..inte: Eli Gorodezky ..intr: Evanne Kofman ..da: 1985 ..cp: 1998.107.013 Sam Kotzen behind counter in his cigar store, ca. 1945. ..ca: ..ftxt: An Interview with Eli Gorodezky February 7, 1985 Transcriptionist: Carol Ruttan Interviewer: Evanne Kofman Arizona Jewish Historical Society Log for Eli Gorodezky Interview Pages 1 Arrive in Phoenix January 21, 1919 with grandmother Mrs. Elke Spector Milton Gorodezky (brother) 1 Rock island - So. Pacific Railroad from Kansas City, Mo. 1 Arizona Eastern Railroad Maricopa, Arizona 1 Arrive in Phoenix at railroad tracks on Central Ave. Santa Fe Freight Depot 2 No vacancy at hotel Adams Hotel 2 Commercial Hotel later Luhrs Hotel Commercial hotel 2 Water tower 9th Street and Van Buren 3 Southeast corner Central and Jefferson (Later site of Luhrs Building) 3 Street cars (trolley cars) 4 Parents remained in Kansas city 4-5 Special school at classes for handicapped students School Admin. Bldg. 5 Auditorium of School Admin. Bldg. Used as early Temple Beth Israel services 5-6 His grandmother (Elke Spector) 6-8 Community (Jewish) service work by Jewish women In Phoenix Korricks (New York Store) 6 Meckler family - jewelry and pawn shop Meckler family Korrick Family Charles Korrick Abe Korrick Ike Diamond The Boston Store 8 High Holy days in Phoenix 8 Butcher shop Seikoms (?) 9 Parents visited in Phoenix August 1919 9 731 E. Van Buren - second rental location in Phoenix 9-10 Bought home 13th St. and Roosevelt; description of home Garfield School Mrs. Sadler 10 Cotton fields 11 Early High Holy services in private residence on E. Taylor 11 Building second floor: Odd Fellows Lodge, subsequent High Holy Days services Rosenzweigs Donofrios Confectionary 12 Early friends: Ruth Edelman 12 First confirmation class Beatrice miller 12 Temple Beth Israel on Culver St. Milton Cooper 13 Picnics (Beth Israel) Echo Canyon Riverside Park Silverstone family Mary Silvertone Abe Silverstone 15 Decision to go into law influenced by his handicap. 15-16 Spastic cerebral palsy involved his ligaments 16 Had taken printing in high school 17 At University of Ariz. He also took journalism 17 First job with Arizona Republic as reporter; "Dailey Republican" "Daily Republican" (circa 1928-29) (Az. Republic) 18 News editor of the Wildcat (U of A paper) Az. Wildcat 18 University Press Club 19 As a reporter for Wildcat he wrote story on first person to matriculate as student at U of A 20 His parents didn't move to Phoenix until 1940's 20 Eli with Red Cross at Luke Field (already had law degree) 21 Admitted to bar in Arizona in 1933 21 Duties with Red Cross during war 22 Parents' business at 10th Ave. and Washington, across from library (grocery store for 2-3 years) 22 Grandmother Spector died in 1928 23 Beth Israel religious school Herman Lewkowitz 23 Carrie was religious school teacher Carrie Lewkowitz 24 Dependance on Congregation members to lead services Charles Korrick Rosenzweig Mr. Friedman Brenda Meckler 26 Hebrew Men's Club organized while he was in college 26 B'nai B'rith Men 26 Poker games Milton Sachs Saul Lebeau Jake Simon 28 Current location of Temple Beth Israel part of first wife's (Helen) family's farm 29-30 Met his wife, Helen Adams (not Jewish) 30 Second wife, Margaret Miller 31 Downtown Phoenix in the 20's 31 Stores open late on Saturday night 32 Charter government in Phoenix, creation to change from ward system of city government (corruption) 32 Corruption in police department 33 City Council election Harry Rosenzweig Mrs. Kober Barry Goldwater 33 Financial chairman of Charter Government group: Eli 34 "Victor Camp" - name used for reporting contributions to the campaign 35 Easter Seal Society work with Phoenix "Crippled Children's Society" at 1935 36 National Easter Seal Society Charles Becker 36 Vocational Rehabilitation Society 37 Handicapped parking areas an idea of Eli's Milton Gorodezky Sarah Gorodezky 39 Sam's Cigar Store Sam Kotzen 40 "Morris the Cook" 40 1st Ave. between Monroe and Adams St. 41 The Grand Restaurant - Adams between Central and 1st Ave. Harry Rabinowitz 42 Jewish Community Council Charles Korrick Abe Korrick Isaac Rosenzweig Herman Lewkowitz Barnett Marks Royal Marks Mrs. Barnett Marks Funk Family Ike Diamond Abe Diamond Harold Diamond Zeitlin Family Mr. Friedman (first name unknown) Morris Meckler George Holtz Eli Gorodezky Interview This is Evanne Kofman with the Phoenix Chapter of the Arizona Jewish Historical Society. Today I'm In the home of Eli Gorodezky at 3701 E. Pierson. We're going to be talking about some of his memories and outstanding recollections of growing up In Phoenix, going to school. KOFMAN: Eli, when did your family first come to Arizona? GORODEZKY: We came with my grandma, Mrs. Elke Spector from Kansas City, Kansas and arrived here on January 21, 1919 in quest for a healthy spot for my brother, Milton, who was 14 months younger than I, suffering with asthma. I will never forget our first trip on what was the Golden State Limited, a combination of the Rock Island and Southern Pacific Railroad with this exclusive train going to Arizona and California. KOFMAN: Where did you get on the train? GORODEZKY: We got on in Kansas City, Missouri from Union Station. It took us close to 48 hours to make the trip and we arrived in Maricopa, Arizona at around 4:00 or 5:00 in the morning, where we changed from the Golden State Limited to the Arizona Eastern that ran from Maricopa to Phoenix. The train consisted of a locomotive, one or two boxcars and one passenger car with a big belly stove with wood to keep warm. Remember, it's about 4:00 or 5:00 In the morning and it was January. We arrived in Phoenix about an hour or so later and the train stopped at the railroad tracks at Central Avenue. on the north side of the railroad tracks was the Sante Fe freight depot. That's how you came to Phoenix on the exclusive elite Golden State Limited. KOFMAN: Do you remember it as being a pleasant trip or a difficult trip? GORODEZKY: No, it was a pleasant trip, very pleasant. KOFMAN: Were you excited to be coming to Arizona? GORODEZKY: Oh, I enjoyed the idea. It was strange, but nothing bothered then and nothing bothers me now; roll with the punch. We arrived roughly about 9:00 In Phoenix, give or take. Grandma had me - -and I was handicapped at that time -- and my brother. So we got down to the Adams Hotel and the desk man said, "I'm sorry, lady, we don't have a room, no space whatsoever, but I see you have two children with you. Let me see what I can do." He called the Commercial Hotel, which later became the Luhrs Hotel and it was at the northeast corner of Central and Jefferson. It had one of those metal cage elevator, no partition in it. I never will forget the first drink of water that I took In the hotel, and spit it up immediately. It was salty as it could be. I later read that water came from the water tower at 9th Street and Van Buren, right in back of the apartment (?), where we had this tall reserve water tank. But it was really alkaline. KOFMAN: What was your impression of the town? Certainly it would have been much smaller than where you were coming from. GORODEZKY: Well, I don't think I had any impressions at all. I was very much interested, across the street from the hotel which was the southeast corner of Central and Jefferson, a great big hole in the ground. It was enormous and it had a dirt ramp that covered maybe a story and a half of distance, if you had a building. It was fairly wide so that you could drive horse and buggy down the ramp and park your horse and wagon or whatever you had on the ground that was maybe 30 or 40 feet above the sidewalk. That was interesting me very much to see that big hole right in the town. KOFMAN: What was the hole from? GORODEZKY: Well, it looked like it was the beginning of the construction later of the Luhrs Building. I hope I'm recalling history but that's where the Luhrs Building is now. The street cars we had were of the nature of the San Francisco trolley cars, cable cars. They were exact as far as I could tell from the old cable car, but they operated with a regular motor in the front or the back, whichever way they were going, a motor on each end I guess you call it, to power the motor. That was fun to see them go by. KOFMAN: They didn't have those in Kansas City then? GORODEZKY: Oh, no, no. We were modern in Kansas City compared to what we had at that time. A day or two after we arrived we got a place on 4th Avenue on the west side of 4th Avenue about half a block north of Van Buren. In those days they had, and I guess we still do, but we were very proud of it then, light housekeeping rooms. That meant you had maybe a two room outfit; there was a bedroom, then maybe you'd have another room that was your kitchen or living zoom or dining room. We rented from a lady named Abramson or Abrams. She had a couple of houses in that area and that was really her business. of course, she only had one bathroom in this particular light housekeeping outfit. We lived there for maybe a month or two. KOFMAN: This was just you and your brother and your grandmother? GORODEZKY: That is right. KOFMAN: Let me ask you a question. Why didn't your parents come? GORODEZKY: They were running the store. Somebody had to make the grocery money to take care and pay the transportation and everything. Mother and dad ran a grocery and meat market and had been for years. I was able to go to school that first year in a special class for handicapped children - mentally or physical. I guess I went for physical and maybe it shouldn't have been, but nevertheless, I was picked up by the truant officer every morning in a Ford touring car; not a sedan, but a Ford touring car with a running board. I only had about three blocks to go and he would permit me to ride on the running board because It was fun. We went to this special class at the School Administration Building that was on 2nd Avenue east side and north of Van Buren, about a half a block north of Van Buren. Incidentally, later the auditorium of that building on the second floor later became a founding, I would say, of Temple Beth Israel. Because it was from that location that eventually we had a new building on Culver. I can't tell you how many years afterwards, oh maybe four or five, but nevertheless that was where we met for a period of time. KOFMAN: I'd like to ask you a little bit more about your grandmother. That was an undertaking for a grandma to come West with two small children, one who had asthma, one who was handicapped. Can you elaborate on her and tell me a little more about her? GORODEZKY: I'm glad you asked me that question because in all sincerity and from the bottom of my heart she was the most wonderful person that one would ever know. She was well read In the Bible and Talmud. She had an uncanny ability to tell us stories from what she read; never went to bed without reading either one of those at night. Then we would -- my brother and I -- would get stories and they just made an everlasting impression. She was very, very kind. She and a few other Jewish ladies became what I call the Phoenix Jewish Community Chest. By that I mean they would go and if they heard of any person that had distress or somebody died and there was no way of getting a shroud and needed to buy him, they'd go and get some money and who would you call? Well, you'd always call on the Korricks, who operated the New York Store. KOFMAN: Did you call on either one or was it Abe or Charlie that you called on? GORODEZKY: Now wait, I didn't do the calling. This is my grandmother that made the trips, walking from about 7th Street and Van Buren to the location of their store. It was downtown; it wasn't too far. There was a street car that you could take, but you wouldn't save much because by the time you got to the street car you only had a couple more blocks to be down where you're going. She was not acting alone, she had several other Jewish ladies who participated but I do know that she would be out quite a bit. I guess when they saw her coming, I guess their question is, Now how much. But I don't want to say that, that was the only ones that they called on, because you had the Mecklers that had a Jewelry and pawn shop on Washington just a little east of 3rd Street. She would always be ready if aid was needed for persons in distress. KOFMAN: She was a widow? GORODEZKY: She was a widow, yes. KOFMAN: And where had she come from, been born? GORODEZKY: Russia. KOFMAN: From Russia? GORODEZKY: Right. She landed In Cleveland for a little while and then landed In Kansas City later where her brother and his family lived. KOFMAN: Do you remember who were some of the other Jewish ladies that were part of this Community Chest effort? GORODEZKY: I wish I could tell you, but I can't. But I know that there was somebody with her from time to time, but I can't name them. You know the Korricks had what they call the New York Store and the Diamonds -- I don't know if It's necessary to name them but one was Charles Korrick and Abe Korrick. I'm answering my own question now. Then you had Ike Diamond; then he had another brother, I think, but I can't tell you the name. They had the Boston Store. In the old days when one ran an ad, a very similar ad ran side by side or in the same paper. You'd think somebody was spying on each other's copy, but it was great fun to see the ads. KOFMAN: The families got along pretty well, I gather? GORODEZKY: Oh, beautifully. They each had children, Diamonds and Korricks; some of them are still around, no longer children. KOFMAN: How did your grandmother go about introducing herself into the Jewish community and -- GORODEZKY: Well, I can't tell you that because I was in school when she was making her trips, but she had a personality that would just penetrate. KOFMAN: Do you remember some of the first Jewish types of get-togethers that you would start going to? GORODEZKY: Yes, I think I can tell you very, very well. Not necessarily chronologically but as best as memory takes me back. It would be during the High Holy season that -- and my grandma was a "frumeh yid", a traditional Jewish person. She would eat no meat that wasn't killed by the shochet you understand the "shochet"? (Ritual slaughterer of animals for "kosher" meat.) KOFMAN: Yes. GORODEZKY: Good. Sometimes she had very little to eat other than fruit and vegetables because you always couldn't get kosher meat. Selkoms had a grocery shop and they had, from time to time, I don't think it was limited to kosher meat, but I'm sure they couldn't get by with that alone, but nevertheless It was available there. That was her source of meats In those days. But mother and dad would send packages, the forerunner of the Care package, with salami and something that she could send--it took four days to get mail, especially a package from Kansas City at that time. She was a great person. She took care of us beautifully. KOFMAN: Did your brother's health improve very quickly? GORODEZKY: Well, it improved. It wasn't quickly, but yes, he could tolerate it. One time, one or two years afterwards, we didn't come and we had to make a special trip because he couldn't stand the Kansas City weather. KOFMAN: Then when you came out here for his health with your grandmother, the Idea was not that you would be there permanently. Your parents intended to stay in Kansas City, I take it? GORODEZKY: Yes, they stayed in Kansas City, but they did sell out their store and came out here in August of 1919, unbeknown to us that they were arriving. They came in at about 8:00 or 8:30 in the morning. We were living in a different light housekeeping place. We lived at 731 East Van Buren; open screen porch, It was about July or August and my brother, Milton, and I had a big pillow fight. Grandma came in with a switch or her hand, but we both got it and we were crying like all billy heck when mother and dad came in. KOFMAN: Just grandma's luck. GORODEZKY: Yes. And that's when they first came here. They were here for, oh, maybe six months. They bought a home here at 13th Street and Roosevelt, the southeast corner, a beautiful home built by a man that was a brick layer by profession. That was his business. He built it on an acre of ground, beautifully constructed and they tell us that it had been used in one or two locations for movies. KOFMAN: Can you describe that house to me a little bit more? GORODEZKY: Well, the most important thing was the column set down periodically with pipe, about a two inch pipe, running near a beautiful fence. on the inside of it, about a foot or 18 inch zinnia garden, just solid. KOFMAN: Was this a house with wood floors and two stories? GORODEZKY: Yes, it had wood floors. Remember, he was a construction man and he had the best. It was terrific and was right across the street from Garfield School, which suited the folks beautifully because all I had to do was walk across the street.Then on another corner, katty- corner, we had a house that had cows and we got our fresh milk. Right across from our home on 13th Street to 12th or 13th there was one home on the northeast corner of 12th Street and Roosevelt - a beautiful two- story home. I may be wrong, but as I recall I think the name was Mrs. Sadler. Except for that house, that whole square was a cotton field. Right across the street from our place. During the summer, in the morning, when the cotton was wet and weighed more from the moisture -- it had rained during the night in the summertime, whatever it was -- we'd pick cotton. So I may work an hour or two and got 30 cents. But it was fun; we got all scratched up and everything like that. That was when they first came here. They couldn't get into anything they thought they could do any good with and the people that bought the store, the grocery store, meat market, in Kansas City was having trouble. So about August or -- well, later maybe, mid-winter, they went back. KOFMAN: But you and your brother and your grandmother stayed? GORODEZKY: Yes. We stayed in that big house. Then later it was sold. Then the folks finally came out three or four years later and settled down in Phoenix. KOFMAN: You started to tell me about some of the early High Holidays that you remembered. GORODEZKY: Well, I can't give you the order in which this took place -- KOFMAN: That's all right. GORODEZKY: I do know that one or two High Holy Days they met in a private residence on East Taylor, about the twelve or thirteen hundred block on Taylor. It was a small group, naturally Orthodox. Then a year or two later or thereabouts they met on the High Holy Days in a building, second floor, that was the odd Fellows Lodge. I was under the Impression that it was the Elks Lodge room, but Royal Marks indicated that it was the Odd Fellows, but be that as it may, that's where the High Holy Days was conducted for two or three years. It was on Washington Street between lst and 2nd Street, at the alley, west of the alley. Right across the alley, facing Washington was Rosenzweigs. Underneath the lodge room was Donofrios Confectionery, the candy. KOFMAN: Did you go to Donofrios often? GORODEZKY: No. We were comparatively young kids so you didn't go out like they do now; it's a different age. And no, we didn't. KOFMAN: Who did you become friendly with as a boy, your buddies that you remember? GORODEZKY: Well, I Imagine you're trying to think in terms of the Jewish community. KOFMAN: Yes, but not exclusively so. GORODEZKY: Well, okay. I'm thinking now of the Jewish community. In fact, I think I can name most of the people who were in the first confirmation class from Beth Israel. KOFMAN: I'd like to know. GORODEZKY: You had Ruth Edelman; their dad ran a grocery store, I think on 13th Street. There were several Edelman girls, but Ruth was in that class. There was a Beatrice Miller; I can't tell at this time too much about her folks. There was Milton Cooper. My brother and myself constituted the first class after the new Beth Israel temple was built. KOFMAN: You were confirmed at the building on Culver? GORODEZKY: That's right; that's right. From the time we first came here until the time that the temple was constructed, we got picnics, Echo Canyon for one, Riverside Park for another. We had no swimming in Echo Canyon, but you did have swimming facilities at Riverside Park. KOFMAN: Now, where was Riverside Park exactly? GORODEZKY: Riverside Park was on Central Avenue on the east side of the road Just about a block or two from@where the bridge started the river crossing. I think we had a bridge In those days, but I'm not sure. But that's where It was. When you had a big storm and a lot of water coming down there, everybody would go at noon to see the river high up to Central Avenue. KOFMAN: Did they have many problems with flooding at that time? GORODEZKY: Yes, yes. But not as extensive as we have of late, because a lot of that land was vacant. KOFMAN: How about Echo Canyon, where was that? GORODEZKY: Echo Canyon is on McDowell Road just before you make your last turn going to Camelback Country Club, left if you're going east on McDowell to go to Camelback Lodge. KOFMAN: These picnics that you've talked about, were these Beth Israel picnics? GORODEZKY: Beth Israel picnics, what constituted the congregation. KOFMAN: Were they basically at holiday times or was it just something that they did? GORODEZKY: Just something to keep the group together. Seikoms, I told you, had a meat market. I never will forget one Sunday that we had the picnic. He had a Ford pickup and he bought the supplies, the food, but he got stuck getting in there, cutting across the desert. So a bunch of them had to go out and push; it was about a mile away from where we were, but a bunch of them went out and pushed and helped the truck get going. They had sack runs and races and Just anything to keep interest going. At the Riverside Park you had fishing, swimming. But it was the gathering and cementing of a congregation. KOFMAN: I gather they were very well attended then? GORODEZKY: I would say so. Maybe 40, 50 people. KOFMAN: That was probably a lot for then. GORODEZKY: Yes. And maybe more. I wasn't keeping count, but it was a lot of fun and a lot of kids too. KOFMAN: That's what I had asked you before and I'll get back to it again. Who did you become friendly with, the young Jewish boys and girls that you were growing up with here, other than those In your confirmation class, were there others that you spent some time with? GORODEZKY: Not too many. In high school you spent time with everybody. In grade school I don't think I had many, if any, Jewish kids that I can think about. Oh, there was a family of Silverstones that lived a block or two from us, lived on Polk. one daughter is still alive and still living in the place. Mary Silverstone was her sister and a classmate in high school, and another brother, Abe Silverstone, who is now deceased. We were friendly with them. They, incidentally, came from Kansas City, Missouri. I can't think of anybody in particular we were friendly with, nobody that we didn't have kindness for. But didn't run around too much with the group until after I got out of college and came to Phoenix and we were on our own. KOFMAN: How did you decide to go into law? GORODEZKY: Well, I didn't know of anything else that would be something I could handle, remember I was handicapped. I walked with crutches and cane In those days. I went through high school, graduated in Kansas City High School, because that's one year that I stayed there. I came here, had an operation in Council Bluff, Iowa and that was half a day's ride from Kansas City. I was operated on by a great orthopedic man, who said he couldn't guarantee to make me run, but thought he could make me walk. While I was up there I met some Jewish boys through the people who ran the hotel in Council Bluff. They knew the situation; their name was Cohens (?). KOFMAN: If you don't mind my asking, what had caused the handicap? GORODEZKY: Spastic cerebral palsy. Cerebral palsy evidences itself in five or six different things creating handicap situations, some speech, some palsy and mine was a contractual situation of the ligaments - too short. My heels never touched the ground until I was operated on. KOFMAN: And you were born with this? GORODEZKY: Yes. My grandma, I told you, a terrific person, she lived a lot on her dreams and she tells the story that she was going the hill In Kansas City, Kansas to the store that was on the bottom of the hill. Three men sitting on a bus bench, or equivalent to that because there was a street car line there, and they stopped her. They said, "You are going to have a grandson and you should name him Eli, and he's going to be crippled." KOFMAN: Who were the men? GORODEZKY: This is a dream. KOFMAN: Oh, a dream. GORODEZKY: She didn't tell my mother or dad anything at all, but she told the doctor, "Look closely to see if you can tell anything like that." They couldn't. But when I wasn't walking by 15 months or so they knew that something was wrong. Now, there we go. KOFMAN: Well, you were telling me so you decided to go to law school. GORODEZKY: Well, it seemed like it would be something good that I could handle nicely and just became interested, thought I'd do it. I took printing when I was in high school In my freshman year In Kansas City, and my professor said, This is a sophomore course." I says, "I know it is." He said, "Why do you want it?" "Well, I'd like to learn a trade, because if I couldn't go to school very much, folks couldn't take care of me, I'd have something to fall back on." And this Kansas City High School print shop did all the work for the school system, report cards and announcements. In fact, printing fascinated me. I stayed in -- my class maybe ended at about two or three o'clock -- I stayed in school until about 5:30, 6:00, except on Thursday when I took my piano lesson, because all I had to do was grab a street car and go about four blocks from the high school to the folks' grocery store in downtown Kansas City, Kansas. Then I'd hop on the truck and go home with mother and dad. So I loved printing. It was right next to a journalism class, so I got a little bit acquainted with the journalism industry or profession, If you want to call it that, and so I made that a thing that I followed at the University of Arizona as an extra activity. I had journalism and went ahead with it and got a job with the Republic, a string writer, $10 minimum a month for 100 inches. If it ran over 100 I got 10 cents an inch. But I also got the Daily Republic -- in those days it was called the Daily Republican. KOFMAN: What years are we talking about now? GORODEZKY: We're talking now about 1928, '29, in that area. KOFMAN: In other words, you became a reporter? GORODEZKY: Yes. KOFMAN: Did you already have your law degree or -- GORODEZKY: No, no. KOFMAN: This was before? GORODEZKY: This was an extracurricular activity. We handled the Wildcat as a news reporter once and the following year I was a news editor and the third year I was the editor. KOFMAN: At the Daily Republic? GORODEZKY: No, no. This is the Wildcat, University paper. KOFMAN: I see. GORODEZKY: I lost out the job after two years of being a string writer for the Republic when the society editor's son started at the University. Naturally, I lost my job, but I didn't worry about that. I always had fun In whatever I did. KOFMAN: What kinds of stories did you cover for them? Tell me what a string writer does, I really don't know. GORODEZKY: They want copies on the Phoenix people particularly, because that's the area of matriculation - Phoenix students that do something outstanding, and that's what we did. Then we handled the Press Box for two years at the University, just four telephones was all we had. I wanted to make sure that the Republic got their paper, so they could carry the story, by 10:00, so we'd open up the telephone, talk to that one sports editor of the Wildcat, write copy, type and just before the game is over I'd grab a line because if I didn't some other papers would grab It. I was selfish enough to grab a line, although I was supposed to be the host of the Press Box, but my job came first. KOFMAN: That's being a real newspaper reporter. GORODEZKY: Yes. We ran several stories that -- boy, am I getting away from the topic that we were talking about. KOFMAN: That's fine. I'm very interested. GORODEZKY: But I ran the story on the first student to matriculate In the University of Arizona and they're celebrating their hundredth year too. KOFMAN: The first woman student? GORODEZKY: Yes. I think her name was Fish, I'm not sure, I could be completely wrong. The Daily Citizen, the evening paper, took that story from the Wildcat, didn't make one change, not even a comma or a period and didn't give the Wildcat credit for it. KOFMAN: That's poor form In the Journalism business, isn't it? GORODEZKY: Yes, it was. KOFMAN: Let me ask you a question about that. In other words, you're telling me that the University of Arizona for many, many years only had male students? GORODEZKY: No, I didn't say that. KOFMAN: Oh, I thought you said it was the first woman to matriculate. GORODEZKY: No, I corrected myself and want to correct myself now -- the first person to matriculate. KOFMAN: Oh, I see. Okay. GORODEZKY: Way back at the turn of the century. KOFMAN: All right. Now I understand. One thing I wanted to ask you, when did your parents finally decide to come back? GORODEZKY: The final decision -- oh, sometime later. Oh, it was during the World War. That was it, because I was in Red Cross so we're talking about the 40's when they came in. KOFMAN: So you spent a good deal of your growing years living with your grandmother in Phoenix while your parents were in Kansas City, and you did travel back and forth to see them but you basically -- GORODEZKY: Well, we lived there In the summertime. Yes, we were split up that way, but it held up nicely. And as I say, sometimes my grandmother would take Milton without me and I'd stay with the folks. They came out during the war, I was already in Red Cross at Luke Field. When they came out I moved out of my little apartment and lived at home. They were on Hubble Street. KOFMAN: What did you do in the Red Cross? GORODEZKY: I was field director, assistant field director at Luke Field. Went in one year after Pearl Harbor and had to really scream to tell them that I could handle the job, and the handicap wasn't any hindrance. So I finally made it after ten months. KOFMAN: Now, did you have your law degree already at the same time? GORODEZKY: Oh, yes. I was already practicing law. KOFMAN: And you were able to practice law and at the same time do the Red Cross? GORODEZKY: No. KOFMAN: You didn't practice law and you took the other job instead? GORODEZKY: Well, I was already practicing law. I was admitted in 1933, but the war came on about eight or nine years later and it was then that I wanted to be of service. I wrote the Army, Navy, Marines and everything, and you get the same old postcard, no openings. So I heard about Red Cross and you're in uniform and you're on the field, and I applied. It took me ten months to break some heads over there, but finally they capitulated and sent me In without any training, Just right on the Job training rather than going to Washington to train. I really screamed. Anyway, let's get back to Phoenix. KOFMAN: Well, this is interesting. Luke Field is -- all of those air bases were a part of Phoenix, certainly. I'm interested - what were your duties? What did you do at the Red Cross? GORODEZKY: Red Cross was liaison between the citizens, mothers and dads, of servicemen and women. If you needed emergency furlough it was up to the Red Cross Field Director to check with the Red Cross Chapter to verify that John Jones Is needed, his mother is very low or his wife had an accident and it's an emergency. That was one of the things we did. We took care of the welfare service of servicemen if they had any problems of that nature. KOFMAN: How long did you do that? GORODEZKY: I was there for four years to the end of the war, World War II. KOFMAN: It was during this time that your parents came out. Did they go into business here or did they just retire? GORODEZKY: Well, they did go into business a little later at 10th Avenue and Washington, right across the street from the library. An old grocer by the name of Pat used to run the store and they were there for two or three years. Then my dad and mother soft of retired and they lived at Laurel (?) and became very good tenders of the temple, because they had nothing to do. of course, this is in later years. KOFMAN: Was your grandmother still alive then? GORODEZKY: My grandma had died, in about 1928 In Kansas City. KOFMAN: Had she been ill and gone back to Kansas City because of it? GORODEZKY: She went back to Kansas City, she had stomach cancer and they took her to Kansas City for medical attention. KOFMAN: You mentioned your members of the old confirmation class and etc. Did you attend Temple Beth Israel religious school fairly regularly? GORODEZKY: Oh, yes. KOFMAN: Can you tell me something about some-of your early teachers and what the program was like then? GORODEZKY: Well, we had Sunday School. KOFMAN: Were you an enthusiastic attender or did you -- GORODEZKY: Oh, yes, loved it. I'd catch a street car coming from Van Buren to Culver and sometimes I'd go, most Sundays I'd go, and take it home with my brother. Herman Lewkowitz was courting one of our Sunday School teachers, Carrie. KOFMAN: What was her maiden name, do you remember? I'm sure I can find that, we know Carrie Lewkowitz. GORODEZKY: I'm trying to think and -- no, I can't remember that name to save my soul. He was courting her and he had an open touring car and always kept the top down, in the summertime at least, and so we rode in the back of the car and we'd take Carrie from Sunday School and dropped us off and then he went to follow Carrie. They're wonderful people. Herman Lewkowitz and my mother went to the same school in Kansas City, Missouri, same grade school. He's been here a long time. Now, where do we go? KOFMAN: Oh, we can go lots of places. I asked you about the program -- were the classes large? At this time was it more orthodox and were they mixed classes -- they were boys and girls, obviously. GORODEZKY: Yes. We'd be in little corners, as I recall, little groups. Then we had services, always attended services and the temple was always filled then. KOFMAN: Who was the rabbi at that time? GORODEZKY: The first rabbi that we had here - I can't think of his name to save my soul. KOFMAN: Was it Rabbi Dow or somebody before? GORODEZKY: Somebody before, as I recall who, incidentally, married my mother and father in Leavenworth, Kansas. But I can't tell you who the rabbis were at all. If I could Just have that book that at one time the temple published with the names of the rabbis over a period of time, I could spot him. We depended more on our lay people. KOFMAN: How do you mean? GORODEZKY: Well, we always didn't have a rabbi but you always had a couple of men that knew enough about the Bible and the Scroll and what not. KOFMAN: Torah. GORODEZKY: -- Torah that could help conduct the services. KOFMAN: Do you remember who they were? GORODEZKY: Not at the present time. Oh, Korricks was very active, particularly Charlie. No, I can't. I wish I could. Rosenzweig. We had a chap by the name of Friedman, first name I can't tell you. KOFMAN: Was it Morris by any chance? GORODEZKY: He had one arm gone. He was in the insurance and real estate business. No, I can't quite -- the people that would attend. But it was a nice group. KOFMAN: Brenda Meckler had an interesting story - someone else had talked to her, but she remembered a Purim where they had borrowed a wooden horse from, I guess it was Diamonds store, and they had a pageant and they had one of the school children riding the wooden horse as Mordecai and then of course Haman had to lead him. Did they do many things like that, that you remember? GORODEZKY: Well, she was very active. She was one of our teachers. Very, very fine person, and then she became Ms.- I remember her mother and dad too. Meckler. KOFMAN: Do you remember any of your other teachers, anyone outstanding who really impressed you? GORODEZKY: No. Carrie I think was one of our teachers. No, I can't at the moment. KOFMAN: When I first arrived, before we even really started to talk, you were telling me about the Hebrew Men's Club. How did you get into that and can you tell me something about the meetings? GORODEZKY: Well, we just had a good time group. We'd just get together, usually at someone's home. KOFMAN: About how many men were there? GORODEZKY: Oh, we'd count on 15 to 20. I wasn't from the beginning. They organized while I was still in college, but they asked me to come in later. Then we had the B'nai B'rith also active. Both meetings would end up with poker games. KOFMAN: Then this was at someone's home? GORODEZKY: Well, then for awhile it was at the temple. I think we got the devil, as I remember, for playing in the temple, but generally we'd go to someone's home. I was a bachelor, before I got married, and they'd come to my little apartment and I'd get the corned beef, the salami, the dry bread and this, that and the other. KOFMAN: Who were these poker players? Can you tell me their names? GORODEZKY: Gee, I should have done my homework. KOFMAN: I think the Statute of Limitations is okay, you know, It wouldn't hurt to reveal their names now. GORODEZKY: I'm not worried about that. KOFMAN: I'm not too worried either. GORODEZKY: Could have been your dad in some of them. How long has he been here? KOFMAN: No, my dad never played poker and he didn't get here until around '43. GORODEZKY: Well, there was Milton Sacks; there was a printer what's his name? I saw him not too long ago. KOFMAN: Pearlstein? No, Saul Lebeau. GORODEZKY: Saul Lebeau; I think Jake Simon was in there too. He was one of the firemen, later became one of the fire captains. His dad had a butcher shop I was telling you about. I can't think of any more. Milton Sacks - does that name ring a bell? KOFMAN: It does ring a bell. How long did these games typically last, into the wee, small hours of the morning? GORODEZKY: No, no. I think about 11:00, 11:30 we were through. KOFMAN: Was this a regular once a week thing or -- GORODEZKY: No, it was more like once a month or every two weeks, at the most. B'nai B'rith, you know, had meetings every two weeks. KOFMAN: So you were a bachelor now. I understand that the Hebrew Men's club was quite a social organization, they sponsored partiesand things like that. Do you remember any of those? GORODEZKY: Some, yes. KOFMAN: Tell me about them. GORODEZKY: Well, I didn't attend too many of the dances. I can't tell you too much. KOFMAN: How was B'nai B'rith Men different than Hebrew Men's Club? GORODEZKY: B'nai B'rith had a ritual they followed. They'd do something worthwhile. We didn't do anything really worthwhile, we didn't do anything harmful, but we were more fun than anything. That was the only purpose of it. KOFMAN: Where did you finally meet your first wife? GORODEZKY: Went to pay a bill during the Red Cross days at Paul Bennett's (?); that was a Goodyear dealer and gasoline station. KOFMAN: The difference, I think, between B'nai B'rith and Hebrew Men's Club you said one was more fun and one was a little more benevolent. GORODEZKY: Yes. Most of the members of the Hebrew Men's Club were members of the B'nai B'rith. KOFMAN: So they did both things, then? GORODEZKY: Yeah, gave them a chance to get out every week. KOFMAN: Do you remember how the impetus came for building the temple that stands now on Flower? GORODEZKY: The temple now? KOFMAN: The one now. GORODEZKY: Well, it was one in which we just didn't have room and they started scouting around and looking at ground and they found this ten acre parcel, and they bought it. when they consecrated the ground, it was at service on Sunday outside on the ground, I was courting Helen at that time. I may have been married, I don't know, by that time. Anyway, that was part of Helen's parents' ranch. KOFMAN: A ranch? which seems like right in the center of town now but- GORODEZKY: It was way, way out of town at 7th Avenue and- KOFMAN: 10th Avenue and Osborn, right? Phoenix College wasn't there then. GORODEZKY: Their farm began on 7th Avenue and went west. KOFMAN: And Phoenix College was not there at the time? GORODEZKY: Oh, yes, I think Phoenix College was. Oh, yes. And Incidentally, the temple had High Holy Day services also, as I recall, at Phoenix Junior College, the overflow. KOFMAN: This was after the one on Osborn was built? GORODEZKY: Right. KOFMAN: Later then they had it? GORODEZKY: Yes. KOFMAN: I know what it was before we put in this second tape, we were talking about how you met Helen. You said you went to pay a bill. GORODEZKY: For the Red Cross. Walked in, paid the bill and the manager at Paul Bennett's at that time was an old classmate at the University of Arizona, known him for years and we were very friendly. one had to go in to pay the Red Cross bills because you needed four receipts, one to Washington, one to San Francisco, one to your office here -- so, I told them, "I'll take off the afternoon and pay the bill." So, Kurt Williams (?) said, "You haven't met my new secretary, have you?" I didn't see much down there because I didn't go too often, it was down at Luke Field, so I said, "No, I haven't", so he introduced me. So happens that when I first saw her I thought that's the gal for me. KOFMAN: What was her maiden name? GORODEZKY: Her maiden name was Adams. Wasn't long she needed a divorce. So we set her up and I told her, "You're making a sad mistake, because you're going to go from the frying pan into the stove." KOFMAN: Oh, she was married then? GORODEZKY: Oh, yeah. So in due time I got her. KOFMAN: So, she came to you as an attorney then when she needed her divorce. GORODEZKY: Yes. KOFMAN: I see. And she was not Jewish. GORODEZKY: No. KOFMAN: Did your family give you any flack over that? GORODEZKY: No, no. KOFMAN: How long were you married? GORODEZKY: Let's see. Just short of 30 years. KOFMAN: And now you're married to Margaret. How long have you been married? GORODEZKY: Three years January 2nd. KOFMAN: Where did you meet Margaret? GORODEZKY: Margaret was a housekeeper. When I lost my wife I had to have a housekeeper. KOFMAN: What was her maiden name, or her name before she became Mrs. Gorodezky? GORODEZKY: Miller. KOFMAN: I'm kind of curious. I get very nostalgic over Phoenix. As I remember it as a child, and of course you can remember back before I can, can you describe if you were to be walking along a downtown street in that area where all those old Jewish businesses were in downtown Phoenix, can you tell me what you might see in Phoenix, say, this would have been in the 20's? GORODEZKY: Well, the 20's and 30's? KOFMAN: Yes. GORODEZKY: Well, one thing that always brought people downtown on a Saturday was just to go downtown and see people do late shopping. KOFMAN: Late shopping? GORODEZKY: Yeah, stores didn't close until nine. KOFMAN: I didn't know that. GORODEZKY: On Saturday. A lot of people went down there just to see people going by. What was your question again? KOFMAN: Just if you could describe that old Phoenix downtown area. GORODEZKY: It was a nice quiet place, street cars running. You could double park as long as you didn't tie up traffic and you didn't hold up somebody who wanted to get out. KOFMAN: Otherwise, you could just double park and leave your car there? GORODEZKY: Well, no, you'd want to be there to operate it, but double park if you had somebody in the car. It was a nice little town, small, no one bothered people, just went about your business. KOFMAN: You mentioned something to me, again before we really sat down and started talking, about being active in the formation of the Charter Government. Can you tell me something about that? GORODEZKY: Yes, that -- I can't give you years, I can't think of the name right now. A man from Ohio, as I recall, who developed the property on the south side of Thomas in about the 8th, 9th Street, very fine gentleman, got a group of us together to form some means of electing, other than by what do you call it? KOFMAN: Wards? GORODEZKY: Wards. Because it had become quite corrupt. KOFMAN: How? What were the examples of that kind of corruption? You don't have to name names if you don't want to. Of course, if you want to I would love to hear them. GORODEZKY: Some people had no problem with tickets, some people could do things and nothing would happen to them and the city was quite running wild, and a question about whether or not everything was being accounted for properly. KOFMAN: Is this in the 50's that this was happening? GORODEZKY: It's kind of hard to say. Anyway, corruption in the police department. Many times the chief of police would last one week, maybe two weeks, maybe one day. And there was just an awful lot of disturbance, dissent and bickering with one another. KOFMAN: At that time then the City Council was elected really on these little wards? Each ward had its own representative? GORODEZKY: That's right. KOFMAN: How many wards were there? GORODEZKY: I think there was about four or five. Names are getting hard for me to remember, I always had trouble with names. I think his name was Knight (?), now that we talk, brought a group together and we created what was called the Charter Government. One person running in that first election was Harry Rosenzweig, or was it Newt? (Newton Rosenzweig). One of the Rosenzweigs. Mrs. Kober -- KOFMAN: Kober? GORODEZKY: I can't think who ran for mayor. But it was a group of nice people. oh, Goldwater ran too. KOFMAN: This was all for the City Council? GORODEZKY: That's right. We had a great big election. I mean, great big meeting at the Westward Ho, Fiesta Room, and we had a couple hundred people there, all enthused. And they named me as financial chairman. They thought they could get by with $20,000 to $25,000 to campaign. As I was going down to my car, I walked with one of them and I said, "Boy, they don't know anything about politics, I can tell you that." And he agreed with me, as far as the finance is concerned. Anyway, I was supposed to collect the money. The other people did the solicitation but everything came into my hands. We accounted for every penny. If people wanted to give money they'd make it out to Victor Camp. KOFMAN: Victor Camp? GORODEZKY: Yes. That's Victorious Campaign. And they used that method of reporting as a business expense. I shouldn't probably go into this. KOFMAN: That's an interesting theory or practice. GORODEZKY: I didn't want anything coming to me because then it would be construed as fees or something. KOFMAN: Couldn't it have been made out Just to Charter Government? GORODEZKY: Well, yes, but you can't take off expenses to political campaigns, in those days. You can take off a little bit now. So we ran that for about four or five elections and then the county wanted the same thing. So I had three or four elections and collected the money. KOFMAN: I understand. GORODEZKY: I had a lot of fun. I love politics. KOFMAN: That's very interesting. Were you ever on the board of directors of Temple Beth Israel? GORODEZKY: No. KOFMAN: You never were. I would have thought you'd have been drafted by someone to be on the board. GORODEZKY: No, they didn't. KOFMAN: Okay. Tell me some more about your citywide activities, because I know you've done a lot of things around the city. GORODEZKY: Well, I was in the Easter Seal Society. When I first got in the practice of law I was Introduced to the fact that there was an Easter Seal Society by a lady that was working in a CCC Camp in the Security Building where they had their headquarters. We met at Donofrios --this Is a different location of Donofrios on Central, I don't know whether you remember that or not, next to the Security Building -- so we'd meet for breakfast or something. KOFMAN: Is the CCC - was that the Conservation Corp -- I can't remember. GORODEZKY: Yes, Civilian Conservation Corp. And she said, "Eli, we've got an Easter Seal Society for crippled children." Or it was called Easter Seal-- no, it wasn't called Easter Seal; Easter Seal became a symbol later. "It's been in existence a couple of years and we need somebody to start it and give it some spark." I wish I could remember her name, but I can't. I said, "No, I've got my hands full, got lots to do, I haven't got time." So I went home that night - I was single - and I couldn't sleep, something was gnawing on me. The gnawing was that here I am, a handicapped person that was blessed by the Lord and had folks that could take care of me and they did all they could with an operation or two or something like that, and I was able to get out in the world. I thought, that's a hell of a selfish way to be. So as soon as I got there the next day and saw her at breakfast I said, "Now, what do you want me to do?" So that's how I got in the Easter Seal Society. KOFMAN: About what year was this? GORODEZKY: Oh, it's got to be about '35 or thereabouts. KOFMAN: Then you were still quite young. GORODEZKY: 135 or 140, something like that. KOFMAN: Did you have fund raising drives? GORODEZKY: Oh, yes. KOFMAN: Now, what did you do? I'm very interested. GORODEZKY: Well, I was chairman of the local chapter and we had fund raising. Charlie Becker of the First National Bank was a treasurer once. They used my name because I began to become known - good or bad, I became known - so that helped bring some money in, we hoped. Then the next thing I was on the State Easter Seal Society and then later moved into the National and was vice president for a couple of years. In 1955 or thereabouts I was on the Vocational Rehabilitation Advisory Council. Did I mention that earlier? KOFMAN: No. GORODEZKY: I was on that for three years. It required that out of the twenty people three of them had to be handicapped people. When I heard about that I got my campaign going and was appointed to the first Advisory Council. We did a lot of projects for the handicapped people. This parking stuff was part of what we did. KOFMAN: Parking? GORODEZKY: The handicapped parking in shopping centers and things like that. KOFMAN: Oh. GORODEZKY: I created the thing by myself with the International Shopping Center Association. I thought of the idea and I wrote the manager, whom I knew, a very fine chap, and I wrote a story on how to handle the handicapped parking for people. of course, I didn't have that symbol, I just had "handicapped only". You had in the periodic publication a little city in Ohio, with a name that began with an "E" with four or five letters If I looked at my geography I might be able to find it, it was the first one that used it. KOFMAN: It was a great idea. GORODEZKY: Then these handicapped facilities that we have here, with the toilet doors opening out and the ramps was something we did too, with legislation. We did a lot of projects like that, within the Voc. National Advisory Council; spent about five or six million dollars a year for different projects. KOFMAN: Did you specialize in one particular type of law? GORODEZKY: In the end I did, but In the early part I was a general practitioner and got into partnership after World War and headed the partnership about the latter part of the 40's, '48, '49. About three years ago I went for myself and then I'm now retired. KOFMAN: Where did Milton go, your brother? GORODEZKY: Milton eventually -- well, he worked for Sears here for awhile. KOFMAN: I didn't know that. GORODEZKY: He worked for Sears. He worked for Maricopa Packing and he had a grocery store for awhile at 14th Street and Garfield. They bought it from Rosenbergs years ago. Then he went to California, got into a delicatessen. Did you know his wife, Sarah, by any chance? KOFMAN: I don't think so. GORODEZKY: They had two children, boy and girl. KOFMAN: So they stayed in California? GORODEZKY: Then they lived in California and he worked for Sears finally there, also worked for Sears here. Then just was ill for a couple of days, shoulder or something. Went into Sears and while he was there he had a heart attack and was gone. KOFMAN: Was this recently? GORODEZKY: Oh, no, about 12, 15 years ago. KOFMAN: Did any other members of your family, you know from your grandmother's side or your grandfather's or your parents' families, come out to the Phoenix area? GORODEZKY: No. KOFMAN: You were the only ones? GORODEZKY: Yes, the only ones. Came for health purposes. And I love Phoenix. KOFMAN: Was there anything about it that you would want to change right now? GORODEZKY: No, nothing that I can think of. KOFMAN: It doesn't bother you, the population growth and any of that? GORODEZKY: Well, it's inevitable, it's the most ideal place in the world to live in. You can't hide It. Traffic gets me; I don't know if someday that we may have to look at the back of a parking lot from here, one block south. KOFMAN: Do you remember anything about a local restaurant downtown that Jewish people used to congregate at called Sam's Cigar Store? GORODEZKY: I sure do. KOFMAN: Can you tell me about that place? Someone mentioned it to me and really couldn't describe it to me that well. You seem good at describing things. GORODEZKY: Sam -- what was his last name? KOFMAN: Kotzen. GORODEZKY: Kotzen. He married Mildred somebody - I can't think of who It was now. Well, he had a cook called Morris -- KOFMAN: "Morris the Cook"? GORODEZKY: Morris was a cook. And he would have the best "Yiddish" food you could make. KOFMAN: That's what I heard. GORODEZKY: Almost homemade. It was "geshmakh" [tasty]. KOFMAN: You tell me. GORODEZKY: Delicious. And it was a favorite place, he had cigars and had a couple tables, half a dozen tables and a counter. KOFMAN: Where was this downtown? GORODEZKY: On 1st Avenue between Monroe and Adams, right on the alley that ran east and west. It was on the north side of that alley. Lamson's Business College was right across the alley. KOFMAN: I've heard that it was quite a gathering place for especially the Jewish businessmen that were downtown. GORODEZKY: For eating? KOFMAN: For eating and reading, gossiping, seeing what was going on. GORODEZKY: And the Gentiles enjoyed it too. KOFMAN: They did? GORODEZKY: The goyim were there. Believe me. It wasn't at all exclusive or majority Yiddish people. Then Morris later opened up, after Sam had got out of the business, Morris opened up on Roosevelt, about the 300 block west, but it didn't last too long, couldn't draw that lunch crowd. But it was good food. KOFMAN: Do you remember the Flame Restaurant? GORODEZKY: Yes. I remember the Grand. KOFMAN: I don't remember the Grand. Tell me about the Grand. GORODEZKY: Well, the Grand was a grand place. Stamotus (?) owned it; Sam Stamotus I think was his name. And it was the place if you were going out. KOFMAN: Where was it? GORODEZKY: On Adams between Central and lst Avenue on the north side of the street. Do you remember Switzers? KOFMAN: Yes. GORODEZKY: They were at 1st Avenue and Adams, they were just a door or two east of Switzers -- was it Switzers, or Gibbons? It may have been Gibbons because -- do you remember Harry Rabinowitz? KOFMAN: Yes. GORODEZKY: Well, Harry Rabinowitz worked for him. Anyway, the Grand was right close by -- the Flame was succeeded from the Grand and that was people from Superior, Michigan where they bought it out and were there for quite some time. I remember the Grand was the place to go. KOFMAN: Why? Was it the only restaurant or was there something special about it? GORODEZKY: Well, it was a good restaurant and we didn't have too many eating houses. It was just an attractive place and people liked it, and good food. We're talking not about 100,000 people, we're talking maybe 40 or 50. Of course as we grew we got more restaurants. We'd get more competition from other places. KOFMAN: Did Phoenix seem to be like a hick type of town because of its being a young community? GORODEZKY: Well, I don't think it was a hick town. I wouldn't say so. You had a lot of nice people; there were a lot of bums as in any town. I mean, not necessarily bum classification, but like anything, you've got your upper and lower strata. I think it's a very good town and basically a cosmopolitan city. KOFMAN: Were you at all active in the formation of, say, the Jewish Community Council, or any of those things? GORODEZKY: No, I was on them but not very active. I was there about two or three years. I fell out with them. KOFMAN: You did? Can you tell me about that on the tape? I would like to hear it. GORODEZKY: I would, because [unintelligible). Yesterday, I think we got the Phoenix Jewish News? Did you see it? KOFMAN: I haven't read it yet, no. GORODEZKY: Well, the first page and second page, particularly the second page, have gobs of names. It started with those that gave $50,000 or more and went down. I don't mean to be unkind In present company but I don't like it. I think it's an insult to charity. Give what you want to but don't get published. Now, what little I gave I used to give anonymously and I kicked at those meetings. But, look, you can't win everything. KOFMAN: No, you can't. I know there's two schools of philosophy on that. GORODEZKY: I think it should come from the heart. KOFMAN: Did they always do that or was there a time when they started publishing the names of those who had given? GORODEZKY: They more or less did it, as far as I'm concerned, a long time ago. The Community Chest did that once when a Dr. Somebody was the chairman. But that was the last year they did it. KOFMAN: First and last, huh? GORODEZKY: It was the first and last. There was a hue and cry. charity should be from the heart, not for publication. That's my own personal opinion. KOFMAN: I agree with you. Let me ask you. can you describe the personalities of some of these Jewish men that you knew that have become very legendary in the Jewish community, such as Charlie Korrick or Abe Korrick. GORODEZKY: And Herman Lewkowitz. KOFMAN: Herman Lewkowitz, Harry and Newton Rosenzweig's father. If I could I'd like to just ask you, can you describe the Korrick brothers to me, what they were like, their personalities. GORODEZKY: A day and night difference, both fine gentlemen but Charlie was the more warm, an easy disposition, more out in the public than Abe. Abe was a harum-scarum thing. Both wonderful people - don't misunderstand me, but he was just business, business, business all the time; very seldom did I ever see him at an activity or affair or any meetings. If you went to his desk and office and looked one day and he had about a two foot stack of bill of ladings, freight bills that had to be checked before they were paid, and things of that nature. He was closer to the business and Charlie the more public relation man. KOFMAN: How about Mr. Rosenzweig, Isaac? GORODEZKY: He's one that I'd sit in the back of the temple because there wasn't anything left in the front seats and he would come in, a very erect man, kind of -- not stout, but tall -- and as he went down the aisle I looked at his head of hair and I said, "Eli, there's your head someday." And sure enough it did. But I thought, I'm going to be like him some day. He was a very fine, quiet man, nice, soft-spoken, and a very fine gentleman. KOFMAN: Tell me about Herman Lewkowitz. GORODEZKY: Strong headed, held do what he wanted when he wanted. Very fine, and he always did get along with everybody, but he was a personality, and he was well respected. He had the interest of the community at heart. of course, you can't please everybody, but by in large he was a very fine gentleman and very much interested in the temple. Oh, there was good fights between people at the temple. KOFMAN: There was? GORODEZKY: Oh, yes. KOFMAN: Can you tell me about any of them? GORODEZKY: Well, I can't remember now. KOFMAN: Some of them axe pretty old fights. GORODEZKY: Yes, I can't tell you. KOFMAN: Did you know Barnett Marks? GORODEZKY: Very fine gentlemen too, yes. He and his wife are fine people. Harold, or was It Royal ... ? KOFMAN: Royal. GORODEZKY: Royal. I said Harold once but I was wrong. Royal had quite a few of his mementos and he was a great guy. He always answered a telephone, "This Is Bernard Marks speaking." I just loved when he would do It. He was very fine and their mother was a beautiful lady. KOFMAN: That was Mrs. Marks - I don't remember her name. How was she beautiful? GORODEZKY: Active In the temple. Oh, then we had Funks. They were jewelry people. They were one of the initial people in the temple. KOFMAN: How about the Diamond family? GORODEZKY: There was Ike and Abe. I think Abe Diamond (unintelligible] - - ike, yeah. Very fine. of course, Harold comes in later in the picture, also of great temperament. Then you had Zeitlins, in the produce business. I worked for them once. KOFMAN: Did you? What did you do? GORODEZKY: In the summer. I was way up in the loft helping out on bookkeeping when I was still in high school. I worked there one summer, about two or three times a week. KOFMAN: Must have been hot up in the loft. GORODEZKY: It was. And then we had a man by the name of Friedman, did I mention him? KOFMAN: You told me a little bit about him but not a lot. GORODEZKY: He was a nice gentlemen in real estate and insurance; never married, to my knowledge. But he would be active in -- KOFMAN: Do you remember his first name at all? Was it Morris? GORODEZKY: I can't tell you for sure. Of course, we talked about Mecklers, didn't we? KOFMAN: A little bit. GORODEZKY: Well, they were two brothers in the business, if memory serves me right; Morris Meckler and I can't think of the other one's name. They had a store next to George Holtz, H-o-l-t-z, a haberdashery on Washington, south side, second store going east, and Meckler's was right next to them. KOFMAN: Did most of them close their stores up on the Jewish holidays? GORODEZKY: Yes. KOFMAN: They did. GORODEZKY: And advertise in the paper. KOFMAN: That they would be closed? GORODEZKY: Yes. KOFMAN: Several of the people I've talked to I ask, not because I'm looking to find it, but basically because I'm touched by what seems to be a lack of anti-Semitism ever really surfacing in Phoenix. People that have lived here for years and years and years always say that they never encountered much anti-Semitism, if any, In all the years they grew up in Phoenix. That's really a nice thing to know. GORODEZKY: I think that's true. Oh, we had little flare-ups but basically no. Well, you might think in terms of a city that grew and we co-mingled and you knew people. It grew and when people come they adopted what we got. It's hard to explain but that's a good point and I think it's very true. KOFMAN: Well, I think maybe I'll let you go now and I want thank you for spending your time with me. GORODEZKY: Well, I'm happy to. KOFMAN: I've enjoyed listening to everything and if you think of anything else -- GORODEZKY: Well, nothing that I can think of. I know Phoenix was a great place. KOFMAN: I agree. I too grew up here. So I want to thank you very much for letting me come and talk to you today. GORODEZKY: I'm honored. KOFMAN: No, the honor Is ours, believe me, and it's a personal honor I've enjoyed Immensely, hearing what you have to say. GORODEZKY: There's a lot of things that if I took time to write notes -- I tried to do it and I thought, oh hell, I'll do it extemporaneously. KOFMAN: Well, I'll tell you a secret. There's no law that says I can't come back a second time. So. you take notes and give me a call and that's what we'll do. And thanks again. [end of transcript]