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Florence Frank

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Dorothy Pickelner

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1989

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Florence Frank, ca. 1960, founder of Jewish Social Service in Phoenix, 1940s

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An Interview

with

Florence Frank

February 20, 1989

Transcriber: Karen Hirsch 

Interviewer: Dorothy Pickelner

Arizona Jewish Historical Society

Log For

Florence Frank Interview

Pages

1 Coming to Phoenix in 1947. Educational and employment background;
becoming director of Jewish Social Service.

2 Background of the agency served during the years served as director;

transients, ill, nursing homes. Role of Bikkur Cholim. Tuberculars in
Sunnyslope. Destitute in Phoenix; where they were housed, including Rosson
House.

6-10 Fund raising for the agency. Physicians who donated care. Bikkur
Cholim raised money; particular men and women remembered projects they
supported.

10-12 Other social problems encountered. Role of Jewish Free Loan Society;
kinds of loans given.

12-13 Nursing homes in Sunnyslope; trip with Rabbi Krohn to visit area.

14-16 Story of Mr. Kivel and his contributions to aid poor and needy in
Phoenix; Provisions of his will to set up a home for the wayfarer.


	Florence Frank Interview

Pickelner: This is Dorothy Pickelner and I am interviewing Mrs. Florence 
Frank at my home. The date is February 20, 1989. And Mrs. Frank, would you 
tell us about how you came to Phoenix and what your background is?

Frank: I'm Florence Frank and I was born in Brooklyn, New York and I came
to Arizona in September of 1947, which was a year after my husband had 
passed away. I came to this community with my son, aged five, who was 
suffering with a sinus condition and it was suggested that we come
here to settle. Ah, I had not planned to go back into social work when I
came here, my training was at the University of Chicago, School of Social
Service Administration, and I had been in social work from the time of my
graduation in '29 until 1946.

Pickelner: You graduated from the University of Chicago, Social Work
School?

Frank: School of Social Service Administration. And ah, when I came to
Phoenix, I thought I would like to get into personnel work and ah, work,
began working at Diamonds, but in those days ah, one had to work up from
clerkship to get into the personnel field. However, I was there only a
month when ah, I was approached by Rabbi Abraham Krohn to consider taking a
position as director of Social Service, since the previous director had 
met a very tragic death.

Pickelner: Ah Florence, would you tell us a little about Your previous ...

Frank: The previous person was Cele Andres, and Cele had served for about
two years with the agency. She was married to a Doctor Andres, a
psychologist on the faculty at Arizona State University. And ah, Cele died
under very strange circumstances, and I don't think they were ever able to 
determine the direct cause of her death. And so, the community of course, 
was very, very, very upset about this situation and the position was open. 
The agency had been in existence for about three years, having been started 
by the Council of Jewish Women, and ah, they had no really formalized 
structure, at that time they did not have a board of directors. And ah, 
shortly after my coming to the agency, a board of directors was organized. 
I accepted the position and ah, was with the agency for about twelve to 
fourteen years.

Pickelner: Okay. Yes, thank you very much. Now tell us something about 
your background. Who -Were your parents?

Frank: My parents had first settled in Chicago, and ah, then moved on to
New York. My father came from Poland and my mother came from Poland. Ah, 
they went back to Chi ... sorry. Following my father's death when I was 
twelve years old, my mother returned to Chicago and she was a very active 
business woman having joined a group of men who had started a factory in 
New York. She had previously done their bookkeeping, and then when we went 
to Chicago, ah, opened a branch for them in Chicago and the company made 
record albums for the Victor Phonograph Machine. And ah, mother had a fac...
developed a plant, she had a hundred and fifty people employed. She was 
very successful, and ah, was one of the individuals who was written up in 
the trade journals in Chicago. And ah, mother's objective was to be sure 
and give her three children, who were orphaned, the best education that she 
could.

Pickelner: That's very interesting, Florence. Now what was the
situation that you found as far as family service was concerned when you
began the work after Rabbi Krohn's invitation? What kind of people were you
serving? And what was there here in Phoenix to help them?

Frank: Well the social services were not too well developed at that
time. There was the Family Service, which was an older agency. And then
there was the Salvation Army and ah, the, the bulk of the Work at Jewish 
family service in the early years was with the transients. Many of these 
transients, mostly men, came from the garment workers section in New York 
and were sent here on, under their auspices. They lived here on pensions, 
most of them came for their asthma and, of course, in the climate in those 
days, felt a great deal of relief and ah, few of them wanted to return back 
east to their families.

Pickelner: Florence, what were the specific Jewish agencies that you found
who could help you?

Frank: There were two groups, the Women's Bikkur Cholim and the Men's
Bikkur Cholim. The women dedicated themselves to visiting the homes of the
sick and also some of the rest homes. There were then no Jewish nursing
homes or rest homes in the area. But, and then, the Men's Bikkur Cholim
were interested in organizing some way of supplying food to the men and to
the inmates of both the prisons and the state hospital. Ah, they worked
very closely with me. In fact in those days I did not have a car and ah,
there was one gentleman, a Louis Wahl, who would pick me up and take me to
the areas outside of the city where most of the people would go to live.
And this was out in Sunnyslope which is in the northeast section of
Phoenix. Ah, it was called at the time "tent city ". People lived in either 
shacks or they set up tents and had their cots, wanting to get every minute 
out in the open air.

Pickelner: Those were tubercular?

Frank: Tubercular, and asthmatics. Of course they were not aware, 
nor were many people aware at that time, that being exposed to the sun was 
not good for the tubercular. That it only aggravated the growth of the germ. 
And ah, but they were very happy for the most part.

Pickelner: Um, Florence, um, weren't there many transients?

Frank: Oh yes.

Pickelner: Would you tell us that situation?

Frank: There were transients constantly coming here, certainly not in the 
same numbers that we know today of the homeless but they would immediately 
come to the Jewish agency. Destitute ... pardon? Or to the Jewish merchants 
who would then direct them to my office which was located downtown, in the 
downtown area of Phoenix. We were housed in a house that had been owned by 
the Heard family who are, who ... by the Heard family and the local agencies 
were housed there, such as the Catholic Social Service, the Family Service, 
the Blood Donors and the Visiting Nurse. And ah, we were then in what was 
almost considered the center of Phoenix. But the transients who came to me 
were completely destitute and the agency had to provide food and housing for 
them.

Pickelner: Where did you find housing for them?

Frank: Housing was done in, in local downtown establishments, so called,
put in quotes, "hotels".

Pickelner: Yes.

Frank: And ah, we would pay fifty cents a night for their-

Pickelner: Was that in the Rosson House?

Frank: In the Rosson House- and paid them fifty cents a night for each
person, each accommodation. However, with the changing scene in the downtown 
area, some of these hotels disappeared and I was forced to seek some other 
type of housing for them. So I went to the area which is now called Heritage 
Square and the Rosson House, which was only about two, three blocks from my 
office, ah, was occupied by an Italian family, and I was able to get them 
to make some arrangements for the housing of these men and ah, they let me 
have the top floor of the building and I purchased several cots for the 
transients whom I sent there.

Pickelner: Well, what eventually happened to these people? Did they move 
on?

Frank: They moved on, and they went on from here they'd go to Tucson, or 
they'd head for Denver or ah, if they were known in any other community, 
we had a social service exchange. If I thought that they were known to an 
agency back east, ah and the man was ill, I could communicate, and they 
would reimburse for the bus fare to return the individual to either Chicago 
or Minneapolis. But there weren't too many of these.

Pickelner: No. Then what about the destitute who lived here, what happened 
to them?

Frank: Well, for the destitute who lived here, there were very few families
at the time, but ah, they came to the agency and we supplied their food
needs and attempted, if it was possible, to get employment for the husband or
maybe the wife. However, the bulk of my service was for...the people with 
medical problems and in the community we had the following resources: the 
County Health Clinic, the County Hospital, Cancer Society, Society for 
Crippled Children, and the county rest homes. And the cost of their care 
there was usually defrayed by the county. Ah, however in order to get any 
type of assistance a residence was required of, for families, and so Since 
there was nothing available, the Jewish agency had to fulfill the needs that 
were not cared for by the public agencies.

Pickelner: How was the money raised?

Frank: The money was raised through the United Fund, it was
called the "Red Feather" in those days, and also by the Jewish community. So
a joint budget was worked out for the... to be defrayed by the "Red Feather"
and the United Jewish Appeal.

Pickelner: Florence, weren't there other medical costs that you had to
defray?

Frank: Yes, I had arranged a panel of Jewish physicians among them Doctor
Reichert, Doctor Markowitz, and Doctor Brooks and Doctor Karp for
dentistry, Doctor Singer, he did a great deal. None of the Jewish physicians 
ever turned down a request from our agency. When I needed a specialist, such 
as a doctor for an eye condition, or a skin condition, and if we did not 
have these available in the Jewish community, I was very graciously served 
through by Doctor Case for eyes, and a Doctor Rogers for skin, and also there
was a Doctor Green, a neurosurgeon, in one instance he actually performed 
some very complicated and expensive surgery for me. And then I had need in 
some instances for psychiatric referral, and in those days I used a Doctor 
Kurianic. And then for x-rays the Grunow Clinic would be very gracious. All I
needed to do was contact their office and explain the situation and the 
service was provided. And for such needs as surgical appliances, the brace 
shop then connected with the clinic at Good Samaritan Hospital would help 
and my most dependable organization for help with wheelchairs and braces and 
crutches was the Bikkur Cholim. They would run special parties to raise 
funds. The women were always having special affairs and they were dedicated 
to their efforts to raise the money. The men...

Pickelner: Who were some of the women?

Frank: Some of the women in the Bikkur Cholim were Goodkind, India
Goodkind, Zena Sobel, I cannot recall the name of another woman who would
house for me patients who had been discharged from the state hospital
who had no home to go to, and who did still need custodial care.

Pickelner: Weren't those problems with the state hospital people?

Frank: There were definitely. We didn't have too many Jewish patients, in
fact it was very difficult in many situations to ascertain how many Jewish
peoplem were inpatients either at the state hospital or in some of the 
nursing homes around the area. But ah, the Bikkur Cholim women, particularly 
Rita Chriss, would go to the state hospital and bring them gifts, find out 
when their birthdays were, and then often would take them to their home 
for the weekend. Mrs. Poleszetsky was also a very active person, The men 
would interest themselves in arranging to bring special foods for any of the 
special Jewish  holidays. Um, in fact, a Mr. Horowitz would prepare the 
gefilte fish himself, and I would accompany him to the hospital. Mr.
Wahl, the other active Bikkur Cholimite, would usually drive his car of
questionable vintage, with love and dedication in the service of
these less fortunate.

Pickelner: Yeah. Did you, or did they supply Passover food for these
people?

Frank: Oh definitely. We had, we had Passover food packages prepared for 
all of them. In fact, ah, there was an occasion when the men would attempt 
to have a Seder for the inmates. There may not have been more than three or 
four at one time, but they helped with this.

Pickelner: Yes. That's most interesting. Florence, would you tell us, didn't 
you also have a baby placement?

Frank: Yes, but I'd like to tell you a little bit more about what some of 
the Bikkur Cholim men did for the Passover. This was when the community- 
the Jewish community- had grown a little and we had maybe twenty-four or 
twenty-five families now resident in Phoenix who had come either for their 
own health or primarily for the health of asthmatic children. And the Bikkur 
Cholim men, two weeks before Passover, would begin to contact many of the 
merchants and one of the men, I don't recall who now, would give us his 
garage and the food, the eggs and vegetables and things of that nature, 
matzahs and wine, were stored in the garage, Ah, the day before Passover, a 
group of men and myself would then make up baskets for families. No one knew 
to whom they were going. I had the master list, and we numbered the baskets. 
Then, we would get a list of what the family needed in the way of meat 
products and I would go to Katz, the butcher, who would then fill the orders.

Pickelner: That was most wonderful. Now...

Frank: Then, in a large truck, I accompanied one of the men, I don't
recall who was driving then, and we would make the basket distribution
without anyone knowing who received anything because it was always the 
philosophy that a person should be helped but in the spirit of giving and 
nothing else.

Pickelner: Did the merchants generally, not just at holiday time but, who 
were the merchant groups in the city that helped you?

Frank: Well, the merchants in addition to the food people, I'm thinking of
people who would help me in supplying clothing. For example, I frequently
called on Phil Copland who had the, who had a wholesale dry goods
establishment and he would supply at either free or for a nominal fee such
things as hose, and ah, jeans, et cetera for families, and shirts, work
shirts. And then I went to, also Phil Ramras used to help when I needed
special items, ah toys, or other things for children. He generously donated. 
And I can say there are many whom I may have forgotten who were always 
willing and ready to help. I don't believe that I was ever turned down, 
even to the extent of getting for my refugee families whom I resettled, 
furniture from Mr. Joe Horwitz who had the- I've forgotten the name of the 
furniture company- but he was located down on Washington Street and would 
permit me to come in and pick out either used or new furniture to help. 
Later, some of these people served on the board at Jewish Family Service.

Pickelner: Florence, what other kinds of social problems did you meet in
your work?

Frank: Well as the Jewish community grew, the problems grew because then we
began having families. While we still had transients, and I believe we
still do in the community, there were many other problems, and they were
problems of families who because of lack of residence, could not be
referred for any type of state aid. However, in addition to their
presenting problems of an economic nature and a medical nature, they had
many problems of an emotional nature which were certainly not helped by
their having to make a readjustment to an entirely different type of life
than they had lived for the most part in the eastern communities. And
particularly lacking was the extended families. They came without the
support that they might have had emotionally or otherwise from parents or
from other relatives. They were really very much alone. And in the early
days, so many people who came had come primarily because they had physical
problems. They became very ingrown so it was very difficult for a person to
be assimilated into the community. People stood off a great deal 'cause
they were preoccupied with their own problems and strangely and oddly enough,
riot ready to reach out to help others. So that the agency was really the 
only support system that a lot of these people had. I was helped for example,
and this I'm going back to an economic, if a man showed the possibility, had 
some innovative ideas about a business and I felt that it would work, I would
refer him to another organization, the Jewish Free Loan Society, which was 
headed up, who would evaluate and give, and the men who belonged to his 
group, would then advise and review the plan, and then would loan the basic 
funds necessary to begin a business and they would not charge them because 
of the Jewish philosophy that you may not charge one of your own group, of 
the Jewish group. And these people became very successful. They went into a 
variety of businesses, small businesses, ice cream selling, which was pretty 
popular for many months, they would buy a little wagon and ride through the 
streets on the bicycle attached to the wagon or they would do sharpening
of knives, or they would go down, even in the downtown area, and do pencil
sharpening and a variety of things, sell pens, and they had the resources
where they could get these things. And they were simple businesses at first,
but later on, a little more complicated. Some of the other types of problems
were marriage counseling, or child-parent relationships. And really the
whole gamut of problems for which an agency is set up.

Pickelner: Florence ... I think we're almost at the end. Florence would you
tell us something of the pre-Kivel days. The conditions under which the
sick who needed care worked, and how you were, and Rabbi Krohn was involved
in that...

Frank: Well, Louis Wahl and myself used to go out into the nursing homes 
which were located either in the south side of Phoenix or North in the 
Sunnyslope areas. And what we found there were half human beings who were 
living under the most difficult situations. And we managed to find a few 
who admittedly were Jewish. Mr. Wahl and myself would go out with clothing 
for some of these people whom we knew and then following a bequest that was 
left to the Temple Israel, Rabbi Krohn, no Rabbi...-we would bring clothing 
to some of the men and there were only maybe two or three women we were able 
to locate. However we brought food, and for the holidays we would bring 
matzahs which was really a godsend to many of these people who lived in 
semi-starvation. These homes were run by the county. There were maybe in 
some homes ten to fifteen in a dormitory. No cooling system at all, in the 
very, very heat, one hundred and eighteen indoors during the summer months,
 and fly infested... And usually in the areas where the land was the least 
valuable and the general condition of the area was run down and rather 
forlorn and looked as though it wasn't fit for habitation. And frankly most 
of the places where they were living would have been condemned by any 
inspector. But in those days, they had no inspection, nor did they have any 
licensing for homes, even though most of these people were, quote, "charity 
patients". That reminded me very much of some of the rotten boroughs that one
would hear about in England and the terrible situations. And Rabbi Krohn 
had heard me speak of some of these situations and he asked if he might join 
me some day, and we loaded his car with trousers and shirts and headed out 
to visit some of the homes. He was appalled at what he found, and I'm sure 
that he had doubted my description as being almost inconceivable.

Pickelner: Uh huh... and did he publish anything about this, or did
he let it be known how bad things were?

Frank: Well, he may have spoken about it, but nothing was ever published. 
He spoke of it so that people made contributions in the way of clothing and 
things of this sort but one wanted more than ever just to take these poor 
people out and house them somewhere else but funds would not have permitted 
this.

Pickelner: Florence, these conditions you've described I well remember too,
but how did we ever manage to go from that to make a better Jewish community 
in regards to our poor and destitute in this state?

Frank: I will talk about the individual who I never dreamed would be
the person who would plan the idea, invent the idea of a nursing home in
the minds of the leaders of our community. This man used to come to the
Jewish Social Service each year around the end of December and hand me
a check for Five Thousand dollars telling me to hold it until March but it
was not to be kept for the agency unless I matched the sum. And if I
didn't, he would take the money back again.

Pickelner: Did you ever, were you ever able to match those funds?

Frank: No. I approached the Board and they thought the idea was preposterous, 
because they felt that we were getting funds through bona fide sources and 
there was noindividual who was going to do this. And so, at the end of March,
the beginning of March each year, I would return the money, which had been 
deposited in a special account and the account was called the "Kivel 
Account".

Pickelner: Oh, Kivel Account.

Frank: Yes.

Pickelner: Now, uh, would you ...

Frank: I will tell you now a little bit about how the idea came. Mr. Kivel
himself was living in rather poor circumstances only because he was so
dedicated to really helping others. He gave money very freely whenever I
asked him, and also would defray the costs of their food, or would contact 
some family that kept a kosher home, particularly the Gershmans, who had a 
boarding house, and he would very frequently place some of the transients 
there for me. And there were times when I would plan to the Gershmans to 
keep a few people in their home.

Pickelner: And they stayed at the Hershman home?

Frank: Home, yeah, which was below Roosevelt, on Second Avenue. They had a
large rambling house, and many, many rooms were available, and Mrs.
Gershman ...

Pickelner: Gershman ... G-E-R-S-H ...

Frank: Gershman, or Hershman. Then Mr. Kivel became quite ill and I 
frequently visited him and he asked me to try and arrange to get a caretaker 
for him. However his physician had wanted him to be hospitalized. He 
absolutely refused after one or two hospitalization periods to go back to 
the hospital. Ah, he insisted that the money, that it would cost, that he 
could send to Israel where he had a dependent sister and, or else he could 
help some poor people. He was not going to use the money for himself.

Pickelner: Whom did he really want the money for?

Frank: He wanted the money for the Jewish community and for the transients.

Pickelner: What was it called in Hebrew?

Frank: He wanted to have set up a Hachnasas Orchim, which is home for the
traveler. And he wanted it to be a strictly kosher home where the transient
who wanted kosher food could come. He tried to get a place near the Beth El
synagogue, but was not able to. However, um, despite the fact that
his three sons who came from California to try to get provisions made for
the better care of their father, he refused and insisted that I was
to find him a housekeeper which was not easy in those days. However the
Bikkur Cholim women helped me to find someone. And after his death, Mr.
Kivel left an instrument, in which he specified that we wanted the community 
to set up a home for the wayfarers, the Hachnasas Orchim, that would provide
for their needs and cater to their Orthodox um, needs. He left the sum of a 
hundred and twenty five thousand dollars which he specified was to be matched 
by an equal amount and named Temple Israel as the administrator as the group 
who were to follow through on his wishes. However, this never materialized 
because there was some confusion about the specifications of the type of home 
and through court proceedings it was interpreted to mean a nursing home for 
the Jewish ill. I may not recall all of the legal ramifications that followed 
the will that was turned over to Temple Israel. And the material can be found 
in other sources. I would like now to talk a little bit about the Grimshaw
Mortuary. This was an important...

[End of Tape One, Side One.

Tape One, Side Two was blank.]

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