..inte:

Brenda Meckler

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Dorothy Pickelner

..da:

1984

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1991.004.001.06
Scene from Brenda Meckler’s pageant, To Be Free, 1954, commemorating 300 years of 
Jewish life in America.

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..ftxt:





An Interview

with

Brenda Meckler

August 30, 1984

Transcriptionist: Carol Ruttan 

Interviewer: Dorothy Pickelner

Arizona Jewish Historical Society

Log For

Brenda Meckler Interview

Pages

1 Arrived Phoenix - age 18

2 Father planned to farm

2 Means of travel

3 First apartment - 2nd Street & Pierce Sam Wilson

4 Father opened clothing store

4 Passed State teacher's exam

4-5 First teaching job - Laveen

5-6 Citizenship papers - 1921

7 527 East Adams house

7 Witness to citizenship Morris Meckler

7-8 Abraham Goodman family

8 Sold first story American Hebrew

9-10 Jewish life Pearl Edelman

Harry Friedman

10 Sunday school superintendent Philip Raamone

10 Brenda as Sunday School teacher

11 2nd Street & Culver temple

11-12 Social life Dr. Liknaitz

Pearl Edelman

Beatrice Miller

Ms. Cohen

Ruth Schwartz

13-14 Phoenix Little Theater Katherine McCluskey

Lillias Walton

Beth Bannister

Corrine Bledsoe

Dr. Howell Randolph

Josephine Randolph

Vira Driscoll

Imogene Jennings

Sarah Rosenthal

Emil Wachtel

15 Rabbi Dow

15 Split in Beth Israel

15 Conservatives want own synagogue 4th St. & Fillmore

15 Morris Meckler becomes president of Beth El

15 Rabbi Dow officiates in 1930's

16 Rabbi Barack hired Rabbi Barack

16 Brenda involved with Phoenix Little Theater;

a charter member, not a founder Mrs. Bartlett Heard

17 Theater moves to Heard Carriage House -

McDowell & Central

17 later remodeled to present theater

17 Brenda becomes a writer

17 Later hires agent to get work published

18 Still works for community; directs plays

for Junior Council; big event

19 First important magazine - aid of Pat Murphy

Pat Murphy who writes to H.L. Mencken H.L. Mencken

about Brenda

19 Friend urges her to write American Mercury

20 Writes and sells "Ohio River Days"

to American Mercury Imogene Jennings

20 "Poor White" sold to Plain Talk Mary Boyer

Magazine in later anthology

21 1983 - Brenda's short stories collected Edith Goldberg

in a book by beth El librarian as a

fund-raising project for Beth El Library

21 Name changes: Goldie Weisberg changed to

Brenda Weisberg in Hollywood; in 1952

changed to Brenda Weisberg Meckler

22 In late 20's, 30's (?) Brenda publishes and

edits Anglo-Jewish newspaper "The

Southwestern Jewish Star" Harold Goldberg

22 No copies available

22 Carries a variety of news and articles

23 Ledgers and accounts

23 Brenda goes to Hollywood by invitation

of friend Marian Primock

23 How she became a studio writer Bobby Breen

24 Stories sent to Sol Lesser by Selma Breuner Sol Lesser

24 Her doctor employers in Phoenix urge her Dr. Ketcherside

to go to Los Angeles Dr. French

Dr. Joseph Bank

25 Writes "Alice in Hollywood" - unsuccessful

25-26 How she got to Briskin brothers studio; producers

26 Hired to write "idea stories"

26 Joins ScreenwritersGuild

27 Struggles as a writer

27 Gets new agent Universal Studio

27 Difficulties with contracts Ken Goldsmith

27 Free-lance writer R.K.O.

27 Parents come to live in L.A.

28 Marriage to Morris Meckler

28 Returns to Phoenix 1962

29 Brenda talks about Morris:

29 Morris became important volunteer

worker in social services in Phoenix

29 Helps needy

30 Helps TB patients in Sunnyslope

31 Respected as jeweler and diamond merchant

31-33 Himann Kivel story - gave Beth El

first Sefer Torah

33 Kivel a quiet, unobtrusive man; frugal

yet charitable Bert Goldman

33-34 Health poor - leaves important will - Florence Frank

complications Cele Andre

34 "Kivel Geriatric Center" - his memorial

34 Founders Harry Stone & others

34-35 Administrators Celia Bramson

Hirsch Kaplan

36 Brenda as program director Jack Benny

Thomas L. Thomas

38 Granddaughter of Sholom Aleichem

38-40 Jack Benny's father Mr. Kubelsky

40-42 Directed at Phoenix Little Theater "Operation Remember"

Mrs. J.L.B. Alexander

Rosemary de Camp

Dodie Cookson

43 Production of Tercentenary Pageant - 1953 "To Be Free"

44 Brenda - writer/director

44 Assistant producer Lois Shreiber

44 Cast of 100

44 Hadassah Chorus Lidabelle Guberman

45 Children Bruce Mallin

Bruce Gross

45 Morris' family a legacy for Brenda Frances Firestein

Ida Stocker

3 Stocker grandsons:

Steven, David, Mark

Firestein children:

Sandy Garvey, Charles

Garvey great grandchildren:

Jonathan & Jeffrey Firestein

45 What lies ahead?

46 New book "Bend in the Road: An

Exploration" - waiting to be published

46 Quotation from T.S. Eliot


	Brenda Meckler Interview

PICKELNER: Good morning, Brenda. I'm very happy that we're together.

MECKLER: I am too, Dorothy. Good morning.

PICKELNER: We're recording this for the Arizona Jewish Historical Society.
We would love to get your impressions of the way things were when you first
came to Phoenix. From where did you come and how did it come about?

MECKLER: Directly from Cincinnati after 12 years on a farm southwest of
Cincinnati and we came because of my father's health. He was told that he
could not withstand another winter back there and to come to Arizona. His
doctor told him there were two cities and he could choose either one; one
was called Phoenix and the other was "Tuck-son". We flipped a coin and it
came out Phoenix. And that's how we came.

PICKELNER: Well, we're very happy that you came. Were you the only child?

MECKLER: Yes, I was.

PICKELNER: How old were you - about to go into school?

MECKLER: I was long out of school. I was 18.

PICKELNER: You were 18. what was there In Phoenix for an 18 year old?

MECKLER: Well, for someone who had grown up on a farm it was not difficult.
It was not disappointing In terms of what there was to do. of course, I had
hoped to be able to teach here. So, soon after we came, my father bought
some land because he thought he would continue as a farmer. He bought 40 
acres of alfalfa on Southern Avenue. At that time that was way out in the
country. After eight months he had to sell it because irrigation was 
necessary for farming and this was something he could not take because the 
moisture was too much for him.

PICKELNER: What was your first Impression on coming from the big city of
Boston? Did you come here from Boston?

MECKLER: No, from Cincinnati. We came to Boston directly from Russia.

PICKELNER: I see.

MECKLER: My first impression was what a dismal place.

PICKELNER: How did you come?

MECKLER: By Southern Pacific coach and we had to change at Maricopa because
Phoenix was not on the main line railroad yet at that time. Those who came
by Santa Fe had to change in Williams. We came by Southern Pacific and
changed in Maricopa, which in itself was a pretty dismal place, just
desert, dry desert as far as the eye could see - a tiny little settlement.

PICKELNER: In what year was this?

MECKLER: 1918. I always remember my age because I was born with the
century.

PICKELNER: That's easy for you to remember. How did you manage coming into
a brand-new small community complete strangers?

MECKLER: Well, to begin with we were dressed as one would dress in
Cincinnati in mid-September and it was very hot and very dusty. My father
asked me to talk to the railroad agent and find out if there were any
Jewish businessmen in the area. His English was pretty good but he would
never trust himself with a new person and a new set of vocabulary. So I was
the spokesman. And he told me, yes, if we went in a certain direction we
would come to Washington Street, turn to the right and we'd find a lot of
Jewish stores. That's what we did.

PICKELNER: That was a fortunate move. Was it difficult to find a place to
live?

MECKLER: As it happened, the first store that we entered that seemed to us
to be a Jewish store was owned, including the building, by Mr. Sam Wilson.
He didn't have a Jewish name exactly but he was Jewish and it was quite
obvious that he was. As it turned out they had an apartment in their house.
They had built an apartment as part of the house. They had transformed it
into an apartment. He drove us out there and that was our first place to
live. It was on 2nd Street and Pierce. The street was very dusty, and when
it rained it was very muddy.

PICKELNER: That gives us some idea. How big do you think Phoenix was in
those days?

MECKLER: I would say under 30,000.

PICKELNER: What did your father do after the acreage didn't work out, the 
alfalfa?

MECKLER: He did what every Jewish person in the area did who was not a
professional, he went Into the clothing business. He called his place the
Farmers and Mechanics to attract the working trade. He opened a store on
Washington Street. We had gone from the Pierce Street place to a farm. Then
when that didn't work out we found an apartment on West Washington Street.
I went to find out what I needed to do to teach and I needed to take the
State examination. I passed the State examination but that wasn't enough. I
was not a citizen; in Ohio it didn't matter, but in Arizona it did. I was
not a citizen because I was 18 years old and I needed to be 21 to apply for
citizenship, to be interviewed. The reason this had not been done was
because my father was a farmer in Ohio and a very busy man and it was never
the right time to go in and apply for what was known as second papers. He
had his first papers. If he had taken them out at that time I would have
become a citizen automatically under [unintelligible]. But by the time this
happened that law had been invalidated.

PICKELNER: Were you able to get work of any kind, Brenda?

MECKLER: Well, as I said I applied for the teacher's examination almost as
soon as I came and I had my first teaching Job before we sold the farm.
Laveen, which was not far from us, had a small schoolhouse up to the fourth
or fifth grades and the teacher had become ill. I was asked to take that on
the strength of my credentials and my past experience. This was a one-room
school but for four grades instead of eight as mine had been. When the 
teacher returned they wanted me to continue as a sort of, what shall I say, 
teacher of all trades -wherever I was needed -- at the [unintelligible] 
school that was about a mile and a half In the other direction, but I 
couldn't get a certificate to teach because of my non-citizenship. An 
attorney who had become a friend of the family tried to get something 
attached to a bill in the State Legislature to make an exception, to waive 
it in my case but the House and the Senate were fighting each other and 
killing one another's bills, so that didn't go. In the meantime they had me 
teaching and they finally In desperation -- they had no salary recorded for 
me, but they attached it to a voucher that included janitorial work. That's 
how I got paid.

PICKELNER: Did you ever take out citizenship papers in your own right?

MECKLER: Yes. In 1921 my father and I together on the same day took out our
citizenship papers. I almost didn't make it.

PICKELNER: You didn't make the citizenship exam? What happened?

MECKLER: I was young and rather feisty, I guess, and enjoying the
interrogation. I felt perfectly safe and I didn't think that anything could 
happen to me. But a couple of years before that, I don't remember the exact 
date, I think it may have been in 1919 or 1920 when seven or eight 
assemblymen in New York, were elected to the assembly by due process on the 
Socialist ticket.

The Socialist ticket was not outlawed in the United States any more than
the Communist ticket was. But they were refused their seats. It caused a
great uproar and I felt impelled to participate in their uproar. I wrote
something that appeared in the Phoenix Press. It never occurred to me that
that had anything to do with my questioning about Russia. What did I know
about the Bolsheviks and about the government there and so on? I replied,
"Only what I read in the papers." Finally, I glanced over at the table of 
the examiner, a Mr. Jones, who'd come up from Tucson and the judge was 
sitting In Tucson and sent up here. Attached to a clipboard was a yellowing 
piece of newspaper print and it was what I had written about the injustice 
to these men in New York who were, incidentally, of course, finally 
admitted.

PICKELNER: I guess it was close enough to the Russian Revolution that they
suspected everyone.

MECKLER: Everybody who ever thought that Russia might be a viable answer to
all our problems. Many of us did. Of course, we didn't sustain that belief
very long.

PICKELNER: That was quite an experience.

MECKLER: I'd like to add a postscript to that. After I was finally passed
and told to sit In another box for the constitution examination, my father
was called up. The Judge asked him one question, "Are you the father of
that young woman?" He said, "Yes, I am." He said, "Well, if we passed her,
I'm sure you can make it."

PICKELNER: That's a wonderful experience and I imagine many other
immigrants were having the same trouble. Where did you finally settle,
where was your home finally in Phoenix?

MECKLER: When we finally found a permanent home, we bought a house at 527
East Adams Street because there was little vegetation there and the street
was paved, so there was not as much dust. It was paved for a short way. We
lived there until I left Phoenix.

PICKELNER: Were there other immigrants coming or other settlers coming that
became part of your life?

MECKLER: Not immediately; I suppose there were, but not any that we knew.
Incidentally, Morris Meckler was one of our witnesses when my father and I
applied for citizenship. Many years later he became my husband, as you
probably know. Not too long after we were settled in Adams Street -- by
that time we were well into the 20's, and I no longer was teaching, I was
helping in the business -- three families from Cincinnati, friends, one of
them very old and close friends, the Abraham Goodman family, with their
children; another family whose name is Miller, they had one little boy; and
another was Simpson and they had no children I think; of course, the
Goodmans had several children, a son and three daughters I believe, who are
still living here; they all stayed with us. Somehow we managed in that
rather small house by today's standards. The Goodmans remained. They had
all been bound for California, but the Goodmans remained. one of the
couples went to California and the other became totally disillusioned with
the whole aspect of the West and returned to Cincinnati.

PICKELNER: Did the Goodman children become part of the community?

MECKLER: Very much so.

PICKELNER: Did you always remain after you helped your father in the
business; was that your only work or did you do something else later on?

MECKLER: I began to write a little. I think the first story I sold was to a
very fine magazine which is no longer in existence to my knowledge; the
American Hebrew. The B'nai B'rith had a magazine, a small glossy type and I
sold some poetry to them. Everybody has to start as a poet, of course. In
fact, I started as a poet at the age of 10. I had two poems published in
the Cincinnati Post and they had the good sense to put my age under the
name.

PICKELNER: Well, that certainly augured well for the future because we know 
what a wonderful writer you have become. Was there any kind of Jewish life 
in this frontier town?

MECKLER: Yes, there was and a very close life because Jewish families were
certainly in the great minority. There were some who were already
professionals. The postmaster, not when we came but not too long after, was
Mr. Michaelson. His wife was very active In the Council of Jewish women.
There was a Jewish council, I don't remember that this was In existence
when we first came, but not too long afterward. one of the young women who
became a very close friend of mine was Pearl Edelman. We were part of the
Junior Council and were called upon when there was a fund-raising dinner
that they gave. We were among the young waitresses. We thought that was a
very, very honorable position to have.

PICKELNER: Were there any people who stand out in your mind such as those
we might call town characters or friends of yours?

MECKLER: There were two who I might describe in that way without being
pejorative at all, but they had certain characteristics that set them
apart. One was Harry Friedman, sort of a Yiddish cowboy and a man who dealt
In a small way in cattle trading and sold jewelry out of a box and was a
go-between between saddle makers and saddle buyers. He took it upon himself
to represent the Jewish community in a quasi-religious way, because In the
beginning there was no one else. But that soon changed. He used to love to 
come out to the country when we were on the farm. He had friends there 
before we knew him; not Jewish friends, but because of his interest in 
cattle and so forth he met these people. They lived across the road from us 
and we became very good friends. When he came on Sunday mother always had 
a very, very elaborate dinner in quantity and in variety, because he had a 
prodigious appetite.

PICKELNER: That's very interesting. who was the other?

MECKLER: There was one other man who came later into our lives when we
already had the temple so we're getting a little ahead of this, and that
was Philip Raamone. His name was spelled R-a-a-m-o-n-e. He was a small man
and seemed to be everywhere without any visible means of support, but I'm
sure he had. He didn't depend on the community. He was available for things
that no one else had time to do.

When the Beth Israel Temple was built at 2nd Street and Culver he was asked
to be superintendent of the Sunday School. He in turn asked me to be the
teacher of the Sunday School. I used the only method I knew In which I
could fulfill that task, that position. We celebrated every Jewish holiday
with a dramatization of the holiday, which I would write in parts for all
the children. One of them was Purim and that was a great time. There were
one or two girls who were very excellent seamstresses and made themselves 
beautiful costumes. We borrowed a large wooden horse on wheels from the 
Boston store, which later became Diamonds. Hayman led him with Mordecai 
riding in state after Esther had saved the Jewish people. In that way we 
learned something about Jewish history.

PICKELNER: Were your parents religious? Were they part of the religious
activities?

MECKLER: My father not at all. My father was an agnostic but when funds
were being raised for the temple at 2nd Street and Culver -- the building
had been purchased, it was not built for us -- he contributed and said that
although he didn't need it those Jews who did and wanted it should have it.
My mother was sort of on the edge. She had one contribution every year at
the time of the high holidays, at the time of Rosh Hashanah. She
constructed a twist loaf, a challah as we called them in three or four
stories. It was quite large to accommodate so much super-structure. This
was auctioned off and then was cut up and served at the temple.

PICKELNER: That's a charming incident. Were you part of the general life of
the community?

MECKLER: Yes. Well, the social life at that time for me and for the family
were other Jewish families. We met at one another's homes. There was one
house that was especially nice to come to because they had built a new, 
very nice house with hardwood floors so the young people could dance. There 
was a piano too. Each time the hostess tried to outdo the other hostesses 
and so forth. But it was very nice and especially at the time of holidays.

They were celebrated in that way until -- and this was before the first
temple was built -- a Dr. Liknaitz was brought in. I remember his wife's
name was Lillian. The hall above the Donofrio confectionery on Washington
Street was engaged for services. Then eventually the 2nd Street and Culver
temple was built and it was designed to serve every denomination and every
shade of denomination, from the very Orthodox to the Reform. For a time it
worked but eventually, of course, it ceased to work.

PICKELNER: Who were your close friends as you were growing into young
womanhood?

MECKLER: In the beginning when my life was very much involved exclusively
in the Jewish community, Pearl Edelman was one; Beatrice Miller was one,
and there were two other very lovely young ladies, whose parents were In
business. One was -- the last name was Cohen, I don't remember her first
name; they were both very pretty girls. The other was Ruth Schwartz. She
had a sister who was married to Philip Spitalny in Chicago - Philip
Spitalny who had the all-girl orchestra, you know?

PICKELNER: Yes.

MECKLER: When I was in Chicago I visited them, actually stayed with them a
couple of days. One of the things we used to do for self-entertainment was
to dress up on Sunday and ride on the streetcar to East Lake Park and pack
a picnic lunch.

PICKELNER: Well, it certainly sounded like you were making do and having a
good time at the same time.

MECKLER: Yes, we were. And there were some young men too. In 1920 I had
become involved in the Phoenix Little Theater. It was not Phoenix Little
Theater at the time but it was growing, it was still an idea, because I had
always been interested in the theater. When I was a kid I wanted to be an
actress, a writer and a schoolteacher, in reverse order.

I heard about Katherine Wisner McCluskey, a very lovely lady who had taught
at Northwestern and who had come here actually for her husband's health. He
was in a wheelchair; he had had a football injury and it permanently
disabled him. Unfortunately, he was the invalid -- they were two wonderful
people -- and she died before he did of an illness. So I became one of her
students and through her I was in on the beginning of the Phoenix Players,
which became the Phoenix Little Theater. Out of that I developed a whole 
new set of friends; some very, very lovely people who were also interested 
in the theater and some of whom were also studying with Katherine Wisner 
McCluskey, although they were older than I was. One was Lillias Walton, who 
is living in Prescott now. Remember I tried to call her?

PICKELNER: Yes.

MECKLER: And Beth Bannister who, with her husband and two friends, was
killed in an automobile accident long years after when I was in Hollywood.
These names would not arouse any memories in most people today, but they
were very much a part of the theater as it grew and a very important and
very wonderful part; and Corrine Bledsoe. 

This name is still known I'm sure - Dr. Howell and Josephine Randolph. They
were very active in the theater, and Vira Driscoll. And above all, Imogene
Jennings; the late Imogene Jennings, wife of the late Irving Jennings and
related to Renz Jennings; the late Renz Jennings and Renz Jennings, Jr.,
who is now in politics.

A Jewish young woman, Sarah Rosenthal, an attorney; and Emil Wachtel, an
attorney, who met here and married, but unfortunately some years later
divorced. But Sarah was also active in the theater, not on stage but behind
the scenes, and was on stage as well. So this was a new circle and one which
I enjoyed but I still of course retained my Jewish friends. Everything had 
grown outward; we no longer had to meet In one another's houses. We had a 
temple and in the course of time we had a synagogue. The division came about
when Rabbi Dow came to Phoenix and he was a Schochet. The Orthodox people 
in the temple wanted Kashruth and wanted the temple to support the Schochet.
A great many of them who did not care about Kashruth refused and that was 
the split. That became the divisive moment.

I remember some of them -- Mr. Goodman. Three or four others met in the
back of his store and decided to establish a Conservative-Orthodox
synagogue. Morris Meckler became a part of that group, but not at that
time. He continued with Beth Israel until he realized that the divisiveness
was very firm and widening. He left -- he had been the treasurer there for
several years -- and he joined the other group.

The search started for a building and they found a building at 4th Street
and Fillmore which had been a church. They bought it and that was the home
of Beth El until Morris became president and they decided that it was time
to strike out for a larger place. The community was growing and Rabbi Dow
served as the first rabbi, although he was not an ordained rabbi, but he
served in many ways. This took place when the McDowell building was 
undertaken and was already partially built. I was not here at that time. I 
had already left. This was in the 30's you see. When I left in 1937 there 
was no Beth El synagogue at McDowell and 3rd Avenue. Now they brought in an 
ordained rabbi, the first one, Rabbi Barack. So there were the two groups. 
I think there had been a fire during my absence at 4th and Fillmore. I think
that the Beth Israel at that time offered the use of their temple and it was
accepted, of course.

PICKELNER: Brenda, to go back a little bit: Were you an actress as well as
a director?

HECKLER: Oh, yes. I was an actress first, and I was among the very first
charter members. I think I'm now the oldest living charter member. I have
said that many times and no one has contested my claim. Many times I'm
referred to, in print as well, as a founder. I was not a founder. I was
very close to the founders. Katherine Wisner McCluskey and Harry Bain were
the two who first began to think seriously of a community theater.
The little theater movement had already started burgeoning over the country
and Harry Bain was fresh out of Yale, had been a member of the Baker
Workshop and had written a play, which was later produced at the Little
Theater. With them Mrs. Bartlett Heard, who was the daughter-in-law of Mr.
and Mrs. Dwight Heard, Joined this group and Horace Button, who had been a
Shakespearean actor in stock company and maybe other places too, I don't
know -- they became really the founders.

PICKELNER: Where did you put on your plays?

HECKLER: Well, Mrs. Bartlett Heard was on the founding committee, there was 
an easy access to the elder Heards and they called upon them and asked if 
they could be granted the use of what had been the carriage house -- which 
today would be called a garage -- on the grounds at Central Avenue and 
McDowell where the Phoenix Little Theater stands now, together with the 
library and the art museum. This has become a city group and will be turned 
over to the city I think in 1999. At least that is the condition of the 
whole arrangement. it was remodeled. Enough funds were raised to put in 
benches, later folding chairs.

PICKELNER: Brenda, you not only were a dramatist, so to speak, and became
very much involved in the Little Theater, but didn't you also add much to
your literary life by becoming a writer? Tell us how that all came about.

MECKLER: Well, the first thing that I sold, I believe I told you that
earlier, was a story to the American Hebrew. I think that is the last time
I ever submitted anything directly to a magazine. It was later on as I
became more involved in writing, especially In Hollywood, I always had an
agent, even for short fiction.

PICKELNER: Was your dramatic activity confined just to the Little Theater
or did you let the community benefit by it?

MECKLER: I made a contribution to the community. The degree of benefit, of
course, would have to be estimated by them. I directed a play for the
Junior Council of Jewish Women every year and it was a great deal of fun;
we all enjoyed it. I used people who have become very prominent - they 
were young then - that are adults and grandparents, many of them. Herman 
Kroloff was one and the girl who later became his wife, Toots Adler; Bess 
and Esther, and I think maybe Lena too was here.

PICKELNER: Bess and Esther who?

MECKLER: Samuels. The names elude me sometimes. They were Samuels; now it's
Bess Oseran and Esther Fireman. Oh, I mustn't leave Pearl Newmark out. She
was Pearl -- what was her maiden name? I don't remember her father's name;
her father was very active in the synagogue too. And Esther Dow; I remember
we did one play in which a certain actress was named and the character
tried to look like her and Esther Dow played that part. She didn't look
anything like her but she looked very much like Frances Dee, who was a
popular actress at the time. We had Mary Straus, Morris Gerst. I can't 
remember them, but just about all the young people who were available then 
and some a little older. So that was an annual event.

PICKELNER: That was very interesting. Brenda, how did you blossom out into
the world of literature?

MECKLER: I think I told you earlier about my first publication in the
American Hebrew, but from that time on I was very fortunate. It seemed
someone always opened a door for me. When my father was in business on 
Washington Street one of the salesmen who called on him was a man named Pat 
Murphy, whose principal sales product was men's underwear in pastel shades, 
which were very popular with the Mexican trade. This is how he made a 
living, but his avocation was bringing people together who he thought should
know one another, through letters or whatever.

He would come down Washington Street with a pile of those pastel long johns
on his arm, waving in the wind, with his other hand playing a harmonica.
One day I received a letter from Henry Mencken, of the famed American
Mercury. The letter said, "Your friend, Pat Murphy, told me that you are
wasting your talent on the desert air" -- that made such an impression on
me that I can still quote it word for word -- "and if you would like to
send me something I'll be happy to read it."

After I recovered from the shock, I decided I must take advantage of this.
It was a very hot summer that year and I really was not handling it very
well. I couldn't write. I really became ill. My friend, Imogene Jennings,
whom I mentioned before, had taken a house in Flagstaff for the summer. She
was pregnant with her second child and she insisted I come and stay with
her until I was better; and I did. As soon as I was able to sit up and take 
nourishment she stood over me, practically with a blacksmith's whip, and she
said, "Now, write!". It was there that I wrote "Ohio River Days", the first 
thing that I sent to Mencken, and which he accepted.

PICKELNER: Imagine starting at the top, because the American Mercury had
such status. As a young writer you really started at the top. That's
wonderful, Brenda. Did you go on writing - were there other stories?

MECKLER: Yes. There were others for the American Mercury and there was one
that I had sent to him and he liked it very much - it was a Depression
story - but he didn't think it would fit in with his current needs, but he
was sure that I could sell it. So I sent it to Plain Talk, which had become 
not a rival of the Mercury, it was not that same type, but it was a literary
magazine, and another magazine of distinction. John Osborn was one of the 
editor/publishers, and another of equal distinction, I cannot remember the 
name. I sent them this story, which I called "Poor White" and they 
published it. It was later taken up by Dr. Mary Boyer of the Flagstaff 
College and included in her anthology of Southwestern literature.
One of the things that later appeared after the first one in the American
Mercury was included in a textbook of English prose for college students.

PICKELNER: That was beautiful. Didn't you also write for Collier's?

MECKLER: That was much later. You see, not too long after that I went to
Hollywood. Here again, it was a strange, almost weird way. Later on, the 
librarian at Beth El, Mrs. Edith Goldberg, who was an enterprising lady, 
asked in 1983 permission to collect published short stories, which by that 
time included Collier's and Loomis Home Companion and Opinion, the magazine 
that Dr. Weiss had been publishing in New York, as a fund raising for the 
library. I agreed, and she did this and came out as a collection of short 
stories over my name, and I think she did very well with it.

PICKELNER: Under what name were your stories published?

MECKLER: The first ones were published under the name of Goldle Weisberg.
Goldie turned into Brenda when I went to Hollywood and I was asked at one
point to change my name to something more Nordic. At that time the New York
office felt there were too many non-Nordic names, too many Semitic sounding
names. I refused to do that, but I very happily changed the first, choosing
the name of a famous aunt of mine, a revolutionary aunt whom I admired very
much. So I became Brenda Weisberg. So after I was in Hollywood everything I 
wrote was Brenda Weisberg. After I came here the collected short stories 
were published under the name of Brenda Weisberg Meckler.

PICKELNER: That is very interesting. I remember that we wondered who that
Goldie Weisberg was when we read the story in the anthology. Now, weren't 
you also for a short while a newspaper publisher?

MECKLER: Yes. I decided the community was large enough, the Jewish
community that is, to support an Anglo-Jewish paper. I called it the
Southwestern Jewish Star. Unfortunately, I don't have a copy. When I left
Phoenix many things were lost and nobody else has a copy. We have tried to
find one. It covered Tucson and the metropolitan Phoenix, of course.
We happened to hit a year that was an election year. We got quite a bit of
political advertising.

PICKELNER: Did you publish mostly news about Jewish life in the community?

MECKLER: Totally about Jewish life and from time to time perhaps something
beyond the community that was Interesting and that we had access to. And I
published Jewish recipes as they were submitted, and other features. Of
course there was an editorial page, which I wrote. Harold Goldberg, of the
Goldberg family, which figured prominently in the early life of Phoenix,
was my advertising manager. Elkan Solomon, who was a member of a very old 
family in Phoenix and in Arizona, not just Phoenix, a really pioneer family,
was my Tucson stringer. Helen Wolpe sold advertising in Phoenix; Helen Wolpe
is now living in Illinois and is Helen Wolpe Lynn.

PICKELNER: Did you make expenses; did it go?

MECKLER: Yes, we did. I still have a ledger, I think I showed it to you,
showing the accounts; the money earned, the money owed, the money paid and
so forth. Strangely and unfortunately, the month and day are always there
but not the year. But this must have been in the late 20's and early 30's.

PICKELNER: Now, there is a whole other side to your career and it was most
unusual I think for a girl of your circumstances. How did you get to
Hollywood?

MECKLER: That too was in the class with the way I got into Mencken's
magazine. As I said, I was very fortunate in friends opening doors for me.
Of course, once I went through I had to make my own way. In this case a
family named Primock, who had lived in Phoenix at that time, I think
there's no one by that name living here now. One of the young daughters was
a friend of mine, Marian Primock. After the death of the father of the
family they moved to Los Angeles. Marian was determined that I should come
to Hollywood and become a writer in the motion picture industry; that I
should be there. She found a way to get me there.

Her mother played bridge with the wife of an associate producer of Sol
Lesser, of the Principal Productions. Lesser was making pictures with Bobby
Breen, the young boy singing star, and the Tarzans, and was starting a
Western series, which he referred to as miniature epics. They had engaged a 
Western star who played a guitar; that was a necessity in those days for 
the Western stars. Marian went to a secondhand bookshop and dug up some of 
the old magazines in which I had appeared, took them to her mother, 
persuaded her to persuade her friend, the bridge partner, to persuade her 
husband, the associate producer, to persuade Sol Lesser, the owner of the 
company, to read these. And it got as far as Sol Lesser. Lesser, in turn, 
turned them over to his story editor, a young woman named Selma Helsick, 
who is now Selma Brenner, and has been all the years and still is a very 
close friend of mine. Selma read them and went to him and said, "You must 
bring this girl out here." It was always a puzzle to me why anything that 
would appear in the American Mercury would appeal to a man who's making 
Tarzans and Bobby Breens and soon to start making Westerns. But it 
apparently did and I was offered a three month contract. I was at that time 
working for a group of doctors in Phoenix and they urged me to go.

PICKELNER: Who were the doctors?

MECKLER: Dr. Helrick Ketcherside, Dr. French and Dr. Joseph Bank. They
urged me to go. The wife of Dr. Ketcherside said she would take my desk, my
job would be there if I wanted to come back, but I must try this.

PICKELNER: What kind of an experience was this? What was Hollywood like? 
Was it full of glamorous stars?' Were you involved in that?

MECKLER: No, not at this time. Certainly, there were no glamorous stars in
Sol Lesser's organization. My experience there was such that I wrote a
story called "Alice In Hollywood". It was very similar to her adventures.

After three months this experiment was over because the miniature epics had
failed. I was there for the premiere of the first one and my producer took
me to this premiere. He asked me afterward what I thought and I thought he
really wanted to know what I thought. I told him not too bluntly, not as
bluntly as the dailies in Hollywood told him the next morning. Anyway, it
was the end of the experiment of the miniature epic, whatever that was
really supposed to be. I sat out my contract. I was ready to go home. I 
wrote and told them I was coming back. In the meantime, Mr. Briskin, who 
was the associate producer in question, whose wife was the bridge player, 
called me into his office and said he felt very badly about my experience. 
He wanted me to meet with his brother. There were three Briskin brothers; 
one at Sol Lesser's, one at Columbia and one at RKO. He made an appointment 
for me with the one at Columbia. He said, "They make a lot more pictures 
than we do, a greater variety of pictures and I want you to talk to him. 
I've talked about you and I think that he would like to have you on his 
staff." So I went to Mr. Briskin No. 2 and he told me they were looking for 
some idea stories, which it turned out meant exploitation of certain ideas. 
They wanted stories about juvenile delinquency and If I would bring him one 
he would see what he could do. I had already joined the guild which was a 
guild in name only. We had no power, no clout.

PICKELNER: A writer's guild?

MECKLER: Writer's guild, yes. The Screenwriter's Guild. There was a company
guild at Metro Goldwyn Meyer, but this was an attempt to really get
organized. So one of the writers in the same building, the one who wrote
for the Tarzans, came in with an application. Of course, I joined
immediately. But I didn't know that writers for the screen were not
supposed to write on speculation or spec, as it was, in the way a magazine
writer worked. So I wrote a story for them. I went to the Los Angeles 
Police Department, told them that I would like to look at some of their 
files on juvenile delinquency, told them why. They were very cooperative. I 
found enough material there for what I thought would create a strong story 
on the subject. I wrote it, took it back to Mr. Briskin and he said, "I'm 
sorry, we already have our idea story."

Then I was really ready to go back. But in the meantime an actress friend
of mine had introduced me to her agent who handled writers as well. And he
signed me. As a result the story was sold to Universal, to then producer
Ken Goldsmith, and I was part of the package deal. I was signed not to a
contract, but for this one time. I stayed there for a year. I was offered a 
contract. Then I had another agent and he told me not to accept the 
contract, they would want to nail me down to the then salary. In any case, 
the contracts were really not very good for the party of the first part, 
which was the writer or the actor. You were signed to a 6-month contract; 7 
years in 6-month segments. At the end of the 6 months they could fire you 
but you couldn't walk away. You had to stay. So in all the years I worked 
in Hollywood I never had a contract. Anyway, I stayed for 15 years.

PICKELNER: You were a free lance writer?

MECKLER: I was a free lance writer but I stayed a year at Universal, I went
to RKO and stayed there for a year, then back to Universal, then to RKO,
then again to Columbia and back and forth.

PICKELNER: Well, it sounds like a great adventure. When you settled down in
Hollywood did your parents come to live with you?

MECKLER: Yes, they did. They had come two years before because my father
seemed to have exhausted the salubrious effects of the climate here and his 
doctor told him to go to a higher climate -- this of course was very low -- 
to go in Hollywood to Boyle Heights. Yes, Boyle Heights was above smog and 
above other pollution. They were there for a year and came back. They had 
rented a house; I kept one wing for myself. When I went to Hollywood they 
came with me.

PICKELNER: Well, it sounds very glamorous to us. I don't know how glamorous
it was to you but I'm certain there are many stories connected with this
episode in your life that would be interesting. Now, how did you come back 
to Phoenix?

MECKLER: Well, I told you way back there somewhere that Morris Meckler had
come to Phoenix in the same year we did. He came in March with his brother
and the brother's family, and we came in September. Maybe I didn't tell you
that, but I did tell you that he was a witness when my father and I applied
for our citizenship papers and we became friends. The families became
friends because we were still a very close knit community then. In 1952 I
married him and came back.

PICKELNER: Well, mazel tov.

MECKLER: Thank you.

PICKELNER: I know, of course, from our friendship what a wonderful marriage
that was. Tell us something about Morris. I know he was important in the
community.

MECKLER: He was in many, many ways. I'm going to go all the way back to the 
days when we had no organized means of dealing with people in need or 
people who were ill and had no one to help them and wayfarers who came 
through and were stranded here. But we had a small group of men, my father 
was one and Morris Meckler was another, who were sort of a self-appointed 
committee to watch over these needs in the community.

If they learned -- there was always a way of learning. In a small community
somehow a chain of command follows through -- word would come to them that
so and so who was In business was not doing well and was not being able to
pay his rent and needed help because he had a family. Then my father and
Morris and whoever else was involved, I don't remember now, would go to the
different merchants and the professional people and tell them we need help
for somebody; never told them for whom. They were trusted. Through all of 
Morris' life, certainly through his life that I shared with him, he was 
trusted in many, many ways; as a businessman and other ways. They would 
contribute what they could or would. The money would be put into a little 
bank bag and they would drop in on this person, just to chat and see how 
were things going and so on. When it was time to leave, unobtrusively, on 
the counter if it were a businessman, they would leave this bag and walk 
away, and that was it.

PICKELNER: What wonderful tzedaka that was.

MECKLER: And another thing that they did. Many people came here for their
health at the time. Sunnyslope was an area where many of them came. It was
always for some respiratory problem and tuberculosis. At that time climate
was about the only thing they prescribed, either high up in the Rockies or
down here in the desert. Word came to them that a young man was living in 
an improvised tent on an earthen floor and really was not having anything 
in the way of care to promote his recovery. So again the committee called 
on him to make his acquaintance, to invite him for the holidays and so 
forth and suggested he come into town and stay with someone while something 
could be done to improve his quarters there. I don't remember where he went 
but he was given a place to stay. They got lumber, they built a floor, they 
saw that he had a weathertight tent and a decent bed and everything that he 
needed. That was not uncommon, that was very frequent.

PICKELNER: That's a wonderful side of him. I know Morris' reputation as a
businessman. Do you want to say something about that?

MECKLER: Yes, I have an example that I think is a very good one of the
confidence that his customers had in him. There was a man who had, and
perhaps still has, trailer homes. They were not as elaborate as we have
today but they were trailer homes and people usually moved about in them.
He had this place in Tempe on Apache Boulevard and it was coming close to
Christmas and he was very busy. He called Morris and told him that he
wanted a diamond for his wife for Christmas but he didn't have time to come
out and look for It or to check on it or anything. So he said you Just pick
out something. He told him how much he wanted to pay, "You pick out
something and let me know and I'll come and get it." When anyone is trusted 
to pick out a diamond you must know that he is trusted totally and 
completely. This was one example of his business tactics, the way he 
operated. He had quite a few people from the Hispanic families. Grandfathers
would send their sons, and their grandsons would come to him for their 
wedding sets and we danced at many a Spanish wedding in the course of his 
business.

PICKELNER: That is charming. Brenda, wasn't he also a friend of Himann
Kivel, who became so important?

MECKLER: Yes, he was a confidante. You know, I Just learned something the
other day when I was reviewing the history in the dedication book when the
present Beth El synagogue was dedicated. Himann Kivel had given Beth El
their first Sefer Torah.

PICKELNER: Oh, that's interesting.

MECKLER: I'd forgotten about that.

PICKELNER: Who was Himann Kivel?

MECKLER: He was a man who lived almost entirely by himself, but gave 
generously to others. He was a man who had made his wealth in a roundabout 
way and I don't think you want me to go into that. But he lived at that 
time -- and what brought him to Phoenix I don't know, perhaps his own 
health was not good -- in a small apartment on 3rd Street with the bare
necessities.

At that time young women would be sent out as collectors, raisers of funds
for the National Jewish Hospital and the Denver hospital for tuberculosis.
Many of them would come to Morris and he would take them around to people
because it gave them an entree and they were not so easily turned down.
Also, Hadassah would do that and Bertha Goldman Feiler, who was then I
think a young woman, whether she was already Goldman -- I think she was
still Silverman -always came to Morris for a visit to Mr. Kivel for his
annual check to Hadassah. When they got there this time they knocked on the
door and didn't hear an answer and he went around and looked through a
window and saw him on the bed. He was trying to say something but they
couldn't hear it so he went away and called him; he had a telephone at his
side. He said, "Come in. The door is open. I don't feel well." They came in 
and he gave Bertha a check -- and incidentally, he never learned to write 
his signature in English. He signed it in Yiddish. He never learned to
read English. When he was able to function in his financial transactions he
would go into the brokerage office and the same man was always assigned to
him. He would read to him the day's quotations and he would say, "Buy this"
and "Sell this". He had a memory and an instinct for the right thing and he
made a lot of money that way.

Anyway, he said to Bertha at that time, "Take this to the bank right now
and get it cashed because tomorrow I may be dead." Morris knew that he was
really very ill and he said, "I'm going to get you to a hospital." He said,
"No, I'm not going to spend money on a hospital." And Morris said, keeping
his fingers crossed no doubt, "I can get you in for five dollars a day." He
said, "Well, for five dollars maybe I'll go." In the meantime Morris called 
Florence Frank -- no, it wasn't Florence Frank, it was Cele somebody - -

PICKELNER: Andre.

MECKLER: -- Cele Andre, who was the social service worker in the community
to bring someone out. Before he came back someone had called his [Kivel's]
son, probably Cele Andre -- when he saw him again in a day or two his son
had come and he said he would take care of everything. Himann Kivel died
very soon after that. Of course, he is remembered and always will be 
remembered for his generosity to the community. The Kivel Geriatric Center 
is his memorial. He left $100,000, which because of certain legal 
entanglements had to be deposited for awhile before it could be used. By 
that time it had grown of course, it had earned money. So this was Himann 
Kivel's wonderful contribution to the Jewish community.

PICKELNER: Yes, I know there were some complications in the will because
the person who made it out Just simply put down the temple lists.

MECKLER: And then it was turned over to the Federation, the Community
Council then. Also, he had designated that it was to be used for a
wayfarer's home. But there was no need by that time for a wayfarer's home.
People came through and there was a Federation, there were organizations to
take care of that. What it needed, really, was a nursing home and that too
had to be straightened out legally but it was done. Morris was on the 
board, he was one of the founders. Harry Stone was a founder. At the 
dedication the daughter came up from Tucson and was asked, "Do you think 
your father would have approved of what we have done?" She said, "Yes, I 
think so. It's not what he had in mind, but I'm sure he would have 
approved."

PICKELNER: That is very fine. Was Hirsh Kaplan the administrator?

MECKLER: Not the first one, because they needed someone very quickly. Celia
Bramson, who had been an administrator in a hospital In Cleveland, was 
available. She had a background which qualified her to an extent, but it 
needed more than that, more than she was prepared to give. She had retired; 
she was no longer a young woman. But it was very wonderful to have her when 
we needed her.

Then Hirsh Kaplan, who had been at the time I believe the executive
director of the Jewish Community Council, had the perfect credentials for
this job In every way. And he was engaged at that time. He was instrumental
in a very large way in getting the buildings and the funds and the Hill
Burton funds to really put this in a perfectly viable system, eventually
three residential buildings. At that time, of course, we started with the
nursing home.

PICKELNER: Brenda, I know that you too had a part in the Kivel story.

MECKLER: I wanted to do something and I felt that programming was something
I could handle more effectively than anything else. Again, I must tell you
I must share whatever I did there with Morris, because he was not only
supportive he was there with me all the time. We would go on Tuesday
evenings and have supper at Googy's on 40th Street, there was a shopping
center there, and then come over to the nursing home and put on the
program. Morris would always see that the wheelchair patients or the ones 
who had difficulty in hearing were placed in a way that they could enjoy
everything. I started this in a very modest way. I made use of all my 
friends that could offer something. Dorothy Pickelner was one of them and 
came and read to them.

One or two of them wanted to hear something in Yiddish. I happened to have
one spiel that I seldom employ but which came in handy at that time to
transliterate freely from English into Yiddish. Then I discovered that they
didn't really want that, they wanted English, so I stopped that. As we went
on we became more and more ambitious and I had very fine programs - people
from the symphony whom I came to know. I watched the newspapers and if 
someone was in town who might have an extra day or so, and people who were 
engaged as nightclub entertainers, and they came. They came because they 
thought it was a good thing to do. I always introduced myself as a 
volunteer program director. You are listened to with more courtesy.

PICKELNER: Who were some of the famous people that you brought?

MECKLER: Of course there was Jack Benny. He was the most exciting. I always
posted the month's programs ahead so they could relish them and look
forward to them. I always had to have a backup because sometimes one of
them would fall. When Jack Benny was posted it created such a festive
atmosphere. When I brought him in, with his fiddle in his hand, the
patients, or residents as we referred to them, were lined up on either side
of the social hall. The ladies had had their hair done, their makeup on, 
their best dresses. There was an open space between the two sections. It was
a great day. They loved it and they loved him. They greeted him as he walked
in by singing "Shone a Light Unto Him".(?)

Then another one who came that gave us great joy was Thomas L. Thomas, who
was at that time very well known, especially in the radio circles. He was
the principal singer on the Firestone program. He was in town and I talked
to him, and he came. In fact, he came twice. The second time he offered to
come, it was about Christmastime. But this first time he said, "Find out 
what some of their favorite songs are. If anybody has a birthday, let me 
know." Well, we had a couple who were in their 90's and they had been show 
business people in their youth. They were having an anniversary, a diamond 
wedding anniversary. I asked what songs they would like, what was sung at 
their wedding. Well, I think It was something like, "Oh, Promise Me" or "I 
Love You Truly", I don't remember. But I passed it on to him. I pointed them
out to him in the auditorium and at one point he came down with his mike in 
his hand and announced that this is in honor of so and so on the occasion of
their 75th wedding anniversary. And he sang the song, and they sat there 
with tears pouring down their cheeks - and almost everybody else's. It was a
very, very gala evening.

Another event that was delightful in a different way -- the granddaughter
of Sholom Aleichem, who was an author and a teacher and had written "Up The
Down Staircase", which was very widely read. I'm sorry, I cannot remember
her name at this point. Anyway, she came and I introduced her as a
celebrity in her own right. She was here as the principal speaker for the
Arizona Education Association's annual conference. I sent a note to her by
way of my son-in-law, Joseph Stocker, who was then publications director
for the organization, and she replied via Joe that yes, she would be glad
to come. I introduced her, of course, in her own right, as an author and a 
speaker, but also as the granddaughter of Sholom Aleichem. This is what 
meant something to them. we had many, many wonderful people who came.

One of the nightclubs had, and maybe still has, a group of Hawaiian
performers. They were there year after year. I never asked anyone more than
once a year, so we would not be too oppressive. They would come and perform
and invite those who were ambulant to dance and they would teach them to do
the Hawaiian dances. That was the way it went for eight and a half years.

PICKELNER: Wonderful. Wasn't there a story about a friendship between Jack
Benny's father and your father?

MECKLER: Yes, there was. Jack Benny, I'm sure everyone knows that his name 
was Benny Kubelsky, his father was Mr. Kubelsky. Jack Benny's father had 
married a -- let's see, his wife was a sister of Mrs. Sachs, or maybe Mr. 
Sachs. And he was a brother -- the couple was married to cousins, so he 
would come and spend much part of the winter there, Mr. Kubelsky. He was at 
that time a widower. He would drop into my father's store and they became 
very good friends.

We had a little theater of course at that time and I was already active. I
came in one day and he was there. He was a very dapper gentleman, always
beautifully turned out; carried a silver-headed cane for part of his
costume, not because he needed it to walk by. The Little Theater was at
that time playing a comedy, "Accent on Youth" and the protagonist was in
love with his secretary, who was much, much younger. It was in the middle
of the run and I asked Mr. Kubelsky, "How would you like to see a play at
our community theater?" and he said, "Sure, why not?".

So I called up and said, "I'm bringing Jack Benny's father to see the show
tonight and if we're a little late will you hold the curtain?" Well, of
course they would hold the curtain. Anyway, we came to the play and there
was one scene in which the hero had a date with his secretary and he was
standing in front of the mirror, trying to comb the remnants of his hair
over the bald spot and trying to make himself look at natty as possible.
Mr. Kubelsky, who was probably close to this man's age, raised his cane and
waved it in the air and at the top of his voice shouted, "It's no use old
man, it won't help you a bit." Of course, he broke up the company on the
stage and broke up the audience, but everyone had a good time.

PICKELNER: Wonderful. Brenda, when you returned as Mrs. Morris Meckler the
community welcomed you with open arms and you quickly became part of the
whole fabric of life in Phoenix all over again, but you returned to the
Phoenix Little Theater and I know that you had a magnificent career as a
director. Do you remember the plays which you directed for the Phoenix
Little Theater?

MECKLER: I think so. of course, I had started directing before I left. I
had directed "The Late Christopher Bean", "The Show Shop" and one other
play, I don't remember what the other one was. Anyway, when I returned the
first thing I did for the theater was a script for the opening of the 30th
season. Things had been rather slow and the theater hadn't been doing too
well and they wanted something to give it a boost and to open the season
with excitement. So I wrote "Operation Remember" recalling plays in three 
ten-year segments, excerpts from plays that were still good plays and even 
some whose actors who had appeared in those plays 30 years before were 
still available and still able to do the part. For instance, Mrs. J.L.B. 
Alexander, Judge Alexander's wife, had played Mrs. Midget in a production 
of "Outward Bound". Many of you will be familiar with that play. It's a 
shipload of people who have died and they're going out on the Journey of no 
return. Mrs. Alexander was still with us and she could be 30 years older 
and still be scrubbing the decks. So we used her.

The highlight perhaps, in terms of actors, Rosemary de Camp, who was by
that time a very successful young actress, a very lovely and beautiful
young woman who had started her career in the theater at the Phoenix Little
Theater in a play called "The Road to Yesterday". She played my 14 year old
sister and here she was 30 years later and was able to look 14 again. But
she didn't play the scene with me. I gave her another scene in the play.
We also had to do a scene from "Our Town" and I wrote a comedy skit to
place in front of the curtain because I thought bringing her back from Los
Angeles we should use her more than just for that one scene. Dodie Cookson, 
she's Dodie Cookson Heller now, who had played in "The Women" and had played
for me in "Enter Madame" -- that was the third play I had done before I left
-- she came back from Los Angeles, bringing her handsome poodle, who had a 
part in "The Women", I think. Another old friend of the theater who was 
living in Palm Springs came back to play her part in "Twelfth Night". So it 
was a gala evening and its purpose, again, was to celebrate an anniversary 
and that was a 50th anniversary in 1953 or '54. That was called "Around the 
World in 20's Plays", using scenes from plays that were premiered around 
the world or revived around the world, including the United States.

In between I directed again. The first play I directed was the "Magnificent
Yankee". Not in order, but as I recall them, "The Barretts of Wimpole
Street",, "Man and Superman", "Inherit The Wind", "Look Homeward Angel",
"The Diary of Anne Frank", "The Crucible", "A Raisin in the Sun", which was
a first and a great success.

PICKELNER: What was special about that?

MECKLER: Well, it was an all Black company. It was the Hansberry play and a
very fine one. There was only one White person in the play and he was not
the hero. "The Corn Is Green", and that's all I can think of at the time.

PICKELNER: That was a great contribution to the community.

MECKLER: Here too, I must bring in Morris if I may. We were both fortunate
in that we shared interests together in the theater, in music, in concerts.
He came to rehearsals with me and by the time a play was ready to go on he
usually knew all the lines and could be my prompter. He instituted something
that made him and me very popular. Dress rehearsal
night he would bring in a delicatessen supper and everybody had a wonderful
time. When I directed "Inherit The Wind" with a cast of thousands I think he
almost had to cart the supper in. So, I didn't have to leave him with a
supper of salami and eggs and go away by myself.

PICKELNER: It was a wonderful contribution that you both made.

MECKLER: He was active, of course, in other areas too; in Beth El and in
B'nai B'rith. He was on the board of B'nai B'rith and a secretary or
treasurer or something for many years. Of course, he remained president of
Beth El for a little more than 13 years, until the new building was
finished. They had asked him to stay with it and he said he would until the
building was finished.

PICKELNER: What a wonderful couple you were. Brenda, I know that there was
one tremendous community effort that you made, because I was part of it,
and that was the Tercentenary. Please tell us about that.

MECKLER: Yes, that was in 1953. Let me make sure about that. In 1954 Jews 
and Jewish communities all over the United States were celebrating the 300th
anniversary of Jewish life in America. Phoenix was no exception. I was asked
if I could do something to help with the celebration.

I wrote a pageant which we called "To Be Free". It was produced in the
Phoenix Union High School auditorium. It was the only large place available
at the time. I thought the best thing that it produced was a unity in the
community that no other event had ever really brought about, because it drew
from every part of the city, from every profession, from every 
businessperson, from the different synagogues and temples. They came to 
audition, they came for the tryouts.

I was new in the community then. I didn't know a lot of people; I knew
some. I knew some of the women who had been actors in my days as a director
for the Junior Council; grown-up men and women now. They participated. Bess
Oseran was one and Jen Oseran and Dorothy Pickelner. Of course, she did not
go back to those early days, but herself was a very prominent active member
of the community. And countless others. They were cast on the merits of
their tryouts, every one of them. I had a very lovely young woman who 
unfortunately died not very long after this event, Lois Schreiber. She was 
my executive producer. The very heart of this whole project was the 
magnificent Hadassah chorus which had been organized and directed by 
Lidabelle Guberman. I made this a mixed chorus, in a way, out of whom 
everything else radiated.

There were about 110 people altogether in this project. I had written no
parts for children; it hadn't occurred to me that the children would be
interested, or that it might be too difficult. But when the parents came
home and were rehearsing their parts and prompting one another, the
children wanted to come in too. They usually learned the parents' parts, so 
I began writing in children. I had young Bruce Mallin and Bruce Gross and 
Joy Frank's little daughter. I can't remember them all, but they were all 
great little actors.

PICKELNER: Brenda, this was a tremendous undertaking. I have a feeling it
was probably the best celebration of the 300th anniversary of any city in
the United States, and I know it was so considered. It was a gem of a
production and really brought the community together.

Now, Brenda, you came back as Mrs. Morris Meckler and you inherited a
beautiful family. Tell us about that.

MECKLER: I have lost Morris. He died five years ago. But I have this
wonderful legacy. There are two daughters; Frances Firestein and Ida
Stocker and their husbands, Albert Firestein and Joseph Stocker. The three
Stocker sons, who are my grandsons, are Steven and David and Mark. The two
Firestein grandchildren are Sandy Garvey and Charles Firestein and his
wife, Laurie. The Garvey children are Kim and Jason and Shawn. The
Firestein grandchildren are two little boys, Jonathan and Jeffrey. So I
have five grandchildren and five great grandchildren. I couldn't ask for a
more beautiful family. They have sustained me and loved me and I love them.

PICKELNER: That's very beautiful, Brenda. Now, what lies ahead? In spite of 
the fact that you are an octogenarian now thank God that you're still 
active and your mind is wonderful, and I know that you have now finished an 
important piece of work, which would be the envy of any of us. Would you 
like to tell us about that?

MECKLER: Well, it's a book called "The Bend in the Road: An Exploration".
The exploration comes from T.S. Elliot's fourth quartet, in which he said,
"We shall never be done with our exploring, but when we have finished our
exploration, we will return to where we started and see the place for the
first time." This book is an exploration of my growing up in Ohio on a
farm, an immigrant child who was programmed to grow up in Boston and ends
up growing up on a farm in southwestern Ohio. It's in the hands of an
agent, it hasn't been sold yet.

PICKELNER: Oh, but we know that it will be published and we will all have a
great celebration when that beautiful book comes out. Thank you for your
memories and for sharing them with us and we're all looking forward to the
book.

MECKLER: Thank you very much. I hope you won't be disappointed. Dorothy,
you know your friendship means a great deal to me and it was good sharing
this with you.

	[end of transcript]