..inte: Harold Jerome Lewkowitz ..intr: Bobbi Kurn ..da: ..ca: ..ftxt: Interview with Harold Jerome Lewkowitz Transcriptionist: Carol Ruttan Interviewer: Bobbi Kurn Log For Harold Jerome Lewkowitz Page 1 Father's move to Phoenix 1914 Herman Lewkowitz 1-2 Mother's move to Phoenix 1919 Carrie Epstein 4 Parents' marriage 4 Temple beth Israel Charlie Korrick 4 Council of Jewish Women/Sisterhood 5 Beth El Rabbi Dow 6 Harris Mandell Marjorie Mandell Sonny Mandell 7 Father in American Legion; Last Man's Club; Elks Lodge Curry Brothers 8 Temple Lipson Charles Korrick Mr. Primrock Jeanette Kaplan Hyman Gold Evelyn Stern 9 Hebrew Men's Club Cecil Newmark Phil Newmark Ted Pozil 10 Marriage to Pat Korrick 10 President of Sisterhood Alma Korrick 10-11 Anti-Defamation League 12-13 Anti-Semitism 13-14 Gross' Delicatessen Sam Gross Max Liquor Max/Lillian Chiate Ann Kaufman (Hirshberg) Frank/Fanny Sitkin 15-17 Father's career Winnie Ruth Judd Paul Shag Joe Zaversak Jana Bommersbach 16-17 Jewish client Eisenstein 17 Lou Gehrig's disease Governor Osborn 18-19 Growing up Jewish Ted O'Malley 19-20 Temple Beth Israel Elaine Arons Shirley Horowitz Fay Stone Lois/Martin Shapiro Bobby Feffer Lou Pollett Ben Rosner Marshall Boshes Lois Boshes Chanen 22-25 Sunday School Rabbi Krohn Rabbi Jaffa Rabbi Hurwitz Rabbi Plotkin Rabbi Feinberg Rabbi Kramer Phil Chapman 25-26 Temple Beth Israel Sol/Reva Lebeau 27 Religious school friends Kirk Kroloff Judy Ros Paul Lewinthal Fay Stone Jack/Gene Leibsohn Mark Leibsohn Sitkins 28-29 Holidays Abe Korrick Charles Korrick Max Spitalny Ben King Sam Kotzen 31 Karl's Shoe Store Daniel's Jewelry Sam Straus Mal Straus Oscar Klein Mr. Meckler Al Gottlieb 31-32 Handels Bakery 33 Bar mitzvah 34-35 Friday services/dinners 35-37 Social life Louis Soriano Feffers Kroloffs Levys Hirshbergs 38-39 Men's Club Cecil Newmark 39 Federation Hirsh and Helen Kaplan 40 Kivel Goldsmiths 41 Jewish Community Center 41-42 Century Country Club Arnold Cook 43-44 Friedman Jewelers Harry Friedman Blanche Friedman Bernstein Charles Bernstein 44 Funk Jewelry Store 45-46 Jewish Historical Society Marshall Lehman Harold Jerome Lewkowitz Interview KURN: Today 15 November 12, 1990. My name is Bobbi Kurn and I am an interviewer for the Arizona Jewish Historical Society. we are interviewing Jerry Lewkowitz who is currently our president of the Jewish Historical society. We thank you for allowing us to interview you. LEWKOWITZ: I hope I last through the interview. KURN: We do, too. His name is Harold Jerome Lewkowitz, better known as Jerry. He lives at 6350 North 19th Street in Phoenix. His occupation is a lawyer. He was born July 17, 1929 In New London, Connecticut. He arrived in Phoenix in July or August of 1929. His parents' names are Herman and Carrie Lewkowitz. He has three children: Barbara, Beth and Herman and eight grandchildren and one on the way. Okay, we will begin. Why did your parents come to Phoenix? LEWKOWITZ: My father came here in 1914. He was, I think, 21 at the time. He had Just graduated law school, which was unusual at that time for somebody to even go to college, nonetheless law school. He had done both, graduated from the University of Missouri undergrad and then Kansas City law school. He had taken the bar when he was about 19 and passed it, then came out to Arizona because his brother, Lewis, was a traveling cigar salesman in Arizona and had said, "Come out west, Herman, there's greater advantages out here." so he came out in 1914 as a single person. My mother came out here in 1919. She was the older sister, came out with my grandmother by train to Maricopa. Of course, they took the buggy-board or whatever it is from Maricopa into Phoenix. KURN: Where is that? LEWKOWITZ: Maricopa was where the train stopped. Maricopa, Arizona. KURN: What's a buggy-board? LEWKOWITZ: Well, they didn't have buses or taxis then. It was a horse-drawn cart or something, I guess, that they came into Phoenix from Maricopa, which Is about 30 miles from here, south-southeast, I think. My aunt, her younger sister, had bronchitis, so they came out here for her health. My grandmother was an immigrant who spoke English with quite an accent, could read English but could not write anything, but a wonderful woman. They lived in a little town in Pennsylvania - Sheffield, Pennsylvania where my maternal grandfather had a dry goods store. Their name was Epstein I don't know how deep you want to go in the past, but his name was Epstein, although when he came over, I believe, from Lithuania his name was Sheferosky. When he got off the boat they said, "What Is your name?" and he didn't understand. The guy who met him at the boat, I guess his cousin or something, was Epstein, so he became Epstein Instead of Shaefer. Then he sold the business, his department store. My mother worked with him. My mother was one of five sisters and one brother. My uncle Is still alive - he will be 97 at Thanksgiving. KURN: Where does he live? LEWKOWITZ: He lives in Sharon, Pennsylvania. All of the children went to college with the exception of my mom, who stayed at home. But every other one went to college and either got a degree or advanced degrees. They sold the business in 1928, 1927, or something and moved to this little department store in Sheffield, Pennsylvania and moved to New London, Connecticut. That's where I was born - I'm a summer baby. My dad was born in Omaha, supposedly the last of 20. They came originally from Germany. My paternal grandparents - my grandfather's name was Wolf Lewkowitz. He was long gone by the time I was born, my sister too, I think even my brother. There were nephews and nieces older than my dad when he was born. As they moved across the United States, from Baltimore where they landed, to El Paso - I guess Omaha was the last time they had a child. But they Just kept having children as they moved west. we never were really close to my father's side of the family. There are Lewkowitzes around - there's even some in town, but not related to them. He came out here in 1914. KURN: How did they meet? LEWKOWITZ: Well, there weren't too many Jewish girls then, or men, I imagine, though my father was very Reformed and my mother was raised In a kosher Orthodox home. My grandmother, God bless her, she maintained it out here in Phoenix. They met - my mother was really wooed by a lot of men and Herb Stein, who has since passed away, he was a very successful capital fuel, seed and grain, I think - Archie Kroloff worked for him. He used to take my mother around In his car. Herb Stein was a native and his wife, Minnie, are old-time Phoenicians. My mother and father finally met, I guess, in about 1920 or something. They were married January 21, 1921 here in Phoenix. They were the first Jewish couple married In Arizona by a rabbi. They brought a rabbi over from El Paso to perform the ceremony and they were married at, I think, It's 9th Street and Roosevelt. That's where my grandmother's home was. My aunt lived with them - they moved In shortly after they were married. They bought a home and lived at 125 West McDowell which is still standing, I believe. Across the street was the Central Avenue Dairy, north of them, which was county. They were on the city limits at McDowell Road in 1921. In 1922, I believe, they helped organize Temple Beth Israel - they were two of the founders for the temple. In those days they used to kind of pass the troubles around, because I think my father was president two or three times of the temple. He and Charlie Korrick used to kind of rotate there for a while. KURN: Did he ever talk about how they got it started? LEWKOWITZ: Oh, It was a struggle like a lot of organizations then. My mother helped organize the Council of Jewish Women years ago and was one of the organizers, founders of the Temple Beth Israel and Sisterhood. She was secretary of Temple Beth Israel for, I would say, close to 20 years. In that little booklet that they put out at the 50th reunion a lot of her minutes are in there. First her lousy handwriting, then her worse than lousy typing. It was just terrible. It was manual typing, but it was done and she worked at it. My brother was born nine months and two weeks after their wedding. We always used to kid them about It. He was born in Phoenix, Bert, November 1, 1921. And again, for Jewish historical purposes, I guess, he was the first male child born in Arizona that had his Bris performed by a Mohel. Again, they brought him over from El Paso - in fact, my paternal grandparents are buried in El Paso. It was quite a Jewish community in those days. My folks - again, just to tie up a little more historically, Bobbi - my folks helped organize, they were founders of the Temple. of course, my dad - the B'nal B'rith lodge twice - I think it failed once and it came back and reorganized it later on in the late 20's. Then, I think you know, I put two and two together and it may make a big 7 or something - but helped organize and affect Beth El, because the rabbi that they kept bringing back ended up being the rabbi for Beth El. He was the Mohel, he was the rabbi, he was the - I'm sorry, I'm not very good at it - Schochet for the kosher butcher - Rabbi Dow, who was the first rabbi for Beth El. It was over at 4th Street and Fillmore, across from the St. Joseph's Hospital. I guess this week they're opening up Arizona Center on that property, or right close by. KURN: Did they ever say why they felt there was a need for a synagogue? LEWKOWITZ: I think they always felt like they should organize. I think Jews have a tendency to do that. They used to assist in organizations and I guess camaraderie throughout the state. I can remember as a youngster driving with my mom and dad - I guess my brother and sister weren't around, so they must have been in college, and it must have been right around the early 40's or late 30's - driving down to Nogales, which had a large, kind of incestuous Jewish community, but they organized the B'nai B'rith lodge down there., My father went down there to charter them and give them a speech. I can remember about two or three times a year we would have a picnic halfway between Phoenix and Florence or Coolidge with the Harris Mandell family that were old timers down there. She's still living - you ought to talk to Marjorie Mandell, Mrs. Kay Mandell. KURN: In Nogales? LEWKOWITZ: She lives here in Phoenix and her son, Kay -- they moved to Phoenix in the early 40's and he commuted to Coolidge or Florence to the store so that Kay could go to high school at North High which had Just opened. We used to call him Sonny M-a-n-d-e-1-1, Mandell. We used to meet with them. In those days it was a long distance. As a matter of fact, in those days, a Sunday drive was for all of us to get together as a family and drive north on Central from Bethany to Glendale - the trees kind of met over and made -- it was so different for Phoenix to have these old ash trees or whatever they were and they made like an umbrella across Central, from Bethany and Central to Glendale. When I came back from the service Pat and I built a home at 3rd Avenue and Northview, shortly after, and that was even north of there. I can remember the city limits -- I can't remember it at McDowell, but I can remember the city limits being at Thomas Road. Just north of Thomas and 7th Avenue, right around Osborn, I think it was, was a horse track, what is now Turf Paradise, I guess. That was really out of town then. But they felt committed, I think, to Jewish organizations and other organizations as well. In those days, my father did go to the service and come back - World War I. He never got overseas but he was an officer in the service and he joined the American Legion, which was a big thing then, and the 40 and 8 which was kind of fun thing, like the jokesters of the Legion. Then there was the Last Man's Club. Three of them lit a match, then they invited 13 others to join and they're all gone now, but that was kind of the elite group of the Legion. The Legion was very powerful in those days, in the 30's. He was also active in the Elks Lodge and he was county welfare board chairman and then the state welfare board chairman during the Depression. He was a volunteer, naturally, and his effort was to get jobs, like the WPA operated In those days. I remember the first thrill I had was taking a flight with my father and the Curry brothers of Tempe in a very small plane to go over the Tempe, what was then the Tubercular sanitarium. It was built up there by the welfare board and that was one of their principal things. I don't know what it is - I think ASU owns it now. I can remember the temple services over at 2nd Street and Culver vividly and the Sunday School right there. My mother was chairman of the Sunday School for many years, too. KURN: You said your parents co-founded the temple. LEWKOWITZ: I don't know the exact names, but there was a fellow named Lipson, L-i-p-s-o-n. I have that list for you. I think it's in the temple memorial book every year. There was Charles Korrick, not Abe Korrick, but Charles Korrick. There was the Primock, Mr. Primock, P-r-i-m-o-c-k. Mr. and Mrs. Gold. KURN: First name? LEWKOWITZ: They had twins. They had three daughters and a son. Jeannette Kaplan is the twin to Harry Gold. Then there was Selmd and Evelyn Stern was married to Dr. Stern. The Gold family was Hyman Gold and he owned a little store. It was just east of 2nd Street and Washington called the White House, Casa Blanca. It was a low-end store, you know, it wasn't the department store, let's say, that Diamonds - in those days Diamonds was called the Boston Store, and then it became Diamonds and then it became Dillards. Then the Korrick's store was called the New York Store and it became Korrick's and now, of course, it's the Broadway. The seed, let's say, was Korrick's and now the Broadway's everywhere, as Dillard's is. But they were downtown -Phoenix had a big hub downtown. As far as religious life, we pretty well attended services, if I recall, every Friday night. My mother always had a Sabbath meal. We did not keep kosher except when my grandmother would come to town. my grandfather would come to town and though he kept kosher, when he came to town he didn't bother, like my grandmother. KURN: How would they get here? LEWKOWITZ: In those days they got here by train. They'd come out by the Southern Pacific, I think. That was another big thing. The depot was downtown at 4th Street and Jackson, or something, and that was a big thing to go down there. I remember my father was a founding father, not a member, of the Hebrew Men's Club. The Hebrew Men's Club, most of those guys now are probably in their 70's and 80's. They were a bunch of youngsters, or young men, in Phoenix. I think they started out probably as a softball team and ended up doing all kinds of things. Cecil Newmark and Phil Newmark and Ted Pozil, and there were so many of those young men. I guess the Fuch's boys and quite a few of them were in this HMC. my father annually, along with Charles Korrick, would install the new officers at their annual dinner. Phil Newmark sent me a tape of it that occurred, I think, in 1939 - no, in 1942 or 1943. He sent a tape to me of that. It was an old wire type thing which he had transcribed onto cassette. I still have that speech of my dad's, and the guys singing their song. KURN: Oh, they had a song? LEWKOWITZ: Oh, they had a song. "Here's to old HMC, boys' - or something like that. You ought to talk to Cecil and Phil about it. I've got the song on that tape. KURN: I bet Cecil would like to hear that tape. LEWKOWITZ: I think he's heard it, but I'll give it to him again. KURN: It would be fun for us to have it in our files. LEWKOWITZ: I'll be happy to give it to you. As you know, I was married to Pat Korrick when I was a third year law student and she was a senior in college. We got married -two old families that had known each other for years. I think my parents were friendlier with the Charles Korrick's then they were with the Abe Korrick's, but anyway, Pat and I were married and after the service Mr. Korrick wanted me to go to work for him, which I did, at the store. I have a tape also, and I should give to you, of when Abe Korrick was honored for 50 years in business in 1956, 1 guess, or 1954, and Barry Goldwater speaking and others at this Bud Brown's Barn. KURN: That would be good to have. LEWKOWITZ: They were not very active in the Jewish community, although Mrs. Abe Korrick, Alma Korrick, was a president of Sisterhood at one time. But Charles Korrick was very active. My father was active, also, extremely active in B'nai B'rith. As you know, the lodge is now named after him. He was the first member from Arizona who was elevated in the chairs, both on a district level - he was the grand president of District No. 4 which comprised, I guess, 8 or 10 western states and western Canada. He was very active, again, as a volunteer all his life with the Anti-Defamation League. I remember one particular thing - I don't know why things register in your mind sometimes - right after the attack on Pearl Harbor somebody in what is now just an adjunct courthouse at First street or second Street and Washington that old building that is now historical. That was the courthouse in those days. There was somebody that wrote down - I'm trying to think of the exact expression, but it doesn't really matter - something to the effect that the Japanese got the Arizona, Colin Kelly was the first one to shoot down a Japanese battleship and Abe Cohen was the first guy to get four tires. Because they were rationed. Somehow or other that went around the courthouse. My father found out about It and grabbed the paper and, through some sort of investigation, they found out what typewriter had been used and what Individual had typed it, and they were fired. My brother then picked up from him - Bert was active in the Anti-Defamation League and he became a president of the district as well. He came under a lot of heat in, I guess it was, the late 50's when the Attorney Generals of the United States were coming out here for a convention. They scheduled their meeting for the Camelback Inn. My brother took a stand and informed the Attorney General from New York that there was an anti-Semitic policy, an effective one, at Camelback Inn, and that, as a member of the B'nal B'rith and the Anti-Defamation League, they shouldn't meet there. And he changed the meeting. Well, he got a lot of heat for that from the general community because of the fact that we lost this prestigious convention and all. I think it helped, perhaps, in breaking down I don't know if it did, but anyway -- they were both active In the Anti-Defamation League, particularly In the younger days when it was just all one. KURN: When your dad was active in those military organizations, was he the only Jew in them? LEWKOWITZ: Pretty much. As a matter of fact, I don't think my father ever joined anything he didn't end up being president of. He was commander of the Legion and then he was Judge advocate, which is a lawyer I guess, of the state Legion department. Then he was exalted ruler, they call it, of the Elks Lodge, which Is kind of like the Moose. Those things go through phases - it was just like when I grew up those kinds of things phased into knife and fork clubs, like Kiwanis and Rotary. Now they're kind of dying out. People have different ways of - I guess organizations to join. KURN: Did he witness any anti-Semitism? LEWKOWITZ: Oh, quite a lot. As a matter of fact, I was used in 1949 or '50 because Jews were not getting into the Elks Lodge. So, the secretary, the only employee, I guess, of the Elks Lodge, came to my father and mentioned that he was a past exalted ruler, past state president, and said, "We're having trouble. Can we use Jerry, with your name, and all?" I had never been to that lodge other than with my dad, family events - never knew anybody really to speak of In there. They put my name In and I was blackballed. So, they let it be known that there would not be another Jewish member of the Elks lodge, ever again - If whoever was practicing anti- Semitic behavior didn't cut it out they would blackball everybody and destroy the lodge. That's how strong a stand they took, which I admired. KURN: These were non-Jews that took that stand? LEWKOWITZ: Yes, non-Jews, along with my dad. I never did join the Elks Lodge, but I know other Jews are members now. My father, also, was one of the initial corporate investors, or shareholders, in the Phoenix Country Club. When they adopted a stance on anti-Semitic non-Jewish, I guess, would be better than anti-Semitic he turned in his stock. He didn't really turn it in, he kept it, which aggravated them. He was a non-paying shareholder in the Phoenix Country Club for years. Now, of course, they're open and I think they have black members, too. KURN: Why did they let him in, initially? LEWKOWITZ: No, he was one of the organizers. They just said, "Let's form a country club" or something like that, which he thought was a good deal, and needed. KURN: Any other Jewish people form it with him? LEWKOWITZ: I don't know, that I didn't know. KURN: How did they handle Jewish needs, as far as helping the poor? LEWKOWITZ: I can remember when my mother was president of the Council of Jewish Women in the 20's, or something, when Sam Gross came to town and ended up with Gross' Delicatessen. He had his delicatessen on Central Avenue just south of Roosevelt, just next to the main post office there. Mac Chiate had a liquor store next door, Mac's Liquor, Mac and Lillian. They're still alive, Mac and Lillian - I think they live on the coast. They were good friends of the Korricks. KURN: How do you spell Chiate? LEWKOWITZ: C-h-l-a-t-e. one of their nieces is married to Buddy Davidson. Anyway, when Mr. Gross came to town he had $50 and the Council of Jewish Women matched the $50 and he got his start opening up a delicatessen - I guess $100 went a long way in the 20's. So, they met his $50 and he started the delicatessen. We used to always have people in our house. To this day, and maybe it wasn't exactly like homeless or anything, but my mother used to have people over for the holidays, for Friday nights, it was always kind of open house. Judy and Warren Silver recall, to this day, that the first holiday they spent was at our home. There are a lot of people like that who remind me of that, how open our house was. of course, in those days, open is more than -- I mean, people came in that were invited, but I can remember Phoenix being a little bit different. We never locked our back door. Shortly after I was born -- I always facetiously say, though I'm not a native by being born here, my brother and sister are both natives - both born in St. Joseph's Hospital - I was born in Connecticut but I was conceived here. That makes me feel better. I came out here, literally in a laundry basket - those old wicker baskets. My mother came on the train - In those days It took about 8 days and 7 nights or something. she was met at the train -- or, I think she got on the train halfway to Phoenix to meet my mother, because she was in the east visiting-- a woman named Ann Kaufman, who was one of my mother's best friends. In those days, her name was Ann Hirshberg. She's still alive and just as wonderful as ever. Ann Kaufman - I think you probably know her. She used to own a dress shop downtown. Her husband and my mother and dad and the Hirshbergs and another family, the Sitkins, S-i-t-k-i-n, he was a dentist. His name was Frank Sitkin and her name was Fanny. she was very active in the community too. They were, I would say, five or ten years older than my mom, maybe a little bit older than my dad, too. They were a wonderfulcouple; they used to do a lot together. KURN: Like what? LEWKOWITZ: Oh, you know, like the holidays, spend the holidays together. Then the women, in those days, would - kind of like my mother and all of us - would go back east. By that time my grandparents had moved to this little town in Pennsylvania, Sharon, which is right across the line from Youngstown, Ohio, halfway between Pittsburgh. I'm trying to locate it, geographically. We used to go back there and spend all the summer, pretty much, with my cousins, my aunts and uncles. They all kind of lived in that town. My father would come and go. Held have a break - he was a trial lawyer, so held have a break and come east and visit with us. Held always come and pick us up and take us home, too. KURN: He was a lawyer here in Phoenix? LEWKOWITZ: My father came here in 1919 as a lawyer. He was a city attorney, assistant district attorney, federal district attorney. I found it, and then when I moved I lost it, but I didn't throw it or anything - a little tag, the old -- if I don't give it to my son-in-law I'll give it to you all -it's a badge like they used to wear, I guess it's the predecessor of the new pins, a Vote For Bobbi Kurn pin, or something, only it was kind of a ribbon. You know, Vote For Herman Lewkowitz for City Attorney, or something like that. It was a ribbon, made kind of out of material with a little safety pin on It. He never had aspirations, I don't think, to become a Judge, but he practiced law. He was pretty much a general practitioner in those days, but he ended up in criminal defense work. His most famous case, I guess you might say, was in the early 1930's he defended Winnie Ruth Judd. He was her defense counsel, along with a guy from L.A. by the name of Paul Shag and my father's junior partner, Joe Zaversak. It's interesting now that you see all the stories. Recently, the New Times had an article on Winnie Ruth Judd. It had quite a story about my dad and his participation. Jana Bommersbach Is writing a book about it now. She has all my -- I save all that stuff. Although my son calls himself the family archivist, but he gets it all from me, I think. KURN: Was there any problem having a Jew as the lawyer for these cases? LEWKOWITZ: Not really. I don't think people know you're Jewish if you do a good Job, you know, if you defend them. I remember one Jewish client that he had, Eisenstein. I think some of them are still around. KURN: With an I or an E? LEWKOWITZ: I think it's E-i-s-e-n-s-t-e-i-n. They lived over on about, if I recall, about 3rd Street, maybe a little bit farther east than 3rd street on Palm Lane. I think his daughter came back and said she was going to marry somebody or was out all night -- I don't what it was -- but he shot her. my father at that time -- my father was a remarkable man -- if in your conversations you have a chance to meet someone who remembers him -- he had amentropic lateral sclerosis, ALS, which is the Lou Gehrig's disease. He had it for ten years, which is really uncommon. He practiced law from his wheelchair without the use of his arms or legs for five years. my mother was like a saint. She took care of him day and night and he never really had outside care, even though he had a permanent tracheotomy tube for about three years and he had other kinds of things. We cared for him at home and, before he got seriously ill, cared for him and got him to the office and everything. Governor Osborn, at the same time, contracted the disease. They don't know anything more now than they did then and he died in 1951, my father did. Osborn died about five years before that, but I remember taking my father out to see Governor Osborn, because he used to have an office down the hall from my dad and they were good friends. He'd pick up the phone and he'd fight and struggle to lift it up and my dad said, "That's foolish. save your strength." of course, nowadays there's speaker phones, but in those days we had the phone that was kind of on an arm up here and all he'd do is lean forward. When it came to writing his name we'd just kind of guide it, if you had to sign, or otherwise the court would accept his secretary's signature for him. KURN: What is your earliest memory of being Jewish or feeling Jewish or seeing something Jewish? LEWKOWITZ: I think I was always sensitive to being Jewish. There was a certain pride, I think, that you have in being different and I really liked that. From a personal standpoint, I liked Judaism, too, because of its autonomy. I can remember being called "dirty Jew" or something like that. I remember getting beat up once when I was in the 5th grade or 6th grade. I went to Kenilworth School. But I never really felt it much until I went to North High. At North High - I guess high school people have more of a tendency to be outspoken or blunt or cruel than others. I remember Ted O'Malley, who was a good friend, and I ran for class officers. I remember making up these posters and things like that that you do around school. I was only 14. On one of the posters when I took it down someone had written "Who wants a Jew?". KURN: That would have been what year? LEWKOWITZ: I was 14. That would be 1944, '43 or '44. KURN: Did you lose? LEWKOWITZ: Oh, yeah, I lost, but so did O'Malley. I didn't feel bad. I think he did, I'm not sure. But I know I lost. I was sensitive, but on the other hand maybe that makes you try a little harder or maybe be more sensitive to others. I think you also learn not to go where you don't want to. You know, If you're not welcome you kind of stay away. so, you divert your energies to things that are more receptive or more valid. I never have had a desire to join the Paradise Valley Country Club. I know they don't want Jews there. I think I probably was more cognizant of my Jewishness when I went to high school. It was at that particular point I think people join their church groups, Sunday night stuff, the young people fellowship or Episcopal fellowship or things like that - things to do in Phoenix. There weren't that many things, so they were more church oriented. we didn't have anything in Phoenix in those days. There was the AZA but there wasn't a BBG, so to speak, and the AZA and there wasn't a Jewish Community Center. I think the Jewish Community Center, the first one, was built in about 1948 or something like that, over near Central and Hoover. So, I grew up kind of without a Jewish community alliance. I mean, we were a family and there weren't even too many Jews living here then. As a matter of fact, when I was confirmed in Temple Beth Israel there were just four of us that hit the age of 15. I mean, you're talking small numbers. They needed another boy. It was me and Elaine Arons - one A - Shirley Horowitz -- KURN: Elaine -- LEWKOWITZ: Arons, A-r-o-n-s. I don't know whatever happened to her. Shirley Horowitz, whose father and mother owned the Globe Furniture Company downtown. She ended up marrying her cousin, Martin. And Fay Stone, whose folks owned the Stone Shoe Company. I'm still in contact with her once in awhile. She graduated high school with me. They have her address. she's married to a physician on the coast. Her sister, Lois, my brother's age, Lois Shapiro - Martin and Lois Shapiro they own the Stone Red Goose Shoe Store next to Rosenzweig's downtown, First Avenue. There were three girls and me that hit 15. I was bar mitzvahed at the temple. But anyway, at the confirmation they needed another guy, I guess. In those days the girls didn't read the updated Allyahs, even in the temple. That's only recently they're doing that in the temple, as Reform as they are. It's only in the last year that I can remember they've done it at the Shul. But anyway, they got Bobby Feffer, Bob Feffer, to fill in. He's a year younger than we are, six months, but that was an eternity, six months, in those days. We got confirmed, but there weren't that many Jews. There were fewer Jews at North High, because that was the north side, than there were at Phoenix Union. There were the guys like Alex Polesetsky don't try on that - Lou Pollett's brother, and Ben Rosner, and the Gold kids, Harry and Jeannette. They all went to Phoenix Union. Marshall Boshes went to North High and Lois Boshes Chanen. There were a handful, but there weren't that many Jews, very few. As a matter of fact, when I stayed home my first year of college and went to Phoenix College to help with my father until we could get somebody into the routine, because I had to lift him and help him and help my mother with his personal needs. Then we got somebody and I finished up my first year of college at Phoenix College in May. In June I went to the University of Washington in Seattle. One of the principal reasons of my going was under my father's suggestion and encouragement that I go there. He didn't order me to, but he could have and I would have done it, but the reason why is because Seattle, in my father's travels with B'nai B'rith, he thought that Seattle had a very fine Jewish community and I should get in some way an affiliation more than I had. So I went up there in June of '48 and my parents came up there in August, because the B'nal B'rith convention was in Vancouver, so they came through. I stayed there at the University of Washington and joined ZBT, became an officer in that fraternity. I was house manager. I was there for two academic years - one and a half calendar years - because they were on the quarter system, until my father got seriously ill in December of '49 and I transferred back to ASU and got my degree from ASU, undergraduate. I never really felt, even though I never went out with a Jewish girl, because there really wasn't any to go out with, just to go out. I wasn't about to get married in high school anyway. But, I never really dated a Jewish girl until I went to the University of Washington. I grew up with Fay and Shirley - I went out with Lois Chanen and kind of had an interest with her, but Herman swooped her off her feet before I could even get to first base and that was the end of that. She was three or four years younger than I. Pat and I got married. Her brother, Bob, was my age. He passed away in 1948, I think, Bob Korrick. Pat was four years younger - I didn't even know her, other than being Bob's little sister. But we ended up when she was 19 and I was 23 or 24, we got married. KURN: Was there a religious school, was there a Sunday School when you were a little kid? LEWKOWITZ: Oh, you bet. I'll never forget, Bobbi, it was a joke, I don't know, they probably still have it - and for some reason I remember it, because of the title. I think every year for ten years, eight years I had the same book, When the Jewish People Was Young. We would read that and we'd go every Sunday and we'd have these instructions from When the Jewish People Was Young. I had to take English in college before I realized that was a collective noun. That was a riot. And we had services. As a group we'd all get together every Sunday morning, like from 11:00 to 12:00 or 10:30 to 11:00, I don't remember the exact schedule. Then there was a time when the temple either had a fire or was being built - something happened - and we met at Beth El for about a year, over at 4th Street and Fillmore. I still have a picture of all of the Jews in Phoenix under the age of 16 or something In front of Beth El. I think I gave that, but if not -- you know I may have given it to the temple when they made that booklet up. KURN: So there was a rabbi when you were real young? LEWKOWITZ: Oh, yeah. There was a rabbi always at the temple. But when I was really young - not really young, but when my memory is better - of Rabbi Krohn. KURN: That's the first rabbi you remember? LEWKOWITZ: Yes, I remember him. KURN: Do you know who was before him? LEWKOWITZ: Yes, there was a Rabbi Jaffa. He outlived everybody. Then there was a Rabbi Hurwitz, H-u-r-w-l-t-z, that was there for awhile. I think after Rabbi Krohn there was at least four rabbis. I think there was a Rabbi Feinberg. His brother is also a rabbi. Morton Feinberg. He was there in 1950, 51. They kept trying to get people in to take Rabbi Krohn, to let him retire. They had as much trouble with Rabbi Plotkin as they did Rabbi Krohn. Calvin Goode - they can't get him off the City Council - it's the same way with Rabbinate. Rabbi Feinberg - I think that's his name - his brother was a rabbi in El Paso and he was here for awhile. Then they had a guy named Rabbi Kramer. KURN: With a C? LEWKOWITZ: With a K. You may remember him. He was here, too, on a trial basis. His name was Bill Kramer. He spoke to the Jewish Historical Society about a year ago, a big, heavyset guy. He spoke to the Jewish Historical society. He's in L.A. and I think he's writing, but he works for the Historical Society over there. He was a real maverick. I'll never forget - he came to my folks' house for Pesach in a Hawaiian shirt. It was a riot. He's also a guy who's written up in Time Magazine and he gave the invocation to the Los Angeles City Council and stood up - it was written in Time, I'll never forget it - he stood up and he said, "Praise the Lord and pass the legislation" and sat down. He was here for awhile and then Rabbi Plotkin came. I claim to be the first one who's ever met Rabbi Plotkin, because at the University of Washington he had just gotten out of rabbinical school, just accepted a position with the temple in Seattle and he, of course, even today he looks young, but you can imagine him at 22 or 23, whatever he was when he got out of rabbinical school -- he showed up and they invited him over to the house - he was single. I guess we had a guy named Goldfarb that was a member, who is Sylvia's cousin or something, and his father was the organist at Rabbi Levin's temple in Seattle and Plotkin came over and those guys thought he was a rushee. He still tells the story of how they had him in a corner to join ZBT. I met him, and about two years later, I guess, in 1948 or '50, he came to Phoenix. KURN: Who taught religious school when you were in first grade or second grade? LEWKOWITZ: My mother, I can remember, but she was never my teacher. KURN: She taught religious school? LEWKOWITZ: Oh, yes. She was president, or principal, or whatever they called it in those days, for quite a while. KURN: Did she have a Judaica training? LEWKOWITZ: None, other than at home. In those days you didn't even have to be a teacher. They just started that. In fact, when I came back from the service in the early 50's, '54 or something, '56 I came back, I taught at the temple for a couple of years. That's when they had double sessions, Saturdays and Sundays. I was worn out. I just taught on Sundays. That was a chore, double sessions. Phil Chapman was the head of it then and he started to question - not he, but others, I guess, on the religious school board - whether we had professional qualifications or not. I don't know if it necessarily means you have to be a teacher to be able to stay two pages ahead of the kids. KURN: Where was the temple when you were going to religious school as a little kid? LEWKOWITZ: At 122 East Culver. KURN: What did it look like inside? LEWKOWITZ: Exactly the same as it does today. KURN: How many rooms are in it? LEWKOWITZ: There was a big hall for the congregation. KURN: Services? LEWKOWITZ: Services, and collapsible chairs. They also used it for banquets, for meetings. It was the Jewish Community Center, really. In fact, I think that's what it was built for initially and became Temple Beth Israel. I can remember the collapsible chairs. In the back they had one little alcove for books and another little alcove was for coats and stuff like that. Then there was a kitchen in the northwest corner where they did everything. Then there was a little pass way and they built this religious school addition. When I was a kid I lived at 720 West Palm Lane, from the time I was 5 until my early 20's when they sold the home. My folks lived there and only sold it because my father was ill. Those rooms were just humongous - I was never in a bigger home in my life. Afterward, I came back- about ten years ago - I went through that house and I thought, gosh, this is nice, but it wasn't that -- you know, you grow up in a place and you think it's like a mansion. KURN: Did they have just one room for religious school? LEWKOWITZ: No, they had about four or five. KURN: Oh, really? LEWKOWITZ: Yeah. They used to take you in little pockets, too, before they built the Sunday School addition. There were about three or four pockets in this temple itself, in the main sanctuary, but they were all removable chairs. I remember when Sol and Reva Lebeau were married in the old temple, because my mother and dad - you know, they were nice enough to take me, but I had to stay in one of those alcoves with the coats or the books or something like that. KURN: Why? LEWKOWITZ: Because I was a hell-raiser. I wasn't a real nice kid. KURN: I didn't know that. LEWKOWITZ: Oh, yeah. I see my grandchildren now, and, of course, every time they act up I think, I'm not going to say anything. I was probably worse when I was a kid. I think I'm very lucky that I'm seven and a half, eight years younger than my brother, because I don't think I would have lived had Bert had his way. I was really a needler. I'd hang around when he was a senior in high school. I was in the fifth grade. He used to tell me I was quite obnoxious. I thought I was a wonderful boy, good kid. KURN: You had four or five classrooms, so there were quite a few Jewish kids. LEWKOWITZ: Well, eventually. And we're talking about World War II time. I think it was 1948 that they dedicated the new temple at 10th Avenue and Osborn and by that time they needed it and, of course, that was moving out really far - all the way to Flower and 10th Avenue. KURN: Do you have any friends left from the religious school days at the old temple? LEWKOWITZ: Oh, sure. Kirk Kroloff was there, Kirk and Judy, although Judy's a little younger. Every once in awhile I run into Paul Lewinthal. Every once in awhile I see - well, Fay Stone was there, my sister was there, of course. we used to call him -- his name is Jack now, I guess. It was Jack Leibsohn, now it's Gene. Mark Leibsohn went by Udell until he went away to college. KURN: Was that his real name? LEWKOWITZ: I think It's Udell Mark Leibsohn. Anyway, he goes by Mark now. Gene was always Jack until he came back to practice medicine and it was Gene. They were there and, of course, the Sitkin boys and my brother. I can't think of people that I run across now that -- KURN: Was that a Saturday, or a Sunday? LEWKOWITZ: Sunday. Always on Sunday. KURN: You talked about services on Sunday. Were those regular -- LEWKOWITZ: No, no. Those are the little Sunday School services. We were the rabbi and we were the cantor and we were the junior congregation. KURN: Did you like religious school? LEWKOWITZ: Oh, yeah, it was fun, except I never learned much. You know, I never really have learned much. I don't fault my parents for not speaking Yiddish in the home, but I learned whatever I know -- and I love it and I really should pursue a course in it or something - I love the idiomatic expressions and they're really non-translatable -- I learned most of it from traveling salesmen when I was working at Korrick's. The guys would come in and use words I'd never heard and they'd explain it. I'd just think they're just cute and really, as I say, non-translatable, and really fun. There are certain words that I picked up from my mother. My father didn't know any - he was one of those that came from a German Reform family. My father is very religious, though, coming from that kind of a background. KURN: Tell me about some of the holidays you celebrated in your home. How did you celebrate? LEWKOWITZ: We never built a Sukkah. I can remember, only when Lois and I were married did I build a Sukkah, but we did have a Sukkah at the temple and had the service there. It wasn't until Rabbi Plotkin got here that they had the little Sukkahs under the stars and supper under the stars and all that. I think it was probably planned between the pizza parlors and Colonel Sanders to promote it. But, seriously, we celebrated all the holidays. I remember Rosh Hashana and Yom Kippur was the big thing, naturally, and we all used to try and fast on Yom Kippur. There was a Safeway store at Culver and Central - it's since been torn down to make room for the new library - and we used to sneak down there and buy some red hots and, of course, your parents would smell the cinnamon on your breath and give you hell. My father, from his Reform background and all, never worked a day in his life I mean, he lost money, literally, by phone calls on Yom Kippur or Rosh Hashana that he wouldn't take. He closed down his office. As a matter of fact, Phoenix used to close down. KURN: No. LEWKOWITZ: Yeah. Rosenzweig's, Korrick's, The Boston Store. All the little Jewish merchants would close their stores. Goldwater's would remain open, because they weren't Jewish. But anything that was Jewish would close down. Until, again, the 40's, but it would always close when I was a youngster. They would close for religious holiday - put ads in the paper, we will be closed tomorrow for religious holiday. KURN: I didn't know that. LEWKOWITZ: Yeah. They'd close down their stores. And Abe Korrick just fought it. He hated it. He just thought that was a terrible thing to do. They were a public institution and blah, blah, blah. His brother, Charles, would argue that we're Jewish, forget business one day. He wouldn't come to services anyway. I don't think he ever went to services. But Charles, I think out of respect - but then he finally got to Charles or times changed or whatever and people didn't identify -- but no, they were very religious. I can remember, too, as a kid they used to have kind of a card table or something out in the front of the temple and did the same old thing they do today, only It was a little cruder then, but they were more direct -- I shouldn't say cruder, bad choice of words -- but they'd try to collect money. That was the one day a year that people would come to the temple - on Rosh Hashana and Yom Kippur. So, If you hadn't paid your dues you didn't get in - you didn't get a ticket. But they ended up letting everybody in anyway. Jews in those days, in the earlier days, were kind of tough. They were mavericks. They had to have a pioneering spirit to come out here. I marvel at the people that went to, like, Nogales or Solomonville or Phoenix even, in those days, or Prescott, because they were so far and so alone, so to speak, religiously. I can remember the joke that they had. Once a year Mr. Spitalny would come, the old Max Spitalny, who was a cousin, I think, to the Korrick's and he had a store just across the street from the Korrick house on 1st Avenue. It was Spitalny's Popular Dry Goods, or something like that. He carried mostly Levi's and cowboy shirts and hats and boots, nothing like Korrick's, never diversified or never grew. But he had about 7 or 8 children and they were grown kids, even some of them professionals and he'd come and pay his $35 and he'd get the whole family in. They all used to grouse about that, you know, that was the gossip then about how the Spitalnys - if they ever get on their own their father pays, you know, and it takes up half the temple with their family. It was a Joke. I can remember riding with my mother, too, in the car and kind of sitting like she double-parked to run in and get $3 from Ben King, who had the King's Dress Shop next to the Fox Theater downtown, and $2 from this guy and $3, as their dues to the temple. My mother would go around collecting the money from Sam Kotzen that had a cigar store, K-o-t-z-e-n, and Ben King. She used to run around collecting money - I think Mr. Boshes at Karl's Shoe Store, he ran Karl's. There were a bunch of guys that worked at Daniel's Jewelry. It was at the corner of 1st Street and Washington where Newberry's Is now. Sam Straus, Mal's brother, was the general manager and Mal Straus worked for his brother. A guy named Oscar Kline was the watchmaker and Mr. Heckler had a store on the other side of Korrick's, oh, I guess if Korrick's was 106 East Washington this must have been about 110. It was kind of a low-end jewelry store, semi-pawn shop type, Mr. Meckler had. There was a guy working for him and my mom used to stop and get the $2 - Al Gottleib. He was active in B'nai B'rith also. There was a Jewish bakery - I don't know if you know this either, Bobbi - it was called Handels. Eventually, I think they sold it to Karsh's, but it was located on about 4th Street and Washington. Phoenix had a downtown in those days that was really concentrated and the streetcar ran up and down Washington and ran up and down 5th Avenue and 3rd and 4th Street. That was our mass transportation, but it's better than we have now - we have none, other than buses. KURN: It wasn't on tracks. LEWKOWITZ: Yes. KURN: It was on tracks? LEWKOWITZ: Oh, yeah. one of the old streetcars is still on Central Avenue behind the Arizona Historical Society. Oh, yeah, we used to raise hell on the streetcars. KURN: In what way? LEWKOWITZ: Just ring the guy's bell and stop there on Palm Lane and 5th Avenue or something - just little kids - put pennies down on the track and have them flattened out. It was fun, a lot of fun. At 4th Street and Washington was this Handels Bakery. My mother would go down there every Friday and get a rye bread or a challa or whatever. She'd always get two, particularly the rye bread, because the kids would always be in the back seat and by the time we got home I think we'd eaten it. It was fresh bread, warm still. But they were open Saturdays, everybody was open Saturdays. They never had any religious significance. To my knowledge, there never was a service on Saturday at the temple until maybe the 50's, again. KURN: Friday night? LEWKOWITZ: It was always Friday night. That was it, Friday night. I do not remember a service on Saturday until Rabbi Plotkin, I think, started it. It was primarily for bar mitzvahs, you know, although when I was bar mitzvahed my father was president of the temple. This was in 1943 or '44. Anyway, I would have been 13 in July. They never had services -- KURN: In the summer? LEWKOWITZ: No. Anywhere in Phoenix they didn't have services. Everybody took off. There wasn't air conditioning in the temple or anything. They may have had swamp coolers - I doubt it, though. I remember just sweating like hell in some of the services. The most they had was swamp coolers. I know that they closed down the temple, religious school and everything. This was a closed down town from about Memorial Day to Labor Day. Well, I was supposed to be bar mitzvahed in July, so Rabbi Krohn said, "Well, we don't have services then. God takes a vacation, too, I guess. maybe God only operates nine months a year" or did in Phoenix. But, seriously, he said, "Well, we can't have it then, Herman, what do you think about Rosh Hashana?" They were going to have my bar mitzvah - in fact, he started to train me and the thing about Abraham. My father and mother went to the rabbi and said, "We don't want that. People are not going to get subjected to our son's bar mitzvah on the holiest day of the year." So, I ended up being bar mitzvahed on my mother's birthday in February. Even though I was 13 and a half I was bar mitzvahed then by Rabbi Krohn. My dad was president when I was bar mitzvahed. Some many years later - 25 years later or whatever - I was president of the temple when Herman, my son, was bar mitzvahed. Herman is named, obviously, for my father. Herman has a son named Adam, who is now 6, so I told Herman he's got to hustle or he's not going to make it. You know, tradition. KURN: Better get active. LEWKOWITZ: Yeah. Well, he was active. He was on the Board. He was the secretary of the temple. The kid's only 29, it's kind of rough to do that with three little kids. KURN: Did you feel good about your bar mitzvah? LEWKOWITZ: Oh, yeah. I felt like I'd accomplished something. I had really made a commitment. I never felt like I wasn't Jewish. I guess anybody could cross the line easily. You know, it's a psychological, mental thing, belief, not like the clothes you wear or tattoos you might have. I never thought other than I was Jewish. I really enjoyed the individuality of that. I liked the difference - like maybe you like being short, I like being tall. I don't like being just one of the gang. It's probably easy to fit into that mold, but I find it more fun not to, to be individualistic. KURN: Would Friday night services be a place that most people went? LEWKOWITZ: Yeah, I think so. At least my family and their friends. Most of my family's friends were Jewish, close friends. They had a diversity of friends, you know. My mother was president of the PTA in high school and grade school. my father, as I said, was active in the Elks and the Legion and the Welfare Board. There were a lot of things they were active in, but when it came down to family, their close friends were Jewish. KURN: Would she make a special dinner for Friday night? LEWKOWITZ: Yes. Every Friday. She always changed dishes for Pesach. Can you imagine that? Yes, in those days my mother would change dishes on Passover. I never knew a lot of that stuff and nobody ever really instructed me. That's why I kind of -- I don't resent my religious school education. I went there, but I didn't learn a hell of a lot. I learned more that little time, let's say, for my own kids. Pat didn't care much about she never was anything but Jewish, I don't mean that but I always would make sure there was wine and bread and light the candles, because she didn't care. That's the home she came from. Then when Lois Ann and I were married, of course, there was - up until about four years ago - we used to have a Sabbath meal. The day she became Shomer Shabbos she quit making Friday night meals. That's one thing I couldn't figure out. Sorry, that's on tape now - can't be used against me. Anyway, I enjoyed the practice of Judaism. KURN: Did the temple have parties and dances? Was the temple the center of the Jewish activities in 30's and 40's? LEWKOWITZ: Pretty much. I think I sensed -- and I could be a hundred percent wrong -- I sensed even a sort of class system in the temple. Maybe that's true still to this day, that the more religious you are the less active you are business wise. In other words, it costs more to be a member of the temple than, let's say, it did the shul - than, let's say, it did the Orthodox, the really Orthodox. Although it's not true, but it seemed like those that were more active in the temple -- or more active in the community as well. It was, I guess, kind of a holdover of that German reform thing, almost a snobbish thing. I went to Seattle and that's the first time I ever came in contact with that. I was a member of the ZBT fraternity. Until the year that I was a pledge, when one of my best friends joined, there had never been a Sephardic Jew asked, even though Seattle has a horrendous amount of Sephardic Jews. But, they were kind of considered the lower class, I guess, or something. It's dumb thing for me to even repeat, but it's an observation. Louis Soriano was one of my close friends. He's still alive and his son is a neurosurgeon that was out here at Barrow's and I enjoyed when he was here the second generation of friendship. He was the first Sephardic that was asked to join ZBT at the University of Washington. The Sephardic Jews had what they called AB Pi or something, another fraternity. They didn't take in the Ashkenasis, I guess - I don't know. I remember my folks, come to think of it, making reference to the Gallitzianer, you know, like they're horse thieves or something. I never knew what the hell that meant. My grandmother, I think, said, "oh, Lewkowitz, what do you expect?" or something like that. But, the temple was the center. we used to have big things. They don't have it as much now. We used to have the Purim Festival and we used to have the Queen Esther Ball you know the Purim Ball. Of course, they had Miss Jewish Queen Esther, they had everyone dressed in costume. I think, more than they do now. KURN: And those were big doings that a lot of people went to? LEWKOWITZ: Yeah. And there used to be quite a social life in the temple itself. I have some pictures of the Feffers, Sr. Feffers, and I have pictures of the Kroloffs, the Levys, the Herzbergs - Dr. Herzberg and his wife, and all these people that you said used to have parties - together. The source of friendship was the temple, of course, then they became social outside the temple, much as you and I would do. We meet somebody because of our Jewish affiliation, but then we'd go to a football game with them, or a movie, or dinner. Now, the AZA, as I say, I never felt really comfortable in that group, even though my father was active in B'nal B'rith, my brother was a member and my sister was in BBG. I joined it, but I never really participated. I felt uncomfortable. KURN: Why? LEWKOWITZ: Again, I didn't know a lot of those guys. I wasn't really comfortable and I didn't feel the necessity, let's say, to join. I had other activities in high school. KURN: Non-Jewish? LEWKOWITZ: Yeah, non-Jewish. You know, Demolay or Latin Club, or the band - things you do in high school that keep you pretty busy. There wasn't that necessity. I never felt like I was advocating, let's say, my Jewishness, by not participating, any more than I do know. There are just so many things you can do and spread yourself so thin. You try to keep active in Jewish things, but you can become a full time Camp Fire girl, or a full time Jew or -- KURN: Your folks didn't mind that you weren't dating Jewish girls in high school? LEWKOWITZ: There weren't any to date. oh, I think they would have preferred it, but they knew they never had a problem with me - that when it came time to get married I would marry a Jewish girl, which I did - twice. And, you know, to this day, I know quite a few marriages - friends, sons, daughters, whatever, that they didn't get married until one or the other converted to Judaism. From my personal standpoint I think that's nice - it may satisfy Mom and Dad. To me, it's a convenience, and I don't believe Judaism is a convenience type of thing. If somebody were to convert after really almost living Judaism for awhile and took classes and had that kind of voluntary thing, but to do it just to -- I mean, my sister-in-law, Bert's wife, converted - one of those instant, anointing conversions and she's Jewish, and the kids are born Jewish. When they got divorced she was back as an Episcopalian. When her niece was killed years ago, she put -- contrary to Kathy's desires, I'm sure, and the boys, my brother -- she cremated the body and had the ashes in the Episcopal Church. They don't change - I mean, she never did. I never felt that there was any doubt in my parents' mind that I would abdicate my Judaism or take a wife other than Jewish. KURN: We've heard great stories about this Men's Club. They used to have parties and they used to get together. You were too young, weren't you? LEWKOWITZ: Yes, and so was my brother. Those guys would be 75, 85, 80 now. I think Cecil Newmark is 80 now, isn't he? They've been married 54 years, I think. so he's in his 80's and Phil's about the same. Any of those guys who are around are that age. KURN: But it was a Jewish club. LEWKOWITZ: Always Jewish, all Jewish. They had a lot of fun. I guess they started out like a softball team and ended up doing more sedentary type of stuff as they got older. KURN: Did they ever do any good deeds in the community? LEWKOWITZ: Oh, yeah, I think so. I'm not as acquainted with that. I knew only that my father installed them every year. They thought an awful lot of my dad. I think he helped organize them - in fact, I'm sure he did. They were young kids, in their 20's, 30's, and he was like a mentor. I think Charles Korrick, also. KURN: Do you remember when the Jewish Family and Children got started? LEWKOWITZ: No. I think that was in the early 50's. I think Florence Frank was the first -- KURN: Or when the Federation got started? LEWKOWITZ: I think the Federation, if I recall, and, again, I may be confusing this with the Jewish Community Center, but it seemed to me that Hirsh and Helen Kaplan had this kind of office or something, somewhere, around Central and Encanto, or something like that, in an old home, when they first started, and that was the Federation - or the Jewish community Center. They used to come over and visit at great lengths with my father. At that particular point I had pretty much left town. In '48 I went to the University of Washington. Then I was pursuing my education or my service, my Air Force service until I got back in '56. By the time I got back in '56 -- although I would come back and forth, but when I'd come back and forth I wasn't here that long, particularly to get involved in the historical aspect, let's say, of the Federation. KURN: How about Kivel? LEWKOWITZ: Kivel - same thing. I think that started in the early 50's when I was not here. I've been on the Kivel Board, I've been on the Federation Board, the Community Center Board. The Kivel Board -- well, I think any hospital board (I'm on the Children's Hospital Board now), they're very frustrating. Kivel was very frustrating to me. I sat through the meeting in which Mr. and Mrs. Goldsmith gave $500,000 or something. We spent two or three hours In the morning discussing whether or not the letters on the outside should be four inches high or six inches high, and why doesn't Mr. Goldsmith give it to us now - why should he wait until his stock goes x dividend - we should get the dividend. I thought, they ought to have a parade down Central Avenue on this guy's behalf, not start arguing about the size of the letters. I was on the Kivel Board about five or six years, I think, and was on the Board of the Jewish Community Center. I can remember that -- I had a different attitude then. I didn't understand the argument that was being made, whether or not the Jewish Community Center would be open on Saturdays. I remember that -- there are certain things that stand out in your tenure as a Board member. I remember the big discussion as to whether or not they should be open on Saturdays. Well, why not at least leave the gym open forget the offices or forget this. Then there was another discussion about whether or not it should be kosher there. I didn't even know about it and I really kind of almost thought that was silly. I respect it now that people maintain a kosher home, or they practice as they choose, more or less, I respect that individuality, more than I did as a youngster. I just thought everything should be, you know, keep your identity, but meld. I can remember the Jewish Community Center on 16th Street and Camelback - that's where the Reed Mullin Ford -- they had a big zoning problem and all that. That's before they moved over to 17th Avenue and Maryland. The entry was off Camelback and it was right about where Fann Toyota used to be. In the back they had a nice gym don't think they had a swimming pool. I remember also the Century Country Club - I was a charter member of that. That, too, was a situation of each guy that became president wanted to outdo the one before him, so they got it bankrupt. KURN: That was our Jewish country club? LEWKOWITZ: That was our Jewish country club - the Century country club. I remember going out there -- because I was a member of the Phoenix Thunderbirds then and put on the golf thing -- and going out there to their Board of Directors meeting as a member, but also wearing my other hat as Assistant Chairman of the Phoenix Open, to see If we could have practice rounds at the Century Country Club -- or no, I know what it was -- practice rounds and if the Phoenix Country Club members could play at Century while the Phoenix open was being played at the Phoenix Country Club. I remember Arnold Cook saying to me, "Why should we do it, they won't let us play at their course?" I said, "Well, you're not doing it for them, you're doing it for the Phoenix open." That's fine here - I'm not a member of Phoenix Country Club, I'm here as a member of Phoenix -- well, I think eventually they turned it down. "Well, they don't invite us to play in their mixed groups, or their clubs." Well, it wasn't for me to do that. I did the best I could I went back and told them the story, but I'm not involved, even though as chairman of the Phoenix open. They made a lot of mistakes at Century. They dig a pool, they re-dig It, then put a tennis court over it, make a larger kitchen, make a smaller kitchen, make a different locker room. It was a good course. Pat joined it - she played a lot of it. They also had another Jewish club - when I came back from the service. I can't think of the name, Bobbi. It was a little social club - it was prior to the Century Club. It was located in the old Arizona Ambassador and it was just Jewish couples, social stuff. It was on 5th Avenue and Maryland. What did they call that? Judy and Warren were members - we went to a couple of parties. It was all social they'd have a gambling night -- it was couples. KURN: I'll have to get that name. LEWKOWITZ: Yeah, I'll try to get it for you. It was -- I want to say Horizon, but that wasn't it. I think from that group came the nucleus of the Century Country Club. KURN: There's a lot of history to this town and it's really important and good that we're able to get some of these facts and names and events down. A lot of this stuff we haven't gotten yet, so this is a lot of new stuff for us. LEWKOWITZ: Well, Harry Rosenzweig, probably if he can remember stuff, he's pretty good on detail. Have you talked to Newton? He's another some of the old vignettes are really crazy. Like when Charles Korrick had a string of pearls re-strung for his wife, Blanche. He didn't buy them at Rosenzweig's, but he had the guts to go over to Isaac Rosenzweig and said, "You should re-string these for me." He picked them up a couple of days later and he said that'll be $10, Charlie. And he said, "$10 to re-string the pearls? That's a lot of money.", at which point Isaac Rosenzweig took out a scissors and cut the string. And he said, "Now, you've saved yourself $10." I guess they didn't talk for a long while after that. KURN: You're kidding. LEWKOWITZ: Oh, there were a lot of things like that. I remember when my father first came to town there was a company called Friedman Jewelers. Friedman's was big out here earlier in 1900, a cute little store. Mr. Friedman, Harry Friedman was his name, and everybody met him when they first came to town. Blanche Friedman Bernstein- I think she may still be alive, Charles Bernstein's widow, the Supreme Court Judge. Anyway, he only had one arm. His left arm, I think, was off at the elbow. You met him when you first came to town. I remember my folks kidding about it. Then you fed him thereafter. He used to come and almost camp at my mother's and grandmother's. My father used to almost drive him out of the house. He'd just sit there til the next meal, he'd go from one to the other. Anyway, that was kind of a joke. Then the Funks had a jewelry store, F-u-n-k-s. They ended up owning all the Greyhound tracks. There were four or five brothers, five, I think. There was Art and Johnnie and Morris and anyway, I think they had one daughter. I'm not sure. (Tape Incoherent) said, "Well, you have Christmas decorations. You're not Jewish. We don't have Christmas decorations. We don't have a tree. We don't believe in Christmas." She stopped it right then and there. One of her grandchildren had to call it to her attention. Up until that time she always had --- KURN: How did the other Jewish families feel about that? LEWKOWITZ: Well, they just thought that that's their choice and it was ridiculous and I wouldn't do that, but I think there was a sense, maybe, of amalgamation - I don't know. I never felt like I was left out because I didn't have Christmas. There was a time I remember when I was in the choir at Kenilworth grade school. I had a fairly good voice. My son was in the Phoenix Boy's Choir - not because of me, but he developed it. But, there was a time I guess I felt a little overly individualistic. When it came to "Born is the King of Israel" I wouldn't sing. my mother talked to me and said, "You know, if you're going to participate in the choir you're not belittling the Christians because you say that, but it's just music. You're not expressing faith, so either you participate or you get out." So, I did sing in the choir. I've gone to church. When I was at the U of A I went to church at that old mission with a couple guys I knew at the dorm. I asked them and I remember to this day -- I practiced this same thing. "Well, you know I'm Jewish." "Well, fine, I'd like you to come." so, we'd go. I said, "Now, you tell me, when do I kneel, when do I stand?" "You don't do either one, you just sit there." "Why's that?" "Well, because you don't believe in it. It would be hypocritical were you to kneel or stand." Certainly, I wouldn't take Communion, but it was a lesson in ecumenicalism to me. KURN: Good memories of the old days. It's fun. LEWKOWITZ: It really is fun. It's a wonderful town. Nice heritage here. KURN: Were you involved in the beginnings of the Jewish Historical Society? LEWKOWITZ: Yes. KURN: How did that evolve? LEWKOWITZ: My brother and sister and I attended that meeting at the old Statesmen's Club on the top of the First Federal Building - now the Prudential Building, I guess - at Central and Earll, right across from Park Central. I think Marshall Lehman gave a pitch and we were up there. I don't know if my brother was, but my sister and I were. I paid for the Articles of Incorporation. He said how much it was going to cost, I don't know, something like $350, and in fact, I only thought it was going to be $100. That's when I became active, right then. We were charter members, Bert, too. I hope that we can get a facility soon - that's our trouble, we don't have a facility. I'm reluctant to donate some things I'm sure other people are, too - because there's just not the physical plant, so to speak, in order to harbor and keep these things and maintain them. KURN: Jerry, we want to thank you for allowing us to interview you for the Arizona Jewish Historical Society. What you have told us today has great meaning and great historical value for all of us and for years to come. So, thank you for your time and your memories. [end of transcript]