..inte: Burton Kruglick ..intr: Jane Wabnik ..da: 1999 ..ca: ..ftxt: An Interview with Burton Kruglick March 21, 1999 Transcriptionist: Karen Hirsch Interviewer: Jane Wabnik Arizona Jewish Historical Society Log for Burton Kruglick Interview Pages 1-2 Moved to Phoenix 1950s. Career as a stockbroker, began several small businesses up through 1960s which he sold in 1982. 2-3 Involvement with Jaycees beginning in 1957 in Phoenix. 3 Finance chairman of Republican Party in Maricopa County; State Finance Chairman, 1966. Duties discussed. 4 Being Jewish did not interfere with commitments to community. 4-5 Committed to overall community activities rather than be active in just Jewish community. 5 Involvement with the Girl Scout Council in Phoenix, the Boys and Girls Clubs, National Council of Christians and Jews, Central Arizona Shelter Service, Valley of the Sun School for the Mentally Retarded Board. 6 Twenty-five years in politics; philosophy of involvement in political activity. 7 State and party politics; growth of Phoenix. 8 Duties of chairman of the Republican Party in Arizona. 9 The Republican Party organization; his contributions to the organization. 10 Functions of the Republican Party. 11 Beliefs of why Jews are historically Democratic. 12 Problems with Governor Mecham: the Christian Nation Resolution; Jewish response to the Republican Party (and him) because of the Resolution and the problems with Mecham. 13-14 Philosophy about why Jews should be Republican. Disputes the popular concept of why Jews are Democrats. Mentions AIPAC. 15 Discusses options in past about running for office; possibility of running for Mayor of Phoenix in future; no commitments made. 15 Jewish community periodically turns to him to speak for or to Jews. There is no Republican Jewish Committee as such in the Party. 16 Jewish concerns expressed to him as Chairman by other Jews. Neutrality essential to position. 17-18 Everyday duties of the Party Chairman. Statement made concerning Governor Mecham running in 1990. 18 Major issues affecting Arizona in general. Need for good elected people to address those issues. 19 Issues concerning the Jewish community in the future; need for Jews to be involved in the communities in which they live. 20 Membership at Temple Beth Israel since 1950s; first to be married in new structure. 20-21 Personal relationships in family. 21-22 Judaic upbringing of children; traditions continued; second marriage to non-Jew; grandchildren. 23-25 Jewish people involved in politics in Arizona. 26 Harry Rosenzweig as first Jewish State Chairman for the Republican Party; other Jews in Republican politics include Robert Usdane and George Weisz and Barry Goldwater (who is half-Jewish). 26-27 People basically elect best qualified person and do not necessarily vote for or against someone of a different religion, culture or color. 27 Extended family living in Arizona. 28 Children and grandchildren not interested in politics. General feelings of why more people do not get involved in politics; his commitment to volunteers in politics. 29 Possibilities of forming a Jewish Republican Committee; Jewish Republican Committee for Bush organized during 1988 campaign. 30-31 Statement of responsibility of Americans. Burton Kruglick Interview We're at the home of Burton Kruglick. I'm Jane Wabnik and I'm representing the Arizona Jewish Historical Society. Mr. Kruglick has kindly consented to allow us to interview him and we're going to turn him loose with his memories. And I would like to begin by asking you something about your move here. I notice that you were born in Chicago and then you lived in Dallas for a while, and then you came to Phoenix, Arizona. Could you just kind of take us back and compare for us some of the community changes that you noticed, particularly in terms of the Jewish community? KRUGLICK: Well, I lived in Chicago until I was eighteen and then I went into the service, in nineteen hundred and forty-three, and I was in the service until ah, the, ah, early part of nineteen hundred and forty-five. Ah, when I was in the service I traveled in the military to Europe, and then to the Philippine Islands and I came home I think in February of 1945 from Manila in the Philippine Islands. And after I came home I went to, ah, well, I went to Dallas, Texas actually I thought about, I was going to go back to school and then I decided I had better try to make a living so I went to Dallas, Texas where I worked, ah, for a while, ah, in the business of selling radios and then I got into being a manufacturer's representative, ah, and then I got into the commodity business and then in 1957 I left there and moved to Phoenix, ah, with my wife, we had three children and when we lived in Dallas, a boy and then twin girls and ah, when the girls were just six weeks old we traveled by car from Dallas to Phoenix where I became a, ah, stockbroker. And I was a stockbroker from about nineteen hundred and fifty-seven, when I came to Phoenix, until about nineteen hundred and sixty- three or four, ah, when I started in on the side of, line of, working with coin operated laundry equipment, putting laundry equipment into apartment buildings, trailer parks, ah, mobile parks, laundry -laundramats, and then, ah, ah, I gave up being a stockbroker and gave full time to this business as it continued to develop and grow and actually, actually we started, I started in 1961 when I was still a stockbroker but then I got into it full time about 1965 until, and then in 1982 I sold the business. Ah, we also had a retail appliance business and a rental, home rental appliance business, but I liquidated all of it and sold it all in 1982. Ah, when I lived in Dallas I also was involved with commodities, with the commodity business and that's how I got into the brokerage business, stock brokerage when I came to, ah, Phoenix. And, ah, I had never been involved in community activities where I lived in Dallas because I traveled and I didn't have a lot of time. I never got involved with community activities until I came to Phoenix and I got involved in the Jaycees at kind of a late age, I didn't start out when I was in my twenties, in nineteen hundred and fifty-seven when I got involved I was about 32 years old at the time which was a little late to start but it was the first time I had any time to get involved with public and civic activities. And I was very much involved with the Jaycees having gone through all the chairs, and becoming President. Also I was Chairman of the Phoenix Rodeo which was one of the largest projects of the Jaycees in the whole United States. And, ah, we had a very successful rodeo in Phoenix. I, the year I was Rodeo Chairman our rodeo was, that rodeo, that project that year in nineteen hundred and sixty-three was selected as the number one Jaycee project in the United States from the standpoint of size and money and everything. So, that was a nice feeling, but when I, when I, ah, got out of being involved with the Jaycees I decided I wanted to get involved with politics. And I got involved with the Republican Party, which I happen to be a Republican, and, ah, I became Finance chairman of the Maricopa County Party for about two years and then I became State Finance Chairman in nineteen hundred and sixty-six. Our job was to raise the money for the operation of the party and support of the programs and candidates and all those type of things. And, ah, beside running my business, I was active in the Party for, from then on I've been active politically for about twenty-five years, ah, in Republican politics. WABNIK: Did you find that being Jewish in any way affected people's attitudes toward what you were doing or the fact that you chose that particular party? (Kruglick receives telephone call, tape stopped. Tape started again and interview continued with answer to previous question.) KRUGLICK: Well, let me say this. I've never let the fact that I'm Jewish bother me in anything that I've done or do. Ah, if there are people that don't like Jewish people that's their problem, it's not mine. I went about, I did the things I was committed to, and that I agreed to do and that I felt I had wanted to do and I didn't let religion in any way interfere with my commitment. And if there were people that, who were negative toward me, I didn't let that interfere with my approach to the way I did things and whatever I may have or not have accomplished, you know, ah, if it was, if it was a, a factor, it wasn't a factor that I let bother me or interfere in what my approach was to things. And I realize that there are some, that out there, it's been there, its not going to go away. I also at one time was asked to get very actively involved with the Jewish community and I decided that I would rather, I wanted to get more involved with the overall community because I felt, being Jewish, that it was more important for people to, ah, understand and know that Jewish people were no different from anybody else and that we're involved with the community and we were not just involved with Jewish affairs and Jewish related functions. There are many Jewish people who are only involved themselves with Jewish affairs and Jewish functions. I don't happen to agree with that, I think you must assimilate into the overall community so that people accept the fact and realize that you're no different than they are. And, ah, so I chose to go the community route, not, not totally ignoring the Jewish community but not getting myself where I was so involved I didn't have time for the general community and other things, other areas of the community. So that's my approach to it and that's why I got involved with the Girl Scouts, the council here, the Arizona Cactus Pine Girl Scout Council, and I was their Finance Chairman, and I was their, I was a Vice-President, and I was in office ten, twelve years and I just decided that was enough. I was involved with the Boys Clubs of Phoenix, Boys and Girls Clubs now, as President for two terms, in fact I was the last one to be a two-term President. Most of the terms are for one year, and they don't normally elect you for a second year because of the way the procedure is. And ah, I was very much involved with that and we have one of the best Boys and Girls Clubs in the country here in Phoenix, it's a large, large organization. And, ah, ah, I've been involved with different organizations, National Council of Christians and Jews, ah, the shelter for the homeless, Central Arizona Shelter Services, I've been with Valley of the Sun School for the Mentally Retarded Board and many others, ah, other groups, ah, but you find that you only can do so much and only have so much time. But I've devoted a lot of my time to politics. Ah, having been involved in national politics beside local, I've been a delegate to four National Conventions, I've, I'm serving my third term as Chairman of the party in Arizona and, ah, I think I've worked with almost every kind of person at every level whether it's been the federal level, or state or local, city, county level. And ah, I think people need to get involved in government, with politics, I think it's important, because too many people want to set back and criticize and not be a player and I, I tell people that, you know, that if they don't like what's going on they should get involved and let people know how they feel and if they don't like what's happening, do something about it, because that's what it is, it's people, doing things, political process for twenty-five years now, ah, ah, I feel that I, you know, what I do I do because its a,a,a, like, somebody wrote an article, a story in the Jewish News and they said that, about me, a whole article, "politics is his passion" they wrote the article, whatever that's interpreted to be. But, ah, I've enjoyed meeting people and being with people and you see, I've never let being Jewish interfere with my politics, I know there are some people who are not enthralled with Jewish people in the political arena and, ah, if they, ah, work against me or, ah, you know, that's their problem and I don't let it interfere with my commitment and what I have to do. I don't let religion play a factor in my commitments to everybody and the job that I have. WABNIK: What kinds of changes do you feel have taken place for the better since you have come to Phoenix and obviously you've had some influence on those changes with your involvement... KRUGLICK: You mean in the political arena? WABNIK: In whichever arena you... KRUGLICK: Well, I've never really done too much in city politics although I did work on some of the Charter government things, ah, my main area has been involved in state, party politics to try to help elect people. Ah, people that, you know, are conservative and basically believe in the Republican platform of less government, less taxation, ah, involvement, let the people do more things rather than big daddy kind of trying to do it all. And I've seen Phoenix obviously expand and grow in the past twenty-five years, ah, I've seen people come and go with different agendas, different ideas, different programs, some of them better than others, others who left a lot to be desired, ah,, but really the success of a community in my opinion is based on the people, and the commitment of people willing to make a contribution and be part of it and sometimes if things happen like growth, regardless of the people, ah, in spite of government, in spite of people it's going to be, ah, a major city, it's going to grow. And, ah, ah, I think that support, the people have good representation and are not taken for granted by elected officials and that, ah, if we continue to expand and develop the area, because this is one of the major areas, one of the big cities of the country, it will continue to be, and, ah, so I've just been there and seen it develop and I've been a part of it from the political process. The business community, ah, you know, I've been involved with some of that when I had a business, but different things come along that may appeal to me and I want to get involved with. But I have concentrated a lot of my efforts in the political arena and the last four years and the next two as Chairman of the party, ah, it's a very time consuming, demanding job, because you're dealing with people of different beliefs, different ideals, different philosophies, and, and, it's a matter of just trying to work with them all and you can't please everybody, everybody has different views and different thoughts and, ah, and no matter what you do you are the butt of all their ah, abuse. Because whatever you do you're going to find some of the people don't agree with you. And ah, whatever decisions are made you get the finger pointed right at you. You have to stand up and be responsible for what happens and be willing to basically take the abuse. And, ah, the Chairman does not get paid in the State of Arizona, it's volunteer. And now there are some states in the country where chairmans are paid, the State Chairmen are paid, but not in this state. Ah, but I've basically have enjoyed it although at times it's frustrating and you wonder why anybody would want to be involved with this particular job in politics because like I said, you're the butt of everybody's abuse whether it be elected officials or just citizens who have something to gripe about. And so you have to be very careful what you say and do, ah, to try to not create a lot of, ah, problems by remarks you make because people pick up the smallest things that you say and do, you know. You don't think you said anything that's really earth shattering and then it becomes an issue. WABNIK: Do you find that relative to the population growth in the state there are more people willing to volunteer to help with politics or is there no growth, percentage-wise I'm talking about, not actual growth? KRUGLICK: Well, it, you find, the party organization has grown very dramatically in the last few years. We have a very large party organization, far superior to the Democrats. And up until nineteen hundred and eight-five this state was primarily a Democratic state. Going back twenty, thirty, or forty years of the registration figures show that the registration figures were six and eight-to-one over Republicans. But in 185, after I became Chairman in 185, we became the majority party, in '85, over Democrats and continue to expand that over the past four years. And I think that's because Arizona is one of the more conservative states in the country and, ah, the people are more conservative here and as one looks at the record of voting they can see that. Arizona is the only state to have voted for the Presidential, Republican Presidential nominee since 1952. We're the only state with that record, ah, a broken record, so, ah, a lot of people who have come here, new people, find it more comfortable to be a Republican than a Democrat and register Republican. And one of the things you'll find more people like to get involved with races, campaigns of candidates, because there's a short span there, most people, the involvement of the political party is very demanding and time consuming and it's become a year 'round involvement. So a lot of people don't want to make that kind of commitment but they are willing to get involved around election time and especially get involved with candidates. People like to be tied to an individual, ah, because they feel they can drop the name, they like to give individuals who run for office money, so they feel they have their ear when it comes to things that they may want to discuss or ask favors about, or whatever it might be. The party, it's difficult for the party to do that. So the party has a difficult time competing with candidates when it comes to people, money and things like that. Ah, but, ah, I think the party is a very important part of the system because it goes on year 'round and it's the focal of everything that happens. Ah, the party's basic function is to build the organization, to register people, disseminate information and elect people. And that's the key in the organization that does an outstanding job although some people are always critical of the party, like to knock the party organizations. Ah, I don't believe that's warranted. Those people are only looking out for themselves, ah, because they only care about their own interests whereas the party cares about everybody and everything and, ah, we have, we have a commitment to ah, offer the party as a vehicle for new people, people that may want to run for office and elected officials resent that, because they feel maybe we're creating competition for them. But we don't feel we're creating competition, we don't go out and seek people to run unless there's nobody running for that position. But we try to make people aware to what's involved if you run for public office, and Owhat commitments you have to make and things like that., so that when they do, if they do decide to run, people don't see somebody out there that gives the impression of being, ah, somebody who doesn't know what's going on and wonder how we could let them run. So it's important for us to make people aware, and educate them as much as possible through seminars, through programs that we have, through literature and other things. And it's something we just have to do. WABNIK: It's traditionally been said that the Jewish population in most countries is a very active, politically active group. Do you find in Arizona that the Jewish community throughout the state is more or less active than the rest of the population? KRUGLICK: Well, most, most Jewish people tend to be Democratic and it's true in Arizona. Ah, we do have some Jewish people, a few, who are very active in the Republican Party, have been elected to office and have done a very good job. Ah, so I don't know how active the Jewish people are as far as being active .within the Democratic Party, how active they get. I don't know of any Jewish people who have been elected to office that I can think of off the top of my head in Arizona. That doesn't mean there weren't any. But, I can't think of any to speak of, ah, although the Jewish people tend to be more Democratic, much more, ah, but what happens is Jewish people tend to get involved in special situations. They get involved in specific campaigns. Ah, people like, they find they are supportive of Israel, supportive of Jewish causes, and Jewish issues that relate to the Jewish community. And I think they feel that they have a better opportunity with the Democratic Party because I guess when their parents came over here and they all settled back East, and, in the communities that were basically Democratic--New York, and Philadelphia and Chicago, and those were some of the places where they'd go, and they'd find that the Democratic Party and that's all they knew and they became Democratic and their children became Democrats and so forth. Ah, but the Jewish people tend to get involved with candidates, ah, specifically, and causes, specific causes, especially causes that relate to Israel and how supportive is this candidate of Israel. And the majority of them don't get involved specifically with the Republican Party. But like I say we have some good Jewish people who are Republicans, ah, and ah, do get involved, but ah, not to the extent that I'd like to see them get involved. But, we constantly try to involve all people and ah, ah, when you get some of these special situations, ah, like the problem with Governor Mecham, well, then the Jewish people tend to become disenchanted with the Republican Party because of this, his background, his beliefs, his expression of things. The Christian Nation Resolution obviously was a total disaster and we had to go around and making people understand that it did not represent the thinking of the Republican Party, which it doesn't, but it conflicts with the Republican platform and that everybody is welcome in the Party and that our position is just what it was before that resolution was unfortunately passed. It was a unfortunate mistake. So, ah, ah, we do find that there, I think there are more Jewish people that are Republican than some people realize, but a lot of them don't get active in the Party politics but they will get active in candidates' campaigns and Jewish issues. WABNIK; Do you find that members of the Jewish community will, when issues such as the Christian Nation issue or the Mecham issue come up, turn to you much sooner than they might otherwise have turned to the Republican Party in terms of expecting answers about why these things have occurred? KRUGLICK: Well, it's like anything else, you know, until something comes up that affects you in one way or another most people don't get involved or show any interest. When something affects people, directly or indirectly, ah, then all of a sudden they get involved and want their feelings known. Just like when a taxes bill is passed if it affects some people right away they become alarmed and express themselves. The same thing with Jewish people. Ah, that, they, basically I don't think they tend to get involved in a high profile political way, but they do get involved with candidates. They do get involved with issues, like, you know, ADL got very involved with this Christian Nation Resolution. AIPAC is a national group, ah, Americans for Public Affairs Committee, and strictly they deal with Israeli issues with the Congress. They are the only official group that's represented to deal with Congress on Israeli issues, and ah, they work with both sides of the aisle. Ah, but I just, I just find, ah, that, ah, Jewish people are very opinionated and if they're Democrat it's hard to switch them over. Ah, and ah, obviously the Republican Party is more progressive I think, they offer more. I don't know, I can't see how a Jewish person will affiliate themselves with an organization with people like Jesse Jackson and Farrahkan, high profile and basically are trying to take over the Democratic Party. I think the Jews are sent a message that, ah, you know, they ought to take a look at the Republican Party, the Republican Party offer I think, can offer them a lot more. Jewish people tend to be capitalistic in nature and the Republican Party I think fits that, and if they look at the platform of both parties I think they'd find they would be more comfortable with the Republican platform. But for some reason, I guess they think that Republicans don't care about minorities and that's wrong, they do care about minorities. Ah, but they need to get involved, make their feelings known and become a player, otherwise they shouldn't criticize, you know. WABNIK: Do you feel that any of your Judaic upbringing and background affected what we shall refer to as the "passion for politics" as the Jewish News entitled that article? KRUGLICK: I don't think so because my parents weren't basically political. They were just people who, you know, my mother raised a family and my father worked in business, owned a business and ah, I just don't think it had any affect at all because I really didn't become interested in politics until I had gone through my Jaycee involvement and I just thought that politics was government, government was something that affected our everyday lives and it was something that I thought I would like to get involved with. Ah, perhaps when I got involved I should have done other things, more other things than be Finance Chairman for ten years, the first ten years of my involvement, you know, but I'd never run for public office. WABNIK: Would you consider doing that? KRUGLICK: Ah, well there are some people talked to me about running for Secretary of State, and Treasurer, and even Mayor of the City of Phoenix now, but I don't know whether I would, you know. First of all, I'm older, although I don't consider myself older; I'm older and I don't know whether I would want to make that commitment. I, there are other things that I wanted to do, you know, and I've given a lot to the Party, and so I don't know that I would want to run, but at this time I have no commitment to run for anything. WABNIK: Does the Party ever turn to you for advice in terms of dealing with the Jewish community since I know very often in the news it's referred to as a separate entity? KRUGLICK: The Jewish community? WABNIK: Yes. KRUGLICK: Well, ah, yeah, they've, the thing is this. You know, sometimes we've, ah, there's been an effort to, like I spoke as a surrogate for Senator Goldwater when he ran last time through the Jewish community. Ah, as far as -matters, we don't have a specific Republican Jewish Committee like the Hispanics or the Blacks or the Young Republicans, or other groups like the Federation of Women, which encompasses all women, ah, so I think obviously that if there are Jewish issues that came up, ah, I would have to be the focal point for what might come up or what decisions were made unless I took it to the Party or the Executive Committee, which really doesn't meet that often. But ah, ah, on this Christian Nation thing, I was bombarded by the Jewish community and by Jewish organizations about it and obviously being Jewish, I, you know, they wondered how I could allow this to happen. Well it wasn't really within my jurisdiction to stop it, ah, I really didn't know it was happening, because of a procedure we have. But I did obviously speak out against it after it happened and spearheaded the campaign against it which we did resolve with a replacement resolution. Ah, ah, ah, I would be a focal point, for as long as I'm Chairman, for things that go on in the Jewish community that might relate to the Republican Party. Ah, and that doesn't bother me at all. Ah, I've had Jewish people say they weren't not going to give the Party any more money as long as these people are involved. And I can't control; the Party is open to everybody. And so it's a problem, you have to accept it and do what you think is right. I've always done that, what I think is right, because my job is to deal with everybody regardless of what their political affiliation is. I mean at what their relation is within the Party, their affiliation should be Republican. And, ah, so that's one of the reasons I think people respect me is that I've tried to be fair and with all groups and understand as Republicans they are part of the political party and I can't re.... I don't feel I can leave anyone out of the party because of how they think. The party is made up of people for all walks of life, and all religions, and all beliefs and all income status. So, I feel I have to have the door open to work with them all, ah, because the minute you don't do that you're not being the leader you're supposed to be and you're diminishing the potential of their involvement in helping elect Republicans. And so I've tried to work regardless of where they come from. We even, we even had a, last year, ah, a Republican homosexual club form in this state. They called and probably thought that I was going to read them out of the Party, which I didn't because, I knew if I would do that I would get a lot of bad, a lot of press about it, which I didn't want. So, I said listen, I may not agree with your lifestyle, but everybody is welcome in this Party. And so, ah, there was no problem because of that. And ah, I think, I don't think they've done too well, I haven't heard too much about them anymore. I think they were looking for a lot of publicity and felt they could get it through me. But I didn't give them that opportunity and because I knew, I felt that was what would have occurred. And so you've got to make decisions regarding all the people of the party. It's an ongoing, day by day, everyday involvement of people calling, and people wanting. A lady called today who's called several times. I won't talk to her, finally got one of the secretaries down at the office, and she's very unhappy because of the Resolution. She supports the Christian Nation Resolution. Now we have a lot of that, but that's all part of what goes on every day, I don't worry about it. I made a statement that I thought Evan Mecham maybe shouldn't run again for Governor and give somebody else a chance and I had a few people call me and didn't like it. I said, "I didn't say he shouldn't run, I said we'd support whoever wins the primary, but I think he ought to consider not running. But I didn't tell him not to run." So you know, those are things that most people would agree with what I've said, but these few supporters don't. WABNIK: I've a two-part question I'd like to ask you, in terms of your political involvement. one is, what do you see as some of the major issues affecting Arizona in general, and the second part of that, particularly in terms of what this recording is for, is what particular issues might you see affecting the Jewish community in the future as Arizona grows and some attitudes change? KRUGLICK: Well, you know this is a growth state and I think the people are concerned about the services that are provided: education, transportation, ah, quality of our air and water, ah, and, ah, health services. We have a large elderly population here, people migrated here, we've got to be concerned about that, ah, the homeless, mentally retarded people who need assistance in that area and you know, it's a, it faces all states but we have a large influx of people here and if we don't have jobs for them, ah, they're not going to stay. So ah, I think it's important that we have good elected people, especially the legislators who understand the complexity of the problem, ah and realize that, you know, you can only tax so much, and then it becomes a real burden on the people. People will not continue to put up with that. And yet, they want services and somehow elected officials tend to want to provide more and more. So, we have a concern, we have a need, we have, a, our, our, overall rural counties that really have not had the attention and services that they need. Ah, a lot of them kind of don't have the growth that happens in Maricopa County, most of the attention is directed toward Maricopa County. As far as the Jewish community goes, involvement I think, ah, it's important for the Jewish people to be involved in the overall communities that they live in and to be involved beyond just Jewish activities, Jewish commitments, that they are involved in because if you isolate yourself from the rest of the community then people don't realize or know the Jewish people are just the same as they are, have the same objective, the same goals, the same beliefs in their family values and they think the Jewish people are not sociable, uninterested and then they become negative towards the Jewish people. So I think that Jewish people have a real responsibility to their community to be involved beyond the Jewish community itself and then there are a lot of Jewish people that are involved that way. But I think we need more of them to share their time between Jewish community activities and Jewish involvement and the overall community activities. WABNIK: I noticed from the form that you filled in for us that you still are involved in the Jewish community. You are a member of Temple Beth Israel. What kind of commitment did you make to that in terms of your family, your children--your grandson told me his name is "Nosh" and that means treat", so obviously there is some connection with his name.KRUGLICK: Well, that's a little bit, that's kind of an unusual situation. Ah, actually my first wife and I were the first couple married at Temple Beth Israel back in the 1950's, shortly after the Temple was finished and ah, my son was Bar Mitzvahed there. My kids went to Sunday School but I really never, again, I've never really gotten totally involved in the Temple activities because I directed more of my activities to community involvement. But I've never really gone overboard in Jewish activities, National Conference of Christian and Jews but that's not a Jewish organization, that's more of a mixed organization. They've been involved when issues come up that affect all segments of different religious activities and groups. Ah, as far as Nosh goes, Nosh actually is my wife's grandson, he's not related to me, it's her son's child and we're raising him. Ah, there were some problem with the mother and father and ah, they had problems and separated and we, he came to live with us four years ago. But he's not actually Jewish. His, ah, father's name was Marshall and his other grandfather's name was Norman and somehow they put that together and came up with the name N- 0-S-H, Nosh. They didn't realize that it was kind of a Jewish expression, a Jewish word. Sometimes we call him "Nosher". They didn't realize it was Jewish and I guess everybody when he goes to Sunday School assumes he's Jewish, which is fine, you know, but ah, I felt that he needed some exposure to some form of religion and my wife, although she's not Jewish, ah, she doesn't have any strong religious ties and she's satisfied to have him go there, ah, you know, so that's fine with me. I don't know how long, I don't know what he has to do if he were to become Bar Mitzvahed what would happen, or how the procedure would be, but he's basically not Jewish. But that's how his name came to be Nosh and ah, we're raising him and we're probably going to adopt him and raise him. It will change our whole lifestyle, because my intentions were to do more traveling and a few other things and, ah, but, because of that we're kind of, have to change a lot of our plans, we don't travel as much, but we do go to San Diego, we have a home over there, and we spend most of the summer over there. We try to get over there every month when we can for a few days. And we like it, we like it over there. WABNIK: When your children were growing up, did you, in your home, keep many of the traditions that are part of... KRUGLICK: I think we did. When Hanukkah came we hung blue and white lights I think. I've got to remember all these things. Because I was Bar Mitzvahed when I was 13 and went to Hebrew School, went to Sunday School, and all that, but ah, but I think my wife tried to do that more than I did. She died in 1971 when my son was 16 and my twin daughters were 13, but ah, I think they had a Jewish upbringing. Ah, and ah, you know, are the better for it. I don't, you know, although my present wife is not Jewish, she respects the Jewish holidays, Jewish traditions and we have a good relationship and get along fine. She happens to be a very quality person, a very fine lady. So, ah, I think they had a basically Jewish upbringing. I know my son, he has, I have another grandson, my son, I have one grandson, blood-related, and he, although, ah, his mother and father are divorced he goes to Sunday School and I'm sure he'll be Bar Mitzvahed. He's just nine, and ah, and I think, I think he'll be Bar Mitzvahed, nothing is guaranteed, you know. But I know, he does go to Sunday School. His mother became Jewish, although she wasn't, so, we assume that he's Jewish, at least I do. But, you know, in this world today we must be realistic and practical about, to adjust to changes in our lifestyle and have things that happen around us, sometimes we can't control them. WABNIK: Have you seen a lot of these changes and I'm speaking now more in the sense of the religious community since you have been a part of it, have you seen a lot of the changes in terms of opening up more as the population grew, in the State of Arizona? KRUGLICK: Well, about Jewish people becoming more involved in the community? WABNIK: Um, hum. KRUGLICK: Well, I think you see Jewish people in the community. We have the President of the State Senate is Jewish. one of the chief lobbyists from Arizona Public Service and PR guys is Jewish. Ah, ah, so, Jewish, there are Jewish people involved. I just think that it would, it would, I don't see as much of it as, as, and maybe I'm wrong, I don't know, I know there are a lot of Jewish people involved. But, ah, I think, that the more involvement, and I think there needs to be more of it, I think it's just better overall. But, oh yeah, Jewish people are involved in every area. I'd just like to see more of them involved, you know, as the community grows, it's there. I think ah, as we see it grow the younger people get involved ah, and become a part of the community and I think it's fine. WABNIK: Have you found that as the Jewish community, particularly here in Phoenix has grown, that more and more of the members of the community have turned to you to ask you questions, about your involvement and perhaps why you have not been more involved with the community? I know you have explained it to me most wonderfully. KRUGLICK: You mean have Jewish people asked me? WABNIK: Um, hum. KRUGLICK No, Jewish people have asked me why I'm involved politically? WABNIK: Um, hum. KRUGLICK: No, because, rather than more Jewish organizations? No, nobody has ever asked me that. Ah, I think that's a good question for somebody to pose because, because ah, you know, everybody does what they think they want to do and ah, you can't, I don't think you can make people do things. I think we also work in cycles, you know. I may, for example, get more involved in the Jewish community up come when I'm no longer Chairman of the Party, I'm not saying I will, I say I may. Ah, I might not, probably no more than I have been, because I've, there are things that come along that they appeal to me and I feel I want to get involved. And, ah, I think it's important to be involved in the overall community. Ah, because I believe that the Jewish people themselves get involved in Jewish activities and so there's no shortage of people doing that. Ah, so I don't, you know, I don't worry about that myself, as far as I'm concerned. But, I'm not, not anti-Jewish community, at all, I just, you know, you can't do everything, and ah, I do some, what I can, I give to the UJA, I give to the Weizmann Institute in Israel, I belong to Temple, ah, but I'm not a broad advocate of all of the Jewish activities that go on. There are so many things that go on that I'm really not aware of, but I don't really know about, ah, because there is only so much you can do. And ah, in fact, politics, and now the last four years and the next two being Chairman, and when I was Finance Chairman for twelve years, really, I got in and gave so much time, too much time, that I didn't have time perhaps for other things. But, I guess I did it because it was something I was committed to and when I make a commitment I think you, you do the best job you can. You don't take something and then just take it to have a title, to look good on your resume, I've never believed that. I've, I've gotten involved with some organizations and maybe they've asked me to do something and I've thought abut it and I've called and said, "Look, I can't do you justice, so I think, you know, I want you to release me from my commitment because it's not fair to you and it's not fair to me." But, we tend to get carried away, you know, ah, and I don't do that. I don't do things to, for the honor or the glory of it but I do it because it's something I feel or believe in and I also don't do things to try to have everybody love me. I believe you should do things based on your own beliefs and feelings and, and, ah, I know that I've probably have ah, ah, done some things that people didn't take to but it was the way I've believed and thought and felt. You have to have a responsibility to be willing to stand up and say what you think and believe. And too many people won't do that because they don't want to get anybody mad at them, they want everybody to love them. End of Side One, Tape one Side Two of Tape One blank Tape Two, Side One: WABNIK: Before you had mentioned that you couldn't think of too many elected officials off hand who were Jewish, and it strikes me that vou are one of the elected officials in the state who is Jewish. What is your reaction to that? Do you see yourself as a pioneer? And how many other Jewish State Party Chairmen have there been that you know of? KRUGLICK: Well, ah (telephone rings, he answers with expletive. Tape continues after call), um... WABNIK: ... in terms of being an elected official? KRUGLICK: Yeah, well, you know, ah, I'm not the first State Chairman in Arizona that's a Jewish Chairman. Harry Rosenzweig, I believe, was the first State chairman, but I'm the second one. We do have some other elected officials and there have been some other Jewish people who have been State Chairmen of other parties, but I don't know anything about the Democrats. I know a few in the Republican party, but I can't give you any specific figures. And, ah, we do have some, like I said, Bob Usdane is Jewish, George Weisz of District 18 served one term in the State House recently, ah... WABNIK: Cindy Reznick. KRUGLICK: Yeah, well she's a Democrat, and I don't think of her, but I'm sure she's Jewish (laughter by WABNIK), but she's from Tucson, and she's been in the Legislature for about three terms or something, I'm not sure. And I'm sure there are some others, but I can't think of who they are--Barry Goldwater is half Jewish, as we know and he recognizes, accepts that, but, I, I think that people basically, ah, elect people based on their ability and basically most people don't look at whether a person is Jewish or Italian or Moslem or Catholic, today. I think at one time it may have been a consideration in some areas. But the fact that we elect Blacks in a lot of areas, you know, that will tell you that people are very open minded, Hispanics and others, so that I think that barrier has been mostly overcome. Although there are some people that just will not support somebody of the religious faith that they did not like, we're aware of that, we know about it. And it's something you just have to accept and live with and not make an issue of. And I believe that's what we do and that's what I've always do: Too change the subject a bit you mentioned before that your sister lives right nearby. Are there many of your relatives living here in the State of Arizona?:Ah, I have some, not many. My, I have two sisters, one, both of them used to live here. one moved to San Diego about three years ago. Of my family I still have one living here. I have an uncle living here, ah, and ah, I have some cousins living here, not too many and my children all live in Arizona, my three children, and, ah, grandchildren. And that's pretty much the extent of my family that lives here. Originally we, I guess we all came from Chicago and they migrated here. Most of them came here after the war, the second World War, ah, and so we do have family but there are not as many as there used to be. WABNIK Do you see your children, and possibly your grandchildren following in your footsteps, in terms of the involvement in the community? KRUGLICK: Ah, my children are not particularly active in community activities, ah, as an individual choice. But what my grandchildren will do you can't tell. Ah, but I really don't see my children getting too involved in politics. They haven't indicated any of that interest and, ah, most people don't find politics really interesting and exciting. Because a lot of it is meetings, some people consider it dull. Politics is not dull but there's a lot of things that are dull in connection with politics. The work that's done, that the people have to do, you know, in the masses, the knocking on doors, delivering literature, mailings, ah, that's dull. The excitement is when it's election time when a candidate comes up to run for office and the election takes place. But most people consider those types of things dull, that's why a lot of people won't become a Precinct Committeeman, because it's a matter of working in the districts, in the precincts, knocking on doors, finding out if people are interested, do they vote, getting petitions signed, delivering literature, getting people to go vote on election day and most people ought to realize how much work that takes. And these are all volunteers. And everybody takes these people for granted unfortunately. Ah, and ah, they don't thank them. One thing I'll try to do is make sure we thank everybody that's a volunteer and make them understand that whatever contribution they are making, how large or small, that it's appreciated. You can't imagine how much people appreciate any little pat on the head or back is appreciated because they do a lot of work and don't get a lot of thanks from a lot of people. So I've always made a point of recognition of contributions, giving awards. I set up a special recognition banquet to make people aware that we do care about the volunteer. We want them to know that they're appreciated. And it goes a long way to letting people feel welcome for the hard work they give and do. And, ah, so, ah, it's just part of the ongoing system that you have to work with and overcome and that's about what we try to do. WABNIK: One more question [no problem) and then I think we can kind of let this rest for a while [no problem] and that is, do you ever see yourself actively going into the Jewish community to form a Jewish Republican group since you mentioned there were so many other groups that have been formed? Kruglick: Ah, I don't know that I would go ahead and do that, I might get some people to do that and there's been talk about doing it. But I'm not aware of any particular, now they've formed a Jewish group, Jewish Republican Committee for Bush in the state last year, Bush for President Committee, things like that. But as far as an active Republican Jewish Committee, I'm not aware of a specific one. But it's something that there ought to be one. And ah, there's been talk but, the possibility, you know, we could do that, yes. But, ah... WABNIK: Would you see yourself as spearheading that, or would you remain neutral in your role... KRUGLICK: No, it's not a question of being neutral. I could get, would get other people involved and therefore I would try to see about getting other people involved just like we try to get Blacks involved with the Black Republican Committee, the Hispanic Republican Committee, so we do try to get people involved. But they would provide the personnel and the people to get involved and form the organization, and I can see that happening, but how soon I don't know. And it's something I'd probably would talk to some of the Jewish people about, ah, but ah, ah, there are a couple of committees out there-- they're not Republican, there is a Black/Jewish Committee, a Hispanic/Jewish Committee out there, you know, but they work in the general community, it's not a political organization. So, it's kind of interesting, but certainly I'd like to see a Republican Jewish Committee, and I, now that you mention it, I'm going to talk to a couple of people about it. WABNIK: Well now that I've mentioned that, I really want to thank you for letting us do this interview. And if you have anything else that you would like to add I would really appreciate it... KRUGLICK: What area? WABNIK: In any area that you wish. KRUGLICK: No, I just, I've always believed that people have a responsibility to their community and their country. And I, I really say this sincerely, I don't say it just to make conversation. I think that the people are fortunate enough in this country to, to have some successes, to have been able to have benefitted financially, and, ah, family-wise, and all these different things, I think they have a responsibility to put something back into their community and country. Each one has to decide what their contribution will be and where, but if people are going to keep things from happening, like Hitler, and, ah, other things that come along, then I think that people have to be involved, not sit back and let others do it, but become an active player in the overall picture, ah, because, if you don't participate as an active player, then somebody else is going to assume your role and you have no right to be critical, ah, or speak out because you forfeited that right. And so I recommend to everybody to get involved. People get involved in different ways: some give of their time; others give of their time and their money. And some just give of their money because they don't have the time. But whatever, you know, people need to get involved and, ah, help make the process work, and, ah, and I believe strongly in the freedom that we have and what we've been able to accomplish and do in this country and because of that, ah, we've been able to be a happy, healthy country overall and be the leading nation in the world and, ah, for that to continue and for all of us to have the freedom that we've enjoyed and want to see our children and grandchildren and others enjoy, I think we need to stay involved and be part of the system. I've always said if you don't like something that's being done, get involved and do something about it. Also I think it was Thomas Jefferson who said if we don't hang together, we'll hang separately. [Laughter] WABNIK: On that note we'll stop this recording. Thank you. KRUGLICK: I think it was Thomas Jefferson ... [End of Tape] [Side two of Tape two blank] [end of transcript]