk about 28 years later. Nowadays, certainly, we've been recognized by a number of educational institutions, we've been awarded many awards, not only in the city but even nationally. The Phoenix Hebrew Academy has been twice awarded by the National Association the most outstanding school, the most innovative school awards. That's, of course, out of over 550 day schools. Certainly, we have made our marks. I think the community has been able to recognize the quality of the program, the quality of education. We've made our mark from this perspective and this context. We are in the business of education and the business of education is always a challenge. No matter how far and how many awards you've had and how many achievements you've had, still the challenge is ahead of you. From this aspect, today's challenge is just as much as it was 28 years ago, because we have a much greater task - more students, the times have changed, times are different. 28 years ago, maybe 90% of the mothers were at home. Today, 90% of the mothers are working mothers. 28 years ago, maybe not even 5% of the children came from single homes - not even. Today, a single home is part of the American scene. Many students come from a single home - either divorce, separation or what have you. So, the challenges are always, of course, present, so we must go on. Pickelner: Yes, these are the difficult times that we all live in. The world of education is suffering more than some of the other institutions in the world. What were your religious affiliations and did you ever have children that were not Orthodox? Rebibo: Throughout the existence of the Academy, incidentally, I think we were very successful in trying to, on one hand, not deceive anybody by presenting ourselves exactly as we were - that this was an Orthodox day school with an Orthodox program designed, so to speak, to be marketed to a community- wide audience, a community-wide parent body. The student body has always had approximately a third, a third, a third. Last year, if I recall, I think we had about 28% of our student body coming from Reform congregations. We had about 34% coming from the Conservative congregations and then we had about 30-some odd percent from the Orthodox and then some from the unaffiliated. In this context I think the school really has done an outstanding job in being able to present a program and to actually execute it - a program that's been able to address itself to the Conservative, Reform and Orthodox - all across the strata. From that angle, it's very rare that you'll find this in other day schools in the country. In most other day schools you're going to find them either 90, 95% Orthodox or vice versa if they are Reform or Conservative. So, from that angle, we really are a community day school in this context. Pickelner: That's most interesting, rabbi. What about your faculty? Were you able to get faculty that could handle this kind of a mixture and were some of them not even Jewish and how large a faculty do you have for this wonderful school? Rebibo: The faculty, obviously, is the most, perhaps, critical aspect, as far as a personnel point of view. That is where I spend a great deal of time. I have been known to interview 40 people for one position until I finally would make up my mind. Number one, from the general studies we've been able to choose -- we've had a great deal of choice. We were able to choose some of the very best. We have teachers that have taught with us over 20 years and are still with us - in the general studies department. We have, in the Hebrew department - that's usually quite a task and quite a challenge, because the Hebrew department staff I have to go and find it all over. We have to bring them from wherever it is in America, mostly in the East. We started a program, called the Israel Program, ten years ago. That is a program designed to bring Israel to the Hebrew Academy. A program designed to bring Israel not for a week, a day or a month, but for two to three years at a time. We contacted the Jewish agency which has a special program of training special teachers from Israel to teach. We embarked about ten years ago by bringing here a couple from Israel that stayed with us for two years. They teach, not only religious subjects, Hebrew subjects and, most of all, about Israel, so that our students learn, not only about their religious curriculum but that they learn about that is Hebrew as a language. They also learn a great deal from these Israeli teachers about Israel the country, the history, the culture of the country. It's the one place and the only place where you can go and you can see anywhere a child being exposed to a curriculum that teaches Israel, not only on independence day, but on a daily basis. The culture, the language, the traditions, the customs of Israel, the music of Israel. It's unique, a program that's quite unique. The teachers stay with us for approximately three years, then they go back home to Israel and then we start again. I have to say the following: This program we made possible by none other than Belle Latchman. It was Belle Latchman that made it possible for us to start the program by having a very substantial fund that was specifically earmarked to allow for this particular program. This, really, was thanks to Belle Latchman. May God bless her memory. Pickelner: That's most interesting. Was this left in her will? Rebibo: Yes. Pickeiner: I know how interested Belle always was in the school and how much she treasured your and Odette's friendship. What about the new head of the school? Can you talk about that? Are you still the superintendent, so to speak, and what do I hear about that? Rebibo: Well, about 12 years ago, my son became the educational director of the Academy. Pickelner: His name? Rebibo: Joel, my son, Joel Rebibo, became the educational director of the school. Therefore, he was able to assist me and relieve me of some of the grinding things of the day to day supervision of curriculum, supervision of teachers and staff, so that I was able to concentrate on some of the other things. So, I assumed the position of dean of the Academy. My son came on the premise that he was going to be with me for five years and after that he and his wife would leave for Israel when their children have attained school age. Exactly as planned, when his first born reached the age of kindergarten it was time for him to live in Israel. To this day, of course, they live in Jerusalem. Subsequently, of course, I have engaged and hired another educational director by the name of Rabbi Kooperman. Rabbi Kooperman today is the educational director. The educational director's function, of course, is to supervise the teachers on a day-to-day basis and to check on the progress of the curriculum. It's called quality control. That needs somebody that's there every day from 8 to 5 and tests and supervision and to see how we're doing, to make sure that the curriculum doesn't depend entirely on my being there or not being there. Because of my functions and everything, sometimes I may have to be away, I may have to attend conferences, I may have to go different places for different public relations functions. It demands that I may not be there certain hours of school, but since we don't want, obviously, the school to suffer, the educational director was created about 12 years ago to address that particular need. Of course, Rabbi Kooperman reports to me all the time, we have meetings, I have periodical reports of what's going on as far as the academic program of the Academy. Pickelner: This is most interesting. With all your hard work and your intelligent guidance for the school, it has grown into a wonderful institution. What do you foresee in the future? Young people today are not quite what they were before. They don't even pay that much attention to their parents' wishes and I wondered how you were foreseeing what you think will be the future of your school? Rebibo: 28 years ago when we came in we thought of the idea of a day school. We thought of the idea of a day school because there was a challenge. A challenge that couldn't be met any other way other than a day school. The challenge is how to pass on, how to transmit, how to teach Jewish values to our children, how to prepare our children, how to give them the best of both worlds. On the one hand, they should be prepared to go through life equipped educationally, but also, simultaneously, equipped Jewishly to face the challenges and trials of life. We all know the attrition, Jewishly speaking. As Jews we have succeeded marvelously in getting our children through colleges - we've done marvelous. Unfortunately, we haven't had a successful record, Jewishly speaking, we haven't managed to have our children, our child or our son, the doctor, my son, the professor, my son, the lawyer, but we, who used to call - we used to be called today, the overwhelming majority of our people - they're lawyers, they're Ph.D.'s, they're physicians, but when it comes to their Jewish knowledge and their Jewish real classic sources, they barely, barely can pass the first grade level. So, from this angle it has been our challenge in a sense. Today, if anything -- we don't have to really illustrate here the attrition and the problems created by assassination. As we look ahead, those problems are still with us. Assimilation has, unfortunately, done and taken away from Judaism a great deal more than all the Holocaust combined in our Jewish history. In this context, we still have a problem. We have a problem how to teach our young how to teach them Jewish values. But the same problem exists on the high school level and the adult education level. It's still a task teaching Jewish values, teaching from the sources, from the classics. We very often mistake Jewish education with perhaps the sources, the Torah education. In Jewish education courses it can have dancing, making, woodworking, you can have candle making. That's fine, but to transmit Jewish values we need to study the sources, the classics, a serious approach to study - not the one time a week, not the twice a week, but you need the serious approach to study. None of us would think that an eighth grade education is sufficient to go through life, but we easily think that the Sunday school education in Judaism is enough, or bar mitzvah is enough. But the reality is to be able to go on and to prosper as a Jew, Jewishly speaking, you have to commit seriously to the pursuit of study, serious study of the classics and the sources. That still remains our task. We may have done a job on the elementary level in the school, but the same job exists on the high school level and the adult. It still is a vacuum on the high school level, on the adult education level. Pickelner: I understand the difficulties, of course. Does that mean that somewhere along the way here you're going to have to establish a Yeshiva? Rebibo: Whether it is a Yeshiva, whether it is some other form of institution, there is a need to learn and we must provide that need, we must recognize it and meet that need. Certainly in the case of adults, we're not going to be able to send adults to Yeshiva. But adults must have opportunities to learn serious studies. Not type that we can learn in the books which summarize our things, but serious studies. Adults must be convinced - we have to sell them on the idea - that to grow, to be intelligent - Jewishly intelligent - it takes commitment. We have to study. Pickelner: Have any of your students from the past gone on to the rabbinate? Rebibo: Yes. Two. Believe it or not, none other than Arthur Spitz' son himself. Arthur Spitz, who was so instrumental as I mentioned in the beginning, his son first graduated from university as a lawyer. After he worked as a lawyer for awhile he decided that that exactly wasn't for him. He went to rabbinical school and today is a rabbi in Irvine, California and a very successful rabbi at that. Pickelner: Has he graduated? Rebibo: Absolutely. He's been around for several years already. Pickelner: Now, just to come back to Phoenix itself, because fortunately for us, you have not only put all your energies into the school, but you've been very visible in our community. What changes have you seen, besides just growing bigger? How do you think our community has developed? Rebibo: First of all, the idea of a day school, to me, was a starting point. According to Jewish law the beginning of education is with the young. But, obviously, we're not in a position to say that by educating the young we have resolved all of our problems. Now, we -- at least I personally -- have always felt that we are in a community. No day school, no matter how successful it is can feel that it has made an achievement or succeeded unless it is living in a tight community and that you're part and parcel of the community. So, I've always made it my effort, given it all the effort I could, to participate and to be part of other endeavors in the community. In this context, certainly, I was involved and I am still involved with the federation, which has developed to be quite a vigorous and quite a growing institution today, which serves the entire community by monitoring and administering all activities throughout the community - being the central agency of the community. This is something we didn't have before. Kashruth was non-existent when we came in. We used to import everything from either Los Angeles or from Memphis or from New York. Today, there is a Vaad Hakashr-uth organization that's supportive and that's not only for the Orthodox, it's for everybody, including the Conservative and even -- and it's. That's been a very good service. We've made it our business to participate in other efforts. I remember when myself and Zach Merrin and Phil Chapman, when we got together and formed the first Jewish Education Council. When we started, with the help of Faye Gross, when we started the first Jewish high school. That was important that progress in this area be made and all segments of the Jewish community. I was a part of that. I was chairman for two or three years of that Education Council. In those days, we met mainly in Beth Israel for many years. We have always felt that I am living in a community I have to participate and be part of that community. I've been involved with the Federation, I've been involved with Israel bonds, I was a board member for over two years for the Jewish Family Service and for about six years I was the Arizona State Prison Chaplain. This is a service. I never looked upon myself that my area was the day school and then the community. Certainly, this is not the way it's supposed to be and I have to be community-minded and it is within this context that we approach all of our endeavors in Jewish life, to be community involved. Pickelner: Thank you, rabbi. Is there anything else you would like to talk about in regards to your position in the community or with the school or the outlook? Do you think we're growing, going backwards? Rebibo: I remember after the first year we were here, Zach Merrin, may he rest in peace, made a statement and said, "It's very possible that not everybody's going to be able to agree with the Academy and not everybody will be able to go to the Academy." But he said Jewish education will never be the same anymore because now everybody, everybody that's involved in any way, shape or form in Jewish education has to readjust. I think the Academy, in a sense, has put Jewish education, not only on the agenda, but put it on the table to be discussed, to be debated, to be evaluated, but no longer somewhere in some file, some dormant file, but today Jewish education, at least, has become part and parcel of our priorities. I think, in this context, in this alone, I think the Academy has performed a valuable service for the entire Jewish community, for all aspects, at least. So, that's number one. Pickelner: Do you think our set-up right now, with the director and so on, is doing the job? Rebibo: I don't think we're ever doing the job. I don't think -- no educator can always be satisfied. I am still dissatisfied and I am still frustrated, because as many things as I have achieved, there are more things that I have yet to achieve. None of us can feel that we can sit and rest on our reputation, because the problems are still ahead of us, the challenges are still ahead of us. We are growing, we are getting people from different parts of the community who have a tendency, as you know, to just hide and disappear. We have to make it our business to reach out. It is easy, of course, to meet the needs to come to you and those who realize it's important, but what happens when a great majority of the people don't even realize and don't even want it and are out of touch. It is still our responsibility to reach out to all of those. Pickelner: Thank you, rabbi. Thank you not only for this interview, but for the Jewish Academy and for all it has done, for those who are interested and its influence on the rest of the community. I'm sure you, yourself, must feel a sense of great accomplishment when you look over the years and see what has happened. Thank you. Rebibo: My pleasure. [end of transcript]