..inte: Janet Kotzen Pransky ..intr: Evanne Kofman ..da: 1998 ..cp: 1998.107.004 Janet Kotzen and her father, Sam, beside his cigar store, Phoenix, ca. 1946-47. ..ca: ..ftxt: An Interview with Janet Kotzen Pransky November 4, 1998 Interviewer: Eve Hubschman Transcriptionist: Carol Ruttan Log for Janet Kotzen Pransky Interview Page 1 Born in Phoenix 1936 Parents from Illinois Samuel Kotzen Family in dry goods/grocery business Mildred Pearl Sachs 2 Parents established Sam's Cigar Store Lulubelle's Boston Store 2 Father's family from Latvia 3 Grandfather killed when father was 11 Jacob Growing up in Phoenix 4 Holiday observance; belonged to Beth Israel Rabbi Krohn 5 Social life in high school 6 Parents active in Jewish organizations 7- 8 Mother ran restaurant 8-10 Anti-Semitism 10 Jews interaction with non-Jews Ronnie Silverman 11 Problems with neighbors during war 12-13 Sold cigar store early 50's Morris Dombrowsky 13-14 High school friends Faye Vida (Siegel) Carla Langert Myra Scult 14 AZA - BBG conventions 15 Growth of Phoenix 1936-1954 16 Moved to California 17 Jewish holidays 19 People parents knew Wesley Bolin Green Gables restaurant Bob Gosnell Bob Goldwater 20 Mom's cousin Jack Benny Camelback Inn 21 Parents' friends Harry Rosenzweig Harry Rabinowitz Janet Kotzen Pransky Interview HUBSCHMAN: Today is November 4, 1998 and we are at the Arizona Jewish Historical Society with Janet Kotzen Pransky. This is Eve Hubschman. I'll ask some questions. First of all, will you tell me your full name. PRANSKY: Janet Esther Kotzen Pransky is my full name. HUBSCHMAN: Where were you born and when? PRANSKY: I was born here in Phoenix, March 26, 1936, at the old St. Joseph's Hospital. HUBSCHMAN: Tell me about how your family happened to be in Arizona and why and when. Tell me the names of your parents first. PRANSKY: My dad's name was Samuel Kotzen. My mother's maiden name was Mildred Pearl Sachs, S-a-c-h-s. My mother's parents, with my mother and Uncle Milton, came to Arizona in 1919 because my grandmother was ill. They left Chicago - or Waukegan, actually - in 1917 and went to Montana and they were in Montana for two years and then came to Arizona. The climate in Montana wasn't good for my grandmother. They came to Jerome - I'm not too sure how long they were in Jerome, but not for very long because my grandmother wasn't doing well in Jerome, either, so they came down to Phoenix. But I'm not too sure of the exact date they got to Phoenix. My dad came out somewhere in the mid to late 20's with his brother who had TB and then the rest of his family followed a few years after that. HUBSCHMAN: What were the people in your mother's family and father's family doing during all this peregrinations? PRANSKY: I'm not too sure what you mean by what were they doing. HUBSCHMAN: How did they earn their living? PRANSKY: In my mother's family, my grandpa always had some kind of dry goods or grocery store - sometimes it was both. Actually, when they went to Montana - they went there because we had a cousin there that had a haberdashery store that he worked in. When he came down here he worked in a - I guess he established his own, mostly groceries, I guess. Also, we had another cousin who was already here who had a store in Scottsdale where Lulubelle's is now. They had a dry goods, groceries, all sorts of things. It was called the Boston Store, but it had nothing to do with the Boston Store that was in Phoenix. So, that's the reason they came down to Phoenix. My grandmother had a brother who was here already. HUBSCHMAN: This is your grandmother on your mother's side? PRANSKY: My mother's side. HUBSCHMAN: And on your father's side? PRANSKY: My father's side - I don't know why they chose Phoenix particularly, other than the fact his brother needed a dry climate. Then I don't know how he earned his living in the beginning, but he established Sam's Cigar Store fairly early on, I think. That's where they remained until I was in high school and then they sold it and moved out to Sunnyslope. They had a liquor store in Sunnyslope. HUBSCHMAN: Your parents met and married here? PRANSKY: Yes, they did. HUBSCHMAN: What language was spoken by your grandparents? PRANSKY: Mostly English. I have very little recollections of Yiddish. HUBSCHMAN: How did they get to America in the first place? PRANSKY: My parents were both born here in America. My dad in Baltimore and my mother in Waukegan, Illinois. My grandparents came over - I really know very little about how they got here, other than coming on the boat, of course. I still have my grandmother's candlesticks - she didn't bring very much over, but she brought the candlesticks, like, I guess a lot of families. I, unfortunately, know very little about both sides. I know that on my father's side, my father always told me he was a Litvak, but he was from Latvia, not Lithuania. Where my father's mother came from, I don't know, but that's where his father came from. HUBSCHMAN: Had they ever settled elsewhere, or did they come directly out to Arizona? PRANSKY: My grandparents? HUBSCHMAN: Yes. PRANSKY: As I say, my father was born in Baltimore. Then they moved to Pennsylvania. My grandfather had one of these carts that he walked around and sold stuff off of. My father used to tell me a long time ago about riding on the cart with his father, selling things. HUBSCHMAN: What language did they speak? PRANSKY: That I don't know. My father spoke fluent Yiddish, so it must have been Yiddish in his home. My grandfather - my father's father - eventually they established a store someplace in Pennsylvania. Someone came in to rob the store and killed my grandfather. My father was 11 years old at the time so I never knew my grandfather. His name was Jacob - that's who I'm named after. Then, after that, I don't really know - I guess my grandmother kept the store until they all came out to Arizona. HUBSCHMAN: Were these Orthodox or observant people on both sides? PRANSKY: My father's - I know she kept kosher - my grandmother on my father's side. She had a kosher home. That's about as much as I know. I don't know about her going to temple or anything of that sort. On my mother's side, there was not a kosher home. I guess because they traveled around the country, they kind of lost that. HUBSCHMAN: Now, let's go back to when you were born and how you lived. Where was your home here? PRANSKY: It was 302 West Lewis, which was on the corner of 3rd Avenue and Lewis. We moved into that house when I was six months old. My parents sold that house in either 1967 or '68 when they moved to California where I lived. I was an only child and my children were their only grandchildren and it was time for them to retire. So, they finally sold that home. They were in that house a little over 30 years. That house was the hub of my life, of course. I always had a lot of friends coming over. HUBSCHMAN: Where did you go to school? PRANSKY: I went to Kenilworth School from kindergarten through the eighth grade and I went to West Phoenix High School for the four years of high school. HUBSCHMAN: After high school did you go to work? PRANSKY: No, I went to the University of Arizona for two years. Then I left and I went to Chicago to be with my mother's family. I went to the Chicago Musical College of Roosevelt University for four years. HUBSCHMAN: You are a musician? PRANSKY: I used to play the piano. I wouldn't call myself a real musician. HUBSCHMAN: After your sojourn in Chicago, you came back? PRANSKY: I came back here for a year and I moved to California and met my then-husband. I'm divorced now. I got married in '62. And I still live there. HUBSCHMAN: Now, going back to your family on both sides, did they observe the holidays and in what way did they observe the holidays? PRANSKY: When I was growing up, while my father's mother was still alive, we had the major holidays in her home. It was usually a huge gathering - both my mother's and my father's family went to her home. I remember Passover being hours and hours long. It just went on and on forever. Of course, I was a child at the time, so I suppose anything would have gone on forever. Once my grandmother died, my mother had it in her home. My grandparents on my mother's side died when I was very young. I was five when my grandmother died and seven when my grandfather died, so I didn't have a lot of time with them. I still remember them. My grandfather, especially, I remember vividly. That's why most everything was at my grandmother's house on my father's side. HUBSCHMAN: Did you or your family belong to any synagogue? PRANSKY: Yes. Most of the time we belonged to Beth Israel. That's where I was confirmed. However, somewhere in the middle there my parents got unhappy with the rabbi, I think. HUBSCHMAN: Do you remember which rabbi? PRANSKY: Krohn. I went for a year to the Orthodox religious school and I finally said to my parents, "I'm not doing that again." Then, I went for a year to Beth El and they finally decided that that was enough and I went back to Beth Israel, and I was confirmed there. HUBSCHMAN: Were your parents steady members, or did they just go occasionally? PRANSKY: They didn't go to Friday night services. In the beginning, I remember going to High Holiday services quite a bit, but that even fell away as time went on. HUBSCHMAN: Now, you're living in California. PRANSKY: Right. HUBSCHMAN: And how about your own children? PRANSKY: Well, I have one child now. She is about to marry a non-Jewish boy. She feels Jewish but it's not terribly important to her. I tried. HUBSCHMAN: Was your husband Jewish? PRANSKY: Yes. HUBSCHMAN: You have one child? PRANSKY: Now. Yes. I had another child that I lost. HUBSCHMAN: I'm sorry. Now, socially, was your circle primarily among Jews, your neighbors? PRANSKY: Mine personally? HUBSCHMAN: Yes. Your family's. PRANSKY: When I got to high school I decided that I wanted a real social life, so I went to the table at lunch where all the Jewish kids were sitting and I sat down, and from then on I had a social life. And it became very important to me. I was a member of BBG. HUBSCHMAN: What's BBG? PRANSKY: B'nai Brith Girls. My high school boyfriend was in AZA, although he went to a different high school then I did. We got together through AZA and BBG. That's what my social life was. My parents - most of their social life - they worked all the time. It got to be where they had a very minimal social life. I have pictures of my mother when she was in her late teens. It was also her age-group of Jewish families. HUBSCHMAN: Most of your social life was with Jewish families. PRANSKY: Yes. HUBSCHMAN: What about other organizations. You say you were with the BBG and AZA. Were your parents active in any community - PRANSKY: They started out active, but as time went on - my father was one of the founding members of the Hebrew Men's Club. HUBSCHMAN: Hebrew Men's Club at Beth Israel? PRANSKY: I don't think it was a temple thing. It was just a Jewish community type thing. My mother, I guess, was a part of the Junior Council of Jewish Women. As time went on and they began working more and more and more, most of that fell away. HUBSCHMAN: What do you remember about the early days about how Phoenix looked and how it's changed? PRANSKY: It's really strange for me coming back - there was a period of 30 years or so that I didn't even come to Phoenix and I came back and it's so different. HUBSCHMAN: Can you describe a little bit of what it was like then? PRANSKY: When we moved into 302 West Lewis, it was in 1936. 1 was only six months old then. Even so, I remember when I was about two or three years old, the street - they're taking a picture of the house right now, because I need it for the family that lives there now because they want it - but it was dirt roads. HUBSCHMAN: Where is Lewis Street? PRANSKY: Lewis is between Thomas and McDowell. It was on 3d Avenue. At the end of Lewis on Central was a dairy farm. Two blocks north of Lewis was alfalfa fields. I got lost in the alfalfa fields - they had the police looking and everything. So, that was the end of Phoenix. HUBSCHMAN: And that was in 1936? PRANSKY: Yes. My dad said to me one time that when they went to buy the house, my mother's only complaint was, "But, Sam, it's so far out." We laugh over that now. HUBSCHMAN: At that time where was the center of town? PRANSKY: Downtown. HUBSCHMAN: Downtown where it is now? PRANSKY: Right. The center of town was downtown. HUBSCHMAN: Around what street? PRANSKY: Well, I'm really not too sure. My dad's store was 127 North 1st Avenue, which is not there anymore. There was an alley and around the comer was the Adams Hotel. HUBSCHMAN: So it was near Adams Street? PRANSKY: Yes. HUBSCHMAN: It was a cigar store? PRANSKY: Well, it was called Sam's Cigar Store, but in the front of the store as you walk in, on the left was a liquor store, tobacco, pipes, that sort of thing. On the right of the store was a huge area where there were magazines and newspapers from all over the world. In the back was the first kosher style restaurant in the state of Arizona. HUBSCHMAN: That's interesting. Who ran the restaurant? PRANSKY: My mother. HUBSCHMAN: She cooked? PRANSKY: No, she didn't cook. We had a cook. But she was the one that did the books and did the hiring and firing. My dad ran the liquor store and magazines and all that sort of stuff. HUBSCHMAN: How large a place was the restaurant? Ten tables, fifteen tables? PRANSKY: There was a counter with about 15 seats and then there were around ten booths, twelve booths, something like that. HUBSCHMAN: And people would have to go through the cigar store to get to the restaurant? PRANSKY: Right. At lunchtime the line was all the way out and down the street. HUBSCHMAN: How did you advertise a kosher restaurant? PRANSKY: Kosher-style, not kosher, but kosher-style. I don't think they did any advertising in the newspapers or anything. But, you'll see in the picture, under Sam's Cigar Store it says kosher-style restaurant. HUBSCHMAN: How many people did they have working for them? PRANSKY: They had a cook, a dishwasher, and I think two or three waitresses. Half the time a waitress wouldn't show up and my mother was a waitress. When the dishwasher didn't show up, my mother washed dishes. She worked really hard. HUBSCHMAN: You, as a child, were you expected to do something there? PRANSKY: No. HUBSCHMAN: Were you expected to take part anywhere in the store? PRANSKY: No. Not in that store. Later, when they had the liquor store and I was older, at the holidays, I would go in and help sell. The liquor store was in Sunnyslope. But, they did not have me do anything in the store. HUBSCHMAN: Did they have full-time help at home? PRANSKY: When I was very young, they did have a live-in maid, but when I was about eleven they stopped that. They had a housekeeper that came in periodically, I guess. HUBSCHMAN: What were their relations with the general community, the community at large? PRANSKY: I don't know exactly what you mean. HUBSCHMAN: For example, did you experience any hostility or any anti-Semitism? PRANSKY: Oh, yes. HUBSCHMAN: You did? Where? PRANSKY: At school. HUB HUBSCHMAN: Can you remember some of the incidents? PRANSKY: Yes. Once I remember being spit on. Once a girl came up to me and she found out I was Jewish and she held her nose and walked away. The Mormons were constantly trying to convert me. That's a mission of theirs, I guess, is to convert Jews. I had a lot of that. I was always the little Jewish girl. I was always last picked for everything. Of course, part of it in sports was because I was not very athletic and nobody wanted me on a team for that either. I had a little hard time. My mother tried to get into Junior League and they would not take her. My dad was not accepted into the Arizona Club. Although there were a few Jews who - I know Dean Davidson got into it. HUBSCHMAN: So there was a general atmosphere of anti-Semitism? PRANSKY: Well, in specific instances. There was no trouble in the store or anything of that sort. HUBSCHMAN: How about in the newspapers? PRANSKY: I probably didn't read a newspaper at that time. HUBSCHMAN: Do you remember the specific instance of somebody spitting on you? PRANSKY: I don't remember why anymore. But I was spit on. The girl that held her nose and walked away - I don't remember why we got on the subject of religion but when she found out I was Jewish she held her nose and turned around and walked away. HUBSCHMAN: Do you remember how your parents handled that if you came home and told them? PRANSKY: I don't remember that. HUBSCHMAN: How did you handle it? PRANSKY: I don't think I did. I just stood there. Probably when I was spit on, I think I cried. HUBSCHMAN: How about your teachers? Did they show a similar negative attitude? PRANSKY: No. I remember one time when we had a project of weather and we were supposed to have a program for parents. We were given poems to read about weather. They gave me this little - I don't even remember what it was - it was like four or five words and that's all. I didn't understand it and I took it to my teacher and said, "I don't understand this." She took it and said, "I don't either. Here, read this." She gave me Shelley's poem called Clouds - the first stanza of it, which was beautiful. So, she rectified that situation. Whereas, some of the kids had given me some dumb thing to say. So, that's one of the things that I remember from school. HUBSCHMAN: So, generally, in school the teachers did not discriminate against you? PRANSKY: I didn't feel that. I don't remember that. HUBSCHMAN: Not in high school, either? PRANSKY: No, definitely not in high school. HUBSCHMAN: Now, in high school was there more interaction between the Jewish and non-Jewish? PRANSKY: I felt there was not a lot of interaction. There were a few people that were able to do it because of their personalities, I guess, like Ronnie Silverman. HUBSCHMAN: What about Ronnie Silverman? PRANSKY: He was a senior, I think, when I was a freshman. He just had this kind of a personality that attracted people. HUBSCHMAN: So, he had interaction? PRANSKY: Yes, I think he had quite a lot. I guess there were others, too. I didn't very much. I was a very quiet kid. HUBSCHMAN: Do you think that kind of an atmosphere was material in turning you, perhaps, a little inside yourself'? PRANSKY: I don't know. I have no idea. I've always been a very serious person, and I don't know where that comes from. HUBSCHMAN: Do you think that it would have had - PRANSKY: I have no idea. I know that once I decided that I wanted to run around with the Jewish kids, then I had a good time. I was not having a good time before, because I was not making friends. HUBSCHMAN: Was there any question about the self-description of the self- identification of your parents as Jews? I think, for example, there have been places and people who just denied it. PRANSKY: My parents never denied it. HUBSCHMAN: What was Phoenix like during World War II? You were born in '36? PRANSKY: Right. HUBSCHMAN: Now, by '36 there was a lot of anti-Semitic propaganda in the States. A lot. Then there was the war. How much did you know about the war? PRANSKY: I didn't know a whole lot. The people next door were of German descent and we had a lot of trouble with them during the war. HUBSCHMAN: In what way? PRANSKY: They were very anti-Semitic during the war. The father was in the Navy. A few years later when he came home he was very upset over what was going on between the two families and, I guess, he really read the riot act to his family. HUBSCHMAN: What was going on between the two families? PRANSKY: If I can recall correctly, there was a hedge between the two houses and, supposedly, there was equal ownership of this hedge and suddenly they owned the hedge. Silly things like that. There was a girl that lived next door that was exactly my age and she wasn't playing with me anymore. From what I remember it was not an easy time. As I say, as soon as the father came home he was really upset with the fact that this was going on and he read the riot act to his family. HUBSCHMAN: Did you have any relatives - cousins or uncles - who were in World War II? PRANSKY: Yes, my mother's brother, my Uncle Milton, was in the Navy. HUBSCHMAN: He lived here in Phoenix? PRANSKY: Yes. Once he got in the Navy he was stationed in La Jolla. He had an engineering degree, I believe, from University of Chicago. He became a sonar expert and he never got sent overseas because they wanted his expertise. HUBSCHMAN: Was there any recognition of his - PRANSKY: No, not really. There's nothing here in Phoenix. No. I do know one thing, though. Because he was in the Navy - there was no building during the second world war - they didn't allow any building. We needed another room on our house and they built another room on our house because my uncle was in the Navy. My parents said that he would come to stay with them periodically. He didn't have a house in Phoenix and they needed the room for him to stay in, so they built another room on our house. HUBSCHMAN: So you profited from - PRANSKY: Well, it was kind of nice, although they did a lousy job. It was a World War II job. But, anyway, eventually, after the war was over and Uncle Milton got his own place, it became my bedroom. HUBSCHMAN: Uncle Milton came back to live in Phoenix again? PRANSKY: Only shortly, then he and his wife - well, I shouldn't say shortly, because they adopted a son and they were here for quite awhile, now that I think about it, because he was bar mitzvahed here and he's ten years younger than me. So, they were here for awhile. Then they moved to San Diego. They really liked the San Diego area, so they moved there. HUBSCHMAN: How did the store prosper, the cigar store? When they gave it up, did they give it up because it was not functioning or not earning enough money? PRANSKY: No, they gave it up because my mother couldn't stand it anymore, I guess, literally. HUBSCHMAN: So, she was running all that time, from sometime in the 30's - PRANSKY: From '36 or '37 - she went to work about six or eight months after I was born. HUBSCHMAN: In the store? PRANSKY: In the store, yes. HUBSCHMAN: So, the store was established right away. PRANSKY: Oh, yes. HUBSCHMAN: Including the restaurant? PRANSKY: I don't know when the restaurant came to be. I really don't. HUBSCHMAN: When did they give it up? PRANSKY: I was in high school. I was in high school from '50 to '54, so I would say they probably gave it up in around '53, '52 or '53. HUBSCHMAN: That was quite a long time. Then they gave it up - PRANSKY: They sold it to their chef, so it was still called Sam's Cigar Store. HUBSCHMAN: But the restaurant was still functioning? PRANSKY: Oh, yes. HUBSCHMAN: Was the chef also a Jew? PRANSKY: Yes. He stuffed his own kishkey. I used to watch him stuff kishkey with the intestines lined up on the table. He made great matzaballs. He was a very good cook. HUBSCHMAN: Do you know anything about his family? PRANSKY: No, I don't know anything about him. HUBSCHMAN: You don't know anything about him or where he came from? PRANSKY: No. I know his name was Morris Dombrowsky. That was his name, but that's all I know. HUBSCHMAN: Where he learned to cook or anything? PRANSKY: I have no idea. I know my parents imported corned beef and pastrami, I think, from Chicago. HUBSCHMAN: Did they have kosher food in the restaurant? PRANSKY: It was kosher style, it wasn't really kosher. HUBSCHMAN: Did they have to bring in kosher meat? PRANSKY: Well, nobody made corned beef and pastrami here in Phoenix at that time, so they had to bring that in. HUBSCHMAN: But, you don't know whether that was kosher or not? PRANSKY: No, I don't know what it was. HUBSCHMAN: But, you said that your mother did not keep a kosher house. PRANSKY: No, she did not. HUBSCHMAN: What other stories do you remember? The story about the kishkey is kind of cute. Do you have any other recollections that you could share? PRANSKY: Someone would have to prod me. It's hard to think. HUBSCHMAN: Who was your best friend? PRANSKY: Louise. HUBSCHMAN: From high school? PRANSKY: Yes. I had another friend, Faye Vida, who still lives here. HUBSCHMAN: Is her name still Faye Vita? PRANSKY: It's Faye Vita now, it was Siegel before. Also, when I was growing up, in high school, there were three of us that ran around together. It was myself, Carla Langert and Myra Scult. We were the three. We ran around together. We triple dated everywhere. Our boyfriends were friends. Then, Louise was separate from these three. That was broken up. Myra went away to school, her parents sent her away to someplace - I think Stephens College or something like that. Carla I still see in California. She lives in California and so do 1. Myra does too, but I don't see her. I don't know what else. We had a huge crowd. AZA and BBG was - HUBSCHMAN: AZA was Anti-Defamation League? PRANSKY: No. Alaf Zadik Alaf It's a B'nai B'rith - HUBSCHMAN: Say that again. PRANSKY: Alaf Zadik Alaf, I think. Zadik or Zedik. HUBSCHMAN: That was also a B'nai B'rith - PRANSKY: Yes, that was the boy's group. They're still going. They still have that. When I was here there were two chapters of AZA and two chapters of BBG. Now, there's I don't know how many. Twice a year we had conventions with the Tucson chapters, the mountain region. Mountain region now includes Colorado and a whole bunch of others. We used to go down to Tucson once a year and the Tucson chapters came up here once a year. We would stay in their homes and they would stay in our homes. I still have my close friend who stayed in my home and I stayed in her home. She lives in San Diego. HUBSCHMAN: How did you get around? Did your family have a car? PRANSKY: There were times when they had two cars and when I was 16 and able to drive they would let me have a car periodically. My friends would periodically get - HUBSCHMAN: So, most of your friends had cars? PRANSKY: They didn't have their own cars. It was their parents' cars that they would be allowed to drive, Most of my friends did not have their own cars. HUBSCHMAN: The parents of your friends, for the most part, had other businesses? PRANSKY: Yes. HUBSCHMAN: So, for example, these three friends. What did their father's do? PRANSKY: Carla's father, with his brother, had a jewelry store, if I recall correctly. HUBSCHMAN: What was their last name? PRANSKY: Langert. HUBSCHMAN: There still is a Langert - PRANSKY: Myra's father had a box factory, or something like that. HUBSCHMAN: What was her last name? PRANSKY: Scult. HUBSCHMAN: How do you spell that? PRANSKY: S-c-u-1-t. HUBSCHMAN: I don't know that, but I pass Langert almost every day. So there still is a jewelry store with that name on it. You said that it was a large group of young people. PRANSKY: Yes, but it came from all three high schools - Phoenix Union, North High and West High. So, we drew from all the schools. HUBSCHMAN: By the time that you were, let's say, in high school, or getting out of high school, how much had the city grown? You got out of high school in what year? PRANSKY: '54. HUBSCHMAN: So, between '36 and '54 - PRANSKY: It had grown a great deal. A lot of the men who came out to go to - I can't remember the names of the air fields and the army bases. HUBSCHMAN: Luke. PRANSKY: Luke, yes. They liked it out here, so they stayed. It grew a great deal right after the war. Lots and lots of people came. I left here in '54. 1 went to the University of Arizona for two years. Then, I went to Chicago to go to school for four years. I came back here and I was only here a year and then I left. HUBSCHMAN: Where did you meet your husband? PRANSKY: In California. After 1954 I was really basically gone. HUBSCHMAN: Your parents followed you to California? PRANSKY: Yes. But they didn't come until '67 or '68. HUBSCHMAN: But, first they sold the house on Lewis Street - PRANSKY: Yes, and then they moved over. HUBSCHMAN: They moved over to Sunnyslope, you said. PRANSKY: No, no. They sold the house in '67 or '68 and moved to California. They sold the store in '52 or '53, something like that, and moved the store out to Sunnyslope -just the liquor part only. HUBSCHMAN: So, by that time Sunnyslope had been built up. PRANSKY: Well, pretty much. They were on the corner of Dunlap and 7th Street. Then, the one street took off to Cave Creek. There was nothing out there - a few shacks. HUBSCHMAN: How about where their store was? There must have been houses around, if they had a liquor store. PRANSKY: Yes. People lived out there, but not much. The liquor store did very, very well for quite a while, and then they built some kind of a market across the street and took a great deal of the business. They were ready to sell it all and move anyway, because they wanted to be with me. HUBSCHMAN: Finally, they died in California. PRANSKY: My dad died Christmas Day of '74 and my mom died July 3, 1987. HUBSCHMAN: They're both buried in Jewish cemeteries? PRANSKY: No. They were both cremated. They wanted to be cremated, so I did it. HUBSCHMAN: So, you haven't really observed these ceremonies in your own home at all? PRANSKY: What do you mean, holidays? HUBSCHMAN: Holidays. PRANSKY: Oh, sure. Well, I used to when I was married. When I was married my house was the hub of everything, just like my mom's was after my grandma died and my mom had everything. HUBSCHMAN: When you say everything, what do you mean by that? PRANSKY: Well, Thanksgiving, Hanukkah, Passover. HUBSCHMAN: How about Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur? PRANSKY: We never really did a lot of that. HUBSCHMAN: Did you fast at all? PRANSKY: No. We never fasted, and my parents didn't fast. HUBSCHMAN: Did you stay out of school for Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur? PRANSKY: I think I stayed out for Yom Kippur, but I don't think I stayed out for Rosh Hashanah. I might have - it's hard to remember. Now, I go to temple a lot. HUBSCHMAN: Do you? What made you change? PRANSKY: One thing, my divorce, I guess. HUBSCHMAN: When were you divorced? PRANSKY: In 1984. HUBSCHMAN: So, that's 14 years ago. PRANSKY: Yes. So, I needed something, and I know belong to a Havarah - we're all very close. Also, I went through breast cancer. I had a rough time of it. I had two stem cell transplants at the City of Hope. I guess through all that I just felt I needed it. But, for Passover now I go to another family. I try to have one seder but it's very hard because I don't have very much family and all my friends go to their families. It's really quite difficult. HUBSCHMAN: And you have one child? PRANSKY: Yes. One daughter. HUBSCHMAN: And she's married? PRANSKY: Well, she's going to get married next October and he is not Jewish and he really doesn't care to participate in the Jewish ceremonies, so that will make it even harder, HUBSCHMAN: When you come back now to Phoenix, what kind of feeling do you have? PRANSKY: Well, it's like coming home. HUBSCHMAN: Is it still? PRANSKY: Oh, yes. If I had a really compelling reason I could easily move back here. I would have to have a compelling reason, because I do have a life in California and a job. HUBSCHMAN: What kind of work do you do? PRANSKY: I'm a paralegal. But, I do love coming back here. I love Phoenix. HUBSCHMAN: You still do - even though it's changed so much? PRANSKY: Oh, yes, even though it's changed. We drive out to her son's house way out there and that was all desert. HUBSCHMAN: Way out where is there? PRANSKY: Past Bell. Bell was a dirt road. HUBSCHMAN: Have you been out to Scottsdale? PRANSKY: Oh, yes. HUBSCHMAN: Do you come back periodically? PRANSKY: A couple times a year. HUBSCHMAN: So this is not your first - PRANSKY: Oh, no. But, Louise is the one that wanted me to do this. HUBSCHMAN: It's a very good idea. Is there anything else that you would want to say? Anything that I haven't asked about? PRANSKY: I don't know what else would be appropriate. HUBSCHMAN: Anything else you can think of in your girlhood that is an interesting story or is a memorable story. PRANSKY: Nothing that is out of the ordinary. I just remember proms and all that kind of stuff that's not really that interesting. HUBSCHMAN: Were you active in any other organization beyond the AZA? PRANSKY: BBG, no. HUBSCHMAN: At the time that you were here growing up, who was the mayor of the city, do you remember? PRANSKY: I don't remember that. HUBSCHMAN: Who was the governor? PRANSKY: I don't remember that. The only person I did know was Wesley Bolin who was the Secretary of State, because he knew my parents well from the store. I can't remember why. Bob Gosnell used to do dishes for my parents. That's how we knew them. That's why I had my Sweet 16 party at the - what's the name of that place? The restaurant with the knight in the white horse. Green Gables. HUBSCHMAN: Tell me about that. PRANSKY: We used to go to Green Gables and they would to come out on a white horse - HUBSCHMAN: Where was Green Gables? PRANSKY: 24h Street and Thomas. Southwest comer. HUBSCHMAN: Is it still there? PRANSKY: The building is there. It's not a restaurant anymore. It was like an old-fashioned - knights in the - like a castle. You'd drive in and someone would come up on a white horse to greet you. The knight in shining armor - in knight's clothes. That's where I had my Sweet 16 party, because we knew Bob Gosnell. When I went to Chicago, the first year I was there I roomed in a dorm and they wanted a recommendation from my home state, so my parents got Wesley Bolin to write on the State stationery. HUBSCHMAN: He was Secretary of State? PRANSKY: He was Secretary of State at the time. I can't remember why - I don't think he did dishes for my dad at the store, but there was some reason from the store that they knew him quite well. I remember we had a wedding at our house - a cousin of ours got married and Wesley Bolin married them, because he was a judge at the time. He might have eaten at the store, maybe been a regular at the store for years. HUBSCHMAN: I think that's a great story. I'm glad you mentioned it. Did you know the Goldwaters at all? PRANSKY: My mom went to school with Bob Goldwater. That's his brother, HUBSCHMAN: Did you know the family at all? PRANSKY: I didn't. My mom knew Bob Goldwater, that's all. My mom was a cousin of Jack Benny's. A brother and sister married a brother and sister, so both my grandparents, on my mother's side, were actually related to him - not one by marriage, but both were blood relatives of Jack Benny. They were his aunt and uncle. HUBSCHMAN: Did they keep in touch? PRANSKY: Yes, periodically. There was a time he came out here - he was sick - he had pneumonia and he came out here and stayed at the Biltmore. He went to the - HUBSCHMAN: Mountain Shadows? PRANSKY: No, that wasn't even built yet. Camelback Inn. But, the Camelback Inn was - HUBSCHMAN: Was not accepting Jews at that time. PRANSKY: Didn't accept Jews, but they accepted him. But, my grandfather had to go and tell him that, so they left and went to the Biltmore. And he stayed here for quite a long time. HUBSCHMAN: Did he make it clear why he was leaving? PRANSKY: I don't know, but my grandfather made it clear to him why he shouldn't be staying there. HUBSCHMAN: And your grandfather was his blood uncle. PRANSKY: Yes, and my grandmother was his blood aunt. HUBSCHMAN: But, you don't remember him at all - Jack Benny? PRANSKY: Oh, sure. HUBSCHMAN: Was he funny in life? PRANSKY: No, he was pretty serious. And he was not a skin flint. As a matter of fact, when I was growing up, up until the time I was ten years old, they sent me all of Joan's clothes. HUBSCHMAN: Joan? PRANSKY: Their daughter - Jack and Mary's daughter. I had a working ironing board when I was young. There are pictures of me in this pink outfit that was a coat with a collar, pink wool with a mink collar, with a hat with a big mink thing, and a muff and spats. That was all hers. I used a lot of her formal stuff at age nine or so for Halloween costumes. HUBSCHMAN: I think that's wonderful. These are very interesting stories PRANSKY: I don't know what else - maybe some of those pictures would - HUBSCHMAN: -- would spark some memories. PRANSKY: I can't find the pictures, but I know there's a set of pictures of my parents and me as a three-year-old and I know that Harry Rosenzweig is in the picture, and Harry Rabinowitz is in the picture. We're all out someplace horseback riding in the desert. HUBSCHMAN: Did you learn to horseback ride? PRANSKY: Sure. HUBSCHMAN: Were there horses all around everywhere? PRANSKY: No. This is at a particular place that people would go to to rent horses. HUBSCHMAN: How about in the city? PRANSKY: I don't remember that, no. HUBSCHMAN: In the city streets people didn't get around on horses? PRANSKY: No, it was cars. HUBSCHMAN: I guess that would be about it. PRANSKY: I can't remember anything else. HUBSCHMAN: It was a pleasure. I enjoyed it. I love to hear about all these things. I thank you very, very much. [end of transcript]