..inte: Raye Freed ..intr: Eve Hubschman ..da: 1998 ..ca: ..ftxt: An Interview with Raye Freed October 28, 1998 Interviewer: Eve Hubschman Transcriptionist: Carol Ruttan Log for Raye Freed Interview Page 1 Family of origin Nat/Rebecca Levin 1- 3 Came to Phoenix 1943 with help from Selective Arthur McNamara Service of Canada 3- 4 Helped distribute money to needy Jews Rabbi Krohn 4 Secretary at USO through the United Jewish George Pizer Welfare Fund Albert Wagner 5 Worked in insurance and real estate Dean Davidson 5 Jewish Social Services Florence Frank Head of Jewish Community Center Mr. Kaplan 6- 7 Married twice Robert Biegel Sam Freed 7- 8 Involvement in Jewish organizations 8 Social life in Jewish community 9 First president of Hadassah Rose Hoffman 10 Jewish community in early Phoenix 10-11 Anti-semitism in Phoenix 11-12 Current life 12-13 Jewish Social Services brought people from Europe 13 Anti-semitism; Anti-Defamation League 15 Worked at Sky Harbor Airport 17 Married second husband Rabbi Schectman Raye Freed Interview HUBSCHMAN: My name is Eve Hubschman. Today is October 28, 1998 on Wednesday and I'm sitting with Raye Freed in her apartment at Chris Ridge Village and a beautiful apartment it is, too - beautifully decorated - and we're going to do an interview for the Arizona Jewish Historical Society. FREED: My name is Raye Freed and I was born in Winnipeg, Canada. I don't like to divulge my age, but I'll have to. I was born October 7, 1906. I was the baby in the family, so I lost all my immediate family when I came here. HUBSCHMAN: Who were the members of your family? FREED: I had four sisters and four brothers and my mother and father. HUBSCHMAN: What did your family do in Canada? FREED: My father was a representative for the Jewish Daily Forward from New York - if you've heard of it. He had 720 subscribers, which was very good in those days. I was about 15 at the time, I think. I was going to school, I graduated from high school, then I went into college and I graduated from college. HUBSCHMAN: Which college did you go to? FREED: St. John's Technical High School was the high school. The University of Manitoba was in Winnipeg. HUBSCHMAN: What were the names of your sisters and brothers? How many did you have? FREED: My mother's name was Rebecca. My father's name was Nat. My sisters' names were Rose, Ethyl, Jenny and Kate. HUBSCHMAN: What was their last name? Was it Freed? FREED: The couple that were married - HUBSCHMAN: I mean, what was your father's name? FREED: Levin, L-e-v-i-n. HUBSCHMAN: And his first name? FREED: Nat. HUBSCHMAN: Nat Levin. And your mother's name? FREED: Rebecca. HUBSCHMAN: Rebecca Levin. And when did you come to Arizona? FREED: I came to Arizona March 11, 1943. HUBSCHMAN: You came from Canada? FREED: Yes. HUBSCHMAN: And why did you come? FREED: To get away from the cold - it's awfully cold there. HUBSCHMAN: And you were the only one? FREED: Yes. HUBSCHMAN: You came here alone? FREED: I had a girlfriend who lived here and my brother-in-law had a brother who was an asthmatic who used to come here for the winters. I saw that and I stayed with my girlfriend. HUBSCHMAN: Was your family observant of the Jewish - FREED: Oh, yes. HUBSCHMAN: What language did they speak? FREED: Not very well. My mother didn't speak English at all. My father spoke poorly, but enough to get by. HUBSCHMAN: What was the language at home? FREED: Yiddish, but I spoke English. HUBSCHMAN: Where did your mother and family come from? FREED: From Russia. From Minsk. HUBSCHMAN: Were all the children born in Canada? FREED: No, some were born in Russia. HUBSCHMAN: Do you know what year your mother and father came here? FREED: I really think I don't know. HUBSCHMAN: So, you came here alone. Where did you come to in Arizona? FREED: I came to Phoenix. HUBSCHMAN: That was in - FREED: 1943. HUBSCHMAN: That was during the war. FREED: I had a hard time getting here. But, I used to work in Winnipeg, for the International Ladies Garment Worker's Union, if you've heard of them. Every time they had to have another agreement I used to sit in on them in the Parliament building. So, I came to know Arthur McNamara very well. When the war started he became the Director of National Selective Service. When I decided I'd like to come here, I wrote him a letter, asked him if he remembered me and what he could do for me. I told him I had asthma - which I didn't, of course - and the weather was very good - I had been here on a visit. I asked him, I would do anything if he could make it possible for me to live here. So, he wrote me back and said, "Yes, I remember you very well. And I will do everything I can." Now, three days later I get an airmail letter telling me to go to National Selective Service and get my labor exit permit - HUBSCHMAN: That was National Selective Service of Canada? FREED: Yes. You see, you were not allowed to go from province to province, not even from job to job, because we were already in the war. We entered the war in September. HUBSCHMAN: What was your function at the labor relations' meetings? FREED: I was the secretary to the organizer. HUBSCHMAN: So, that was how you happened to meet McNamara then. And he was the head of the Selective Service of Canada? FREED: Yes. HUBSCHMAN: Okay. So, how did you get to Phoenix? FREED: It took me five days. I left Winnipeg with two fur coats. I got to St. Paul and we missed the train, so I had to sleep over in St. Paul. From St. Paul I went to Kansas City. From Kansas City I came here. HUBSCHMAN: It's kind of hard to get trains there at that time. FREED: Five days it took me to get here. HUBSCHMAN: When you got here, then, what did you do? FREED: Nothing. I couldn't work for awhile. I just relaxed and had a good time. HUBSCHMAN: Then, finally, what did you decide to do? FREED: I decided to go do something - go to work. I met Rabbi Krohn and asked him if he had anything for me and he did. He had this girl - woman, rather - by the name of Rosalie - I can't remember her other name - and he gave her a tin box with money in it and she took care of the money. If anybody needed any help they would call her, then the rabbi would call me and I would go over there and get the money and ask the man to come over and pick it up. HUBSCHMAN: Now, anybody means any Jew. FREED: Oh, absolutely. HUBSCHMAN: Any Jew who was in the community. FREED: Yes. HUBSCHMAN: How long did you do that and at what point did you get - FREED: In 1944 a Mr. George Pizer was sent from Milwaukee to organize the United Jewish Welfare Fund here. I met him and I became his secretary. So, besides doing that, I was still handing out money - until they decided to do away with that. HUBSCHMAN: With what, the money box? FREED: Yes, the money box. I don't know how the other people got the money afterwards, because I was working for the USO within the National Jewish Welfare Fund. The USO was part of the Welfare Fund. I used to take care of the boys when they used to come in from the field. I would let them use the phone and not charge them. The Gentile people would charge them for every phone call they made. On Friday nights I would call up some Jewish families and ask them if they would take someone for Shabbat dinner. And they did. HUBSCHMAN: Now, this was a paid job? FREED: Yes. This was a paid job. HUBSCHMAN: They worked for Rabbi Krohn - was that also a paid job? FREED: Well, rabbi - I don't know how he was paid. HUBSCHMAN: No, I mean for you. FREED: I didn't work for Rabbi Krohn - I worked for the USO. HUBSCHMAN: Even while you were handing out the money. FREED: I was still doing it until they did away with it. Then I worked with George Pizer. He was a doll - a very nice man. HUBSCHMAN: How do you spell Pizer?: FREED: I think it's P-i-z-e-r. I was still with him in 1945 because that was the time that Drozo(?) was killed. Then, he was transferred to San Francisco and a man by the name of, I think, Albert Wagner. He took over and he let me go and put his wife in my place. So, I was out of a job. Luckily, I could do insurance and real estate, so I went to work for Dean Davidson. HUBSCHMAN: Was he insurance or - FREED: He was in business - insurance and real estate. So, I went to work for him. I worked for him for three years. Then I left and I substituted for girls who went on vacation in real estate and insurance. I would substitute for them. So, I was working for somebody from time to time. Then, in 1951 - no a little before that - a couple of weeks before that - I heard that Florence Frank needed a secretary, so I called her. HUBSCHMAN: Who was she? FREED: She was a caseworker, a social worker. HUBSCHMAN: With who? FREED: With Jewish Social Service. HUBSCHMAN: Was that the same organization as the one you had been working for with Pizer? FREED: No. The other was the United Jewish Welfare Fund. HUBSCHMAN: And that was not the same as the Frank - FREED: No. Frank was working for the Jewish Social Service. HUBSCHMAN: And that was separate from the other? FREED: Absolutely different. HUBSCHMAN: Okay. FREED: I called her and she interviewed me and she was satisfied. I was to come into work on January 1, 1951. She wasn't very fortunate, because Sunday night she fell in a hole in her yard and she fractured her ankle, so I had to stay in the office by myself. I didn't know what was going on, so I used to call Mr. Kaplan all the time. HUBSCHMAN: Who was Mr. Kaplan? FREED: Mr. Kaplan was the head of the Jewish Community Center. He was the head of all the organizations. So, I'd call him and he would tell me what to do. That was when I was still giving out money. HUBSCHMAN: You were still giving out money from Rabbi Krohn? FREED: Yes. I don't know whether he was dead yet or not. No, he wasn't dead, because when I worked for Florence we used to have board meetings once a month and all the rabbis used to come. There were three rabbis here. There was Rabbi Krohn, Rabbi - gee, he married me and I don't remember. It's so long ago. It's over 50 years. And I don't know who the third rabbi was, but there were three. I worked for Florence till May of '54 and then I remarried. HUBSCHMAN: What do you mean, you remarried? FREED: I had been divorced and remarried. HUBSCHMAN: Where were you married first? FREED: Here. HUBSCHMAN: Before that you were married? When were you married first? FREED: Here in Phoenix. HUBSCHMAN: What year was that? FREED: 1944. HUBSCHMAN: Who was your husband? FREED: My husband was more or less a bookkeeper. Have you heard of the Home Silk Shop? HUBSCHMAN: No, but I'm a newcomer. FREED: Well, he was their bookkeeper and he used to take care of all their stock as it came in. That didn't work out so well. We got a divorce. HUBSCHMAN: What year was that? FREED: In '57 I got my divorce, and then I remarried in '63. At that time I was working for the Arizona Department of Aeronautics at the airport. I had every conceivable job you could think of. I had worked there for six years and I never got an increase, so I left. While I was working I was still involved with the stock market. After I left them I really became involved. HUBSCHMAN: You mean you worked with a stockbroker? FREED: On my own. I got a broker and started buying stocks. HUBSCHMAN: Tell me about your husband - what was his name and what did he do? FREED: My first husband was Robert Biegel and he was vice president of Beth El Synagogue. HUBSCHMAN: How do you spell Biegel? FREED: B-i-e-g-e-l. Of course, I expected to be active, so before I even paid my dues to Sisterhood I brought in five members. I used to like to be busy and I was very active in any organization I belonged to. Then, in '54, is when I got married the second time. HUBSCHMAN: '54 you got married the second time, or '63? FREED: No, '63 is when I quit working for - and '54 was the second time. I was only married for four years for the first time. It was a short marriage. So, I got married in '54, May 4, 1954, and I kept on working. HUBSCHMAN: What was your second husband's name? FREED: Sam Freed. HUBSCHMAN: What did he do? FREED: He did the work that I gave to my first husband - I got confused. He did the bookkeeping and checking in all the materials that came in. He was practically the assistant to the manager. We were married for 18 years and then he got sick. He got his stroke. So, I had to put him in a nursing home because I couldn't take care of him. He was a diabetic besides. And I had retired. I retired in '63, but I left the state department because they weren't treating me right. I stayed home and I worked with the market. Then, naturally, Florence came back after a week I was there. We got along fine. I worked for her from January 1, 1951 to May 4, 1954. This is going to be a little bungled, I can see. HUBSCHMAN: That's okay. We'll figure it out. Tell me a little bit about how you conducted your family. Did you have an observant household when you married? Were you observing the Jewish - FREED: Oh, yes, we went to services every Friday night. HUBSCHMAN: And you were a member of Beth El? FREED: Well, my husband at that time was vice president. HUBSCHMAN: So, it was your second husband who was vice president? FREED: No, the first husband. HUBSCHMAN: Oh, the first husband was vice president. And you kept a kosher house? FREED: Yes. You see, his first wife died and they were kosher. And I kept on with it. HUBSCHMAN: How about your second - FREED: No, we didn't. We went to services and we belonged to Beth Israel Temple, but I didn't observe anything. HUBSCHMAN: And you belonged to some Jewish organizations? FREED: I belonged to B'nai B'rith and I was very active there. I belonged to Hadassah and I was very active there. Those were the two. Now, I belong to CARIH. I'm a charter member of CARIH. HUBSCHMAN: When you came here, Beth El and Beth Israel were both functioning? FREED: Yes. Beth El had a little house on Fourth Avenue and Fillmore and benches to sit on. Beth Israel had a two-story wooden structure on Second Avenue and Culver. Of course, they had a bigger membership. HUBSCHMAN: Beth Israel had? FREED: Yes. And at that time, I think, Rabbi Krohn was head of it. Little by little they started making affairs, accumulating money and building a little here and a little there. Beth El moved to Third Avenue and McDowell. Beth Israel moved to 10th Avenue and Flower. HUBSCHMAN: And you were members of? FREED: After I got my divorce I was no longer a member of Beth El. I became a member of Beth Israel. HUBSCHMAN: Now, what kind of social life was there in the Jewish community? FREED: Very nice social life. They had a lot of affairs, nice affairs, dances, socials. It was really very nice - I loved it here. HUBSCHMAN: Never regretted - FREED: No, I don't regret it, but then I can't turn time back. HUBSCHMAN: No, I mean coming from Winnipeg. FREED: Oh, no, that I didn't regret at all. I was very happy. HUBSCHMAN: Did any of your family members later - FREED: They came to visit me, but not to stay, because they were all in business. HUBSCHMAN: And they were all kosher and observant to Winnipeg? FREED: No, they were not. HUBSCHMAN: Your sisters and brothers. FREED: No, they were not. I was the only one - my mother and I. HUBSCHMAN: But your mother and father were. FREED: My father was not religious. He was in Europe, but he changed when he came to Canada. My mother remained religious and I did. We were the only two. HUBSCHMAN: But then when you married a second time. FREED: Well, I didn't observe the Kashruth, but I was still religious. That's when we belonged to Temple Beth Israel. HUBSCHMAN: Was the activity of Hadassah and B'nai Brith - you said you were active in those - who were the leaders at that time? FREED: The leaders of the temple? HUBSCHMAN: No - oh, well, of the temple - and Hadassah. Do you remember the names of any of those people? FREED: The only thing I remember was Hadassah was formed in 1947 and Rose Hoffman was the first president. Beth Israel I don't know. HUBSCHMAN: And you were active in both B'nai B'rith and Hadassah. FREED: Very much so. HUBSCHMAN: Were the Jews active in the general community - not only in the Jewish community - in the political, civic, philanthropic, cultural affairs of the city at that time? FREED: Not very much. That came later. They organized a Jewish museum and they had a nice library, but this was little by little. HUBSCHMAN: But, I mean, how about the Jews who were active in the secular community - politically, not only in the Jewish community, but in the overall city of Phoenix? Did you know any of those people? Were there Jews active in - FREED: No, because I wasn't really interested politically. HUBSCHMAN: What was Phoenix like when you got here? The war was still on. FREED: Phoenix was wonderful. You could take a sun bath in 118 degrees and you wouldn't even feel it. The city was very clean and everything was so white. They didn't have all these pools, so there was not any humidity. It was just wonderful. I just loved it. I left home in a snowstorm and I came here in March and sat on the grass in Encanto Park. So, you can see the difference of five days. HUBSCHMAN: And at that time there was no air conditioning. FREED: No. They had blowers in the window and it blew you to kingdom come. It was kind of rough, because you perspired a lot. HUBSCHMAN: Did you have any non-Jewish friends? FREED: Yes, one. HUBSCHMAN: But, generally, did you socialize with the Gentiles? FREED: No. HUBSCHMAN: So, your social life was all around the Jewish community? FREED: Yes. There was a lovely Jewish community - very, very fine people. HUBSCHMAN: Was there any particularly that you remember about Phoenix in those days that was interesting or funny or - FREED: All I can remember in those days was that I had a wonderful time, I enjoyed everything, I was very active and I enjoyed my life here. HUBSCHMAN: When did your husband die? FREED: He died ten years ago. HUBSCHMAN: When did you come into Chris Ridge? FREED: Seven years ago. I lived in our house for three years after and then I thought it was time to leave. So, I sold the house and came here, because I already knew some people here. HUBSCHMAN: During those years you lived here, did you encounter anti-Semitism? FREED: Yes. I lost two jobs that way. I didn't get the jobs on account of that. HUBSCHMAN: Tell me about those. FREED: One was a dentist. He interviewed me and everything seemed fine. He gave me the hours that I'd be working and the money and then he said to me, "What church do you go to?". I said, "Well, I don't go to church, because I have so many things to do during the week that I don't have time to go to church." He says to me, "You're Jewish, aren't you?" and I said, "Yes." That was it - one of them. HUBSCHMAN: When was that? FREED: That was when I first came. HUBSCHMAN: And the other anti-Semitic - FREED: That was a state automobile insurance company. I felt that I was knowledgeable in the insurance law and would try getting a job that way. I filled out a form and at that time my name was Levin, so he looked at it and he said, "Levin, Levin." And he says to me, "I have one more person to interview and we'll see what happens. I'll let you know." So, I knew when I left that the job wasn't mine. He called me on Monday and said, "I'm sorry, but the other girl was a little more qualified than you were." So, I says, "Don't be sorry, because you did me a favor. After I left your office I had one more interview, so I went there. They interviewed me, they accepted me and I'm starting to work. So, you did me a favor." I wasn't going to give him the satisfaction. HUBSCHMAN: Was it true? Did you really have another job? FREED: Yes. HUBSCHMAN: Very good. FREED: I wasn't going to give him the satisfaction. HUBSCHMAN: Over the years, did you encounter any other anti-Semitic incidents? FREED: Well, of course. In later times they would paint swastikas on the temple. HUBSCHMAN: But, personally. FREED: Personally, no. HUBSCHMAN: What do you think of Phoenix now? FREED: Not as much as I did in the beginning. First of all, I had my husband and we used to go places and we had couples, friends, we played cards. We had a wonderful time. Then, about three years ago I had an accident - in the house, not in the car. I fell and broke my pelvic bone. So, I was in a wheelchair for two and a half months. After that the doctor wouldn't let me drive anymore. It's now three years that I haven't been driving and I miss it very much. It's one of the things that I miss very much. There are some men here but they're not very - I wouldn't say friendly - but if you asked them if they'd do you a favor and take you up, say, to the drug store - they wouldn't do it. The men here were not very sociable. HUBSCHMAN: Generally speaking, are you happy to be here? FREED: Yes and no. I have no other alternative. No matter where you go you find the same thing. I'm no youngster, but I'm old/young, let's say. I'm not like some of the other people. These people get up early, have breakfast, come down for lunch at 11:30, come down for dinner at 3:00, then go upstairs. By 7:00, 8:00 there's no one in the plaza. So, I have to stay in my room most of the time. That's the part that I'm unhappy about. HUBSCHMAN: Did you ever have any children? FREED: No. I have stepchildren. HUBSCHMAN: Do you have any other relatives? FREED: Yes. I have a nephew in Riverside. I have oodles of nieces and nephews, a niece in Vancouver, a niece in New York. I have them all over and, of course, there's still some left in Winnipeg. They're very nice to me. They'll call and occasionally they'll come and visit me. HUBSCHMAN: Are you now a member of any congregation? FREED: No, not now. First of all, I have no way of getting there. HUBSCHMAN: They don't take you from here? FREED: They'll take you from here, but Beth El takes you at 8:00 in the morning. I'm just getting out of bed. Then, Beth Israel - when my husband passed away there was no interest for me to go by myself, even though I was driving. I just didn't feel like going. HUBSCHMAN: What other part of your life do you think would have some particular interest for the Jewish community? You worked for the Jewish Social Services. FREED: Yes. I worked there from January 1, 1951 to May 4, 1954. HUBSCHMAN: What was their role? What did they do? FREED: Florence Frank was the - HUBSCHMAN: Social worker? FREED: Yes, she was a social worker. Naturally, she'd be out all day in the field interviewing people. We'd have people coming in. We also did placing babies. We did that, too. Also, we organized an organization bringing over people from Europe and we did a very good job with them. They were very good - they were not lazy - they worked - and they made quite a nice life for themselves. HUBSCHMAN: Where in Europe did these people come from? FREED: I don't know if they were Russians or Polish. HUBSCHMAN: This was after the war? FREED: Oh yes, it was in '51. We started bringing them over here. HUBSCHMAN: They may have still been coming out of refugee camps. What was the feeling during the war here toward the Jews? FREED: Not a very good one. There was a lot of anti-Semitism. HUBSCHMAN: There was? FREED: Oh, yes. There were sometimes letters sent out - HUBSCHMAN: Letters to who? FREED: To the Jewish people, accusing them of this and that. They didn't believe there was a Holocaust. Wherever they were they painted buildings with red paint with the swastika on it. HUBSCHMAN: There was a lot of that? FREED: Quite a bit. HUBSCHMAN: What steps did the Jewish community take? FREED: That was part of the B'nai B'rith - HUBSCHMAN: Anti-Defamation League? FREED: The Anti-Defamation League - thanks for helping me. They used to come out. They did a lot of work on that. HUBSCHMAN: Now all of this is under the Federation. Now, your first job you said had nothing to do with the social work. FREED: No. Well, I was handing out money, that's all. HUBSCHMAN: I mean the first paid job you had. FREED: The first paid job was when I worked for the USO. HUBSCHMAN: But, then afterwards you worked for Mr. Pizer. FREED: No. We both had the same office, but I didn't work for him. He organized the United Jewish Welfare Fund, and I was with the USO within the United Jewish Welfare Fund. HUBSCHMAN: But you said that had nothing to do with the social services. FREED: At that time, no. HUBSCHMAN: So, when did they all get together? FREED: Well, Mr. Pizer was transferred and this other man came in - HUBSCHMAN: Mr. Wagner. FREED: So, I completely left. I was not interested anymore. HUBSCHMAN: So, you don't know when they all came under the wing of the Federation. FREED: I have no idea what they did. If they could have done that to me, and the boys were so nice - they wrote a letter to Mr. Pizer in San Francisco trying to get me back my job. HUBSCHMAN: Who were the boys? FREED: The boys were from the field that used to come in - the servicemen, because I was very nice to them. I let them use the phone. One of them who was very religious used to come in on Friday night. One day I was looking through a magazine and I saw a blouse there. He said, "What are you looking at?" I said, "I'm looking for a blouse." He says, "Don't make a blouse. My mother will make one for you." I said, "She doesn't have to do that ." Well, she did. She made a blouse and sent it to me, but it was rather an old-fashioned type of blouse, but the idea was there and it was very nice. So, the boys were very nice to me and I was very nice to them. They used to bring me stuff from the commissary that you couldn't get, like butter - I didn't smoke so I didn't need cigarettes - but, Kleenex and a whole bunch of stuff. I always had everything in the house - and nylons. And I had coupons for gas. HUBSCHMAN: Did you have any contact with the Jewish chaplain? Was there a Jewish chaplain? FREED: I think there was, but I can't remember who he was. No, I had no contact with him. HUBSCHMAN: After you left Frank - is it Florence Frank? FREED: Yes. HUBSCHMAN: Then you went to work for the State of Arizona? FREED: Yes. HUBSCHMAN: How about there? How did people treat you there? FREED: Well, I had an Italian - he was the head of this part of the organization - and I was Jewish. We got along very well. But, there was one man on the board- HUBSCHMAN: Board of what? FREED: On the board of this organization. He was trying to get me out. He always used to say to Jim - who was my boss - we used to call each other by first names - he'd say, "I have a secretary for you." So, Jim would say, "I am perfectly satisfied with Raye." He had his comeuppance, because he was killed in a plane crash. That's what he got. HUBSCHMAN: But that was a state organization. FREED: Yes, that was the State of Arizona. HUBSCHMAN: So, there was anti-Semitism in the state agencies? FREED: I really couldn't tell, because I worked at the airport. HUBSCHMAN: At Sky Harbor? FREED: Yes. I worked at the air park - the first building that was put up. Then they put on two and three and four and the knocked down number one. But I worked at the first building that they had. I had no contact with the state department, because they were on 18th Avenue and Washington. I became friends with an Italian girl and we were very, very friendly for a long time. I didn't find any anti-Semitism there. HUBSCHMAN: This Italian girl - you were just friendly at work or did you socialize? FREED: No. We used to go out together - she and her husband, my husband and I. We used to visit her place and they would visit our home. As a matter of fact, when I was packing to leave here, she and her husband came over and did most of the packing for me. They were very nice. HUBSCHMAN: Are you still in touch with them? FREED: I was for awhile. Now, I lost their phone number and I haven't heard from them. She's not very good at phoning - I used to do most of the phoning. So, I'll have to look up in the phone book and call her again. But, I've seen her since I've been here. HUBSCHMAN: How about here at Chris Ridge - I know there are lots of Jewish people here? FREED: I somehow can't seem to get close to them. When I first came here there was a group of Jewish people - 10 - that stuck together, men and women. On Sunday morning they'd have coffee upstairs and we'd all go up there and have coffee and schmooze for an hour. We had a very nice relationship. And all these people are gone. These people that came in I don't take to too much - I don't know why. First of all - I shouldn't say this, but I'm going to say it anyway - I can't get along with New Yorkers. HUBSCHMAN: What's the matter with them? FREED: They're loud. I talk to them, of course, I wouldn't ignore them, but I can't become friendly with them. HUBSCHMAN: Are there many Jews living here? FREED: Quite a few. I don't know how many, but quite a few. HUBSCHMAN: And the general feeling here is one of friendliness and tolerance? FREED: Yes and no. As I say, after dinner they all go up to their apartments, but the people who sit together and eat together - the same every day - they get along and they get along with other people. On the whole, it's not bad. Even the Gentile people when they walk by, they say, "Hello, how are you?" I haven't found much anti-Semitism here. Not really. HUBSCHMAN: Is there anything that you remember especially as something that you would like to have remembered that we haven't touched upon? FREED: Well, the years that I spent with Florence Frank working for her were very nice, good years. Florence and I got along very well and, even after I left, we still saw each other. That was a nice part of my life. Also, the social part of my life when I was married to my first husband - he was in the floor covering business and he knew all the builders and everything else. We went to all these different parties. For the four years I was married to him I had a very lovely social life - I remember that. HUBSCHMAN: That's a nice memory. But you did get a divorce. That was not common in 1957 - divorce is not as common as it is today. FREED: No, it was not. HUBSCHMAN: Was it a divorce that was a civil divorce, or did you have a get? FREED: He wanted it, so I said, "You want it - pay for it." HUBSCHMAN: For the divorce? FREED: Yes. First we went to a judge here, and then he brought over a rabbi from Tucson with a different quill and different ink and I had to walk around the table seven times with the paper under my arm. I'll tell you - that was funny. But, he got his divorce and sometime later he remarried a woman that he knew from Detroit. HUBSCHMAN: When you were married, you were married in a religious ceremony? FREED: I was with my first one. My second one, yes, Rabbi Plotkin married us. HUBSCHMAN: Rabbi Plotkin married you the second time? FREED: Yes. HUBSCHMAN: And the first one? FREED: Rabbi Schectman. HUBSCHMAN: Schectman? FREED: Yes. HUBSCHMAN: So when you were divorced, you were divorced with a get? FREED: Yes. HUBSCHMAN: He wanted the divorce. FREED: We both wanted it. You see, he was much older than I was and I wasn't aware of that. He was very, very jealous. I couldn't talk to a man. He was always griping, he was always complaining that I wasn't home sewing buttons on things. That's what I should be doing. He'd say to my friend, "How can I do my work when I don't know what Raye's doing?" My friend's husband said, "Don't worry about Raye. She's okay. She's doing all right. " But, he didn't trust me somehow. I was very lively, and that's what he liked in me. But, when we got married he didn't like that anymore. So, I had to sit home. HUBSCHMAN: And you didn't like that very much. FREED: I didn't sit home. I had my car and I played mah jong - no problem. He was very good to me, though. He built a home for me, he furnished it and he had a girl come in every day to clean house for me. I said, "I don't want a girl every day. Once is enough." So, we let it go down to one. One day I went out for awhile and I came back and she's sitting there reading the paper. So, I let her go. I got in a woman once a week and she took care of it. HUBSCHMAN: Is there anything else that I've forgotten to mention or you've forgotten to tell me? FREED: I can't think of anything. I had several illnesses while I was here. I came here feeling perfectly fine and then things began to happen. Since I fell I'm not the same person anymore, because every time something else pops up - see, I fell flat on my face, so my whole body touched the floor. So, every part of my body must have been hurt. But, I manage. HUBSCHMAN: I think you manage very well. And it's very interesting. [end of transcript]