..inte: Bernard Fogelson ..intr: Dorothy Pickelner ..da: 1994 ..cp: 1993.036.127 Bernard Fogelson, right, with Rabbi A.L. Krohn and David Ben Gurion, Jerusalem, 1952. ..ca: ..ftxt: An Interview with Bernard Fogelson July 23, 1994 Transcriptionist: Carol Ruttan Interviewer: Dorothy Pickelner Log For Bernard Fogelson Interview Pages 1-2 Arrival in Phoenix Sophia Kruglick Louis Kruglick Kim Kruglick Karen Kruglick 3 Joined temple Rabbi Krohn 3 Formed youth group - JOBs Ruth Levy Dorothy Herzberg Tilly Mendelowitz 3 Trip to Lake Tahoe, 1948 Gus Greenbaum Rabbi Plotkin 3- 5 Trip to Europe, 1952 Monsignor Donohue 3 Audience with Pope Pius XII Ben Gurion 5- 7 Start of Fogelson Pharmacy Chief Justice Rehnquist Eleanor Roosevelt Phil Copland Father Murray 7 Friends in early Phoenix Mel Myland Paul Stamen Judge Cantor 7 Start of Hebrew Academy Rabbi Rebibo 8 Children David Fogelson Brenda Rosenthal Howard Rosenthal Mark Fogelson 8 Wife Patricia Fogelson Rabbi Segal 9 Acquisition of Prescott camp Jerry Lewkowitz Irv Pearlstein 9 North Phoenix Corporate Ministry Sister Chris David Murdoch 10 Involvement in politics Estes Kefauver John Kennedy 10-12 Impressions of Phoenix today Bernard Fogelson Interview PICKELNER: Good morning, Bernie. I'm very happy to greet you this morning and to have this discussion with you about where you came from, how you landed in Arizona and we're happy to hear all that you have to tell us. So, won't you tell us about your family? FOGELSON: Dorothy, in the many years that we've known each other now, you probably know a great deal about my family probably more than you do about me. But, In any event, the folks came out here in December of 1945. Shortly after Sophia Kruglick and hex family became disengaged from the army service In San Angelo, Texas, on their way to California and stopped in Phoenix. After taking his examination in California they returned to Phoenix because the need for pediatricians was that great. So, this year, instead of going to Florida the folks came to Phoenix. Shortly thereafter, I decided to continue my medical schooling at the University of Southern California, which was just opening its medical school the following year. I left Chicago, went south to New Orleans for the Mardi Gras and headed west. Coming to Phoenix I was absolutely astounded to see all the palm trees and citrus fruit -- the perfume of the orange blossoms was overwhelming. To see citrus along the curbs of the streets when I expected to see nothing but sagebrush and stark desert. Going on to California for a period where the weather was horrible, plus the fact that they were not accepting at the medical school the first year other than residents of the state. So, I returned to Phoenix. We bought a home here on Verde Lane and 3rd Street and I started as a pharmacist for McCrary at Central and McDowell, although swearing when I left Chicago that I'd never go back to a drug counter. Seems as though nature's magnet works and you can't defy It totally. But, Phoenix was a different city in those days. Sunnyslope was partly a tent city. The southern part of town was made up of orange crates hammered together. The race track at 7th Avenue and Osborn was totally the western city with little financial consequence at the time. Scottsdale had wooden sidewalks and the main appeal was to have tourists to come out here. They wanted no permanent residents - let the tourists bring their money and then go home. We're satisfied to remain the town that we had lived in over a number of years. But, of course, all that changed. Soon, the Grand Canyon became the mecca for tourists throughout the world, and the other canyons surrounding it. The medical profession really thrived. Dr. Kruglick became one of the busiest pediatricians. My sister, Sophia, started almost immediately in becoming involved in civic work. Her husband was the leading pediatrician. The Jewish doctors at that time were relatively few. They had little money. They would gather together in backyards of their homes, listen to classical music, have a little dessert and that was their socializing. Sophia became involved in many civic duties. She was city councilwoman for two sessions in 1964 to 1968. She had medals of Merit of Honor from the Federation for her work on their various committees. She was involved in collegiate work for her alma mater, the University of Chicago. She had a unique age record, having been born on February 29, she was only four years old when she entered the University of Chicago. she got further degrees at Northwestern In California and was very active in the Crittenton Society, the Young Women's Christian Association, the legal societies, as well as medical societies, where she got awards. Her three children: Louis became a doctor in Salinas, California; Kim is an attorney in the Bay area of California; Karen lives here in Phoenix. Sophia, of course, succumbed to cancer in 1973. My personal activities were not so outstanding until I made -- well, to start with: Rabbi Krohn and I became very close friends when our family joined the temple almost Immediately after coming to Phoenix. The following year, Sophia was vice president of Sisterhood and both Ruth Levy and Dorothy Herzberg asked If I would try to form a youth group, which I did, at the old temple. We called them the JOB's - Just Our Bunch. We had a couple plays that we put on. Tilly Mendelowitz was the co-worker on this. It was a very successful little group. In the summer of '48, Rabbi Krohn, myself and four boys went to Lake Tahoe where the western rabbis were having a get-together and we had provisions for a boys' camp at the same time. On the way up there we stopped at Las Vegas as guests of Gus Greenbaum at the Flamingo Hotel. We got royal treatment. At Lake Tahoe there were about ten rabbis gathered together. There, for the first time, we were joined by Rabbi Plotkin, just very recently ordained, who became the very young man of the group. We were all treated to very profound philosophical discussions and a lot of mirth at the same time. The rabbi's voice at that time was still very outstanding. The friendship that was formed at that time with Rabbi Krohn resulted In a joint trip that we made to Europe and Israel. I had a letter from a general, who was part of the United Nations Committee on the Middle East, that I was given by the sister of this general as an introduction to the head of tourism in Israel. Rabbi Krohn received a request from Monsignor Donohue to the College of Cardinals in Rome that we be included in an audience with Pope Plus XII, which we were. We came to Israel, we had alyeas(?), we had the esurum(?) synagogue - the largest at that time. We got to see the new immigrants, mostly children's groups from North Africa. PICKELNER: Bernie, in what year was that? FOGELSON: This was in 1952. We spent several weeks there. We met the prime minister, Ben Gurion, in his office and spoke for three-quarters of an hour about the similarities between their climate, their soil, their water supply and that of Arizona's. The afternoon of Shabbas we had an early sabon(?) at the home of the mayor of Jerusalem, Mayor Shraguy(?), at the time. There we met the chief rabbi of Israel and he had been the chief rabbi of Ireland previously. He said, "It's quite a wonderful feeling coming from Ire-land to Unser-land and the greatest thing that could possibly have happened." There, too, we met Dr. Rickardls(?) brother, who was head of the department at Welzmann University, developing materials that would retard the spoilage of fruits, primarily citrus, from Israel which is being shipped as one of their major commodities. We stayed at the King David Hotel in Jerusalem. We overlooked the wall of the city, the old city, and it was a beautiful site - magnificent floral arrangements outside the hotel. But the feeling that here's a place where you belonged and had no access to. As a matter of fact, I went with a Mr. Hanoi, who was Minister of Health, to the top of the Notre Dame Hospital. PICKELNER: Here in Phoenix? FOGELSON: No, in Jerusalem, which was right at the wall, separating the east and west parts of the city. It was a six-story building. We looked over there and there were these teenagers with rifles over their shoulders and chasing their dogs and things of that sort. I had been told that on several occasions tourists had been shot at. But, from that point, you got to see many important things - David's tomb and the great victories the Kabutzim had when they destroyed Syrian tanks and others with virtually no supplies to work with. It's a real inspiration. So, we continued on into Beersheba where Abraham fed his flock of sheep at the wells of Beersheba. At the restaurant close by the springs, we saw the menus with some pork products being listed. Of course, this was still a British community to a large extent. They'd occupied it ever since World War I. Some of their restaurateurs were there. It was quite a shocking experience. So, from there to Eilat, where you go down an area and you can see the coral formations, which are absolutely magnificent, and hundreds of different types of fish. on the way back, we stopped at the Vatican where we had a chance to go through the Sistine Chapel, the fantastic museum that they have and had a semi-private audience with Pius XII. PICKELNER: Very, very interesting. I'm sure those were memories that will last your whole life. Bernie, would you tell us what experiences you had in Phoenix in your work life and how you happened to develop that wonderful business that you had at the Bernie Fogelson Pharmacy. FOGELSON: Well, in 1954 there was a building going up for four osteopathic physicians. The street was unpaved or had a very narrow road. There was absolutely nothing out there, except at the corner there was an old nursing home. Park Central Shopping Center was about to open when I became unhappy with McCrary's where I had worked. They did not ask me to manage the new store they were opening, so I decided I would open this one myself on Osborn Road. I'd been with the McCrary Pharmacy for eight years prior to that. We started. It was going to be a very ethical prescription shop catering to doctor's needs, their vaccines and their other supplies. As for the manner in which we got started, some of the drug companies weren't too anxious to open a credit with us, because they thought the potential for this thing working out, the viability was not too good. In any event, It did fairly well. A couple of interesting episodes occurred. One day we got the word from St. Joseph's Hospital where Patricia, who later became my wife, but whom I had dated previously, encountered a young man who, while sleeping with his mouth open, was bitten by a black widow spider. There was absolutely no vaccine available. This was 10:00 at night. By the rarest of circumstances, we had the vaccine on hand, primarily because these drug companies would exchange any outdated material and you had no loss. In any event, this was available. Patricia tried to find out from me where it could be obtained. I told her we had some. It probably saved the young man's life. It further advanced our romance a little bit. About the same time, I read of a pharmacy in New Jersey and received a supply of polio vaccine which had just been discovered by Salk. There again, I got in touch with a company, ordered a supply of it, and received it before there was any general distribution of it. When it did come out, it was allocated on the basis of previous orders and we had a fairly good supply. That established our reputation among the doctors as being a good source of vaccine supplies. The labor union thought they could get a very favorable publicity and, together with us, we set up a couple stations where the public was invited to come in, get their flu shot for a very low price and they got a lot of good publicity out of it. But, in the meantime, the Fogelson Pharmacy name became better known throughout the community. I was invited to join the visiting Nurses Board, which I did, where the present Chief Justice Rehnquist was president. I followed him in that office a couple years later and met some very marvelous people in the meantime. There was also a civic conference committee set up and I was asked to preside over that. They were electing members to the Phoenix Union High School Board. My suggestion was Rabbi Krohn as one of its members. There's a Mrs. Baker and a Mr. Theilkus and the three of them won over some rather heavy opposition that the school political group had tried to put through. In the meantime, having just returned from Israel, I was asked to become president of the American Friends to the Hebrew University, which I did, and we had some good meetings for awhile. We had a period where I became quite active in temple affairs and the lecture series called insight 1964-65, was extremely popular. The previous year Eleanor Roosevelt, Phil Copland, and other very renowned public figures were speakers. Father Murray had Just returned from the Vatican council with John XXIII and he gave us a marvelous story about all the happenings there. I later became president of Beth Israel. PICKELNER: Bernie, not to interrupt you, but who were the young people at that time. You've mentioned a few names. How was the dating situation and who were the young people. Name them, If you can, who became your friends. FOGELSON: Well, among the people that I spent quite a bit of time with: Mel Myland, Paul Stamen, a number have moved away or are no longer amongst us. I became very close friends with Judge Cantor who recently passed away. Both through the Judaic contact and with the Masonic, It's where both of us took an active role. The contacts we had with many of them were not deep social contacts, but in many cases they were young couples and I was single. It was not the ideal combination. However, the community grew, many other things happened, Century Country Club started and died, we had all kinds of experiences. One of the very interesting experiences was the arrival in Phoenix of a Rabbi Rebibo, who started the Hebrew Academy here. There were a number of Orthodox families that were very anxious to get their children into a school of that sort. My children were enrolled in Phoenix Country Day School at the time, which is supposed to be a fine private school. But, they simply didn't have the discipline that our kids required, especially our eldest - well, both our boys. Finally, when David was in the fifth grade we decided that he needed some additional discipline, so we enrolled him at the Phoenix Hebrew Academy, where he graduated, and became a much better student. Our daughter, Brenda, who attended there, Is married to one of her classmates, Howard Rosenthal. They now live In Kansas City and have four wonderful children. Then the youngest one, Mark, is In the army, an intelligence officer In languages primarily. He Is quite fluent in Russian and also In Korean. Incidentally, he is expecting the arrival of twin daughters any hour now. They're in Fort Lewis in the state of Washington. Patricia, my wife, is a docent at the Plotkin Judaica Museum and really loves the work, loves the artifacts, loves the contact with Jewish and non-Jewish groups. She assiduously attends Torah discussions on Saturday mornings, which she wouldn't miss, with Rabbi Segel. So, we have some fairly decent contacts in this department. PICKELNER: Bernie, did your children continue their Jewish education at the Hebrew Academy? FOGELSON: Yes, Dorothy, they all graduated from Hebrew Academy and it's changed our lives to a considerable extent. During the years that they attended school there, they were frequently invited to the homes of their classmates and, in order to reciprocate, it was necessary that our home be koshered. It was, totally, and is to this day - every phase of it, all the Passover differences. I don't think there's a much more totally observant kitchen than ours. PICKELNER: That's very interesting.FOGELSON: Despite the fact that we had this Orthodox orientation, we still were Reform in our theology, still quite active in the temple. one of the episodes of the temple that I recall very vividly was when Jerry Lewkowitz heard from the secretary of the labor union that their summer camp up near Prescott was not being used - would we be willing to buy the building that they had created and take it off their hands? Lewkowitz and I went up there, saw the grounds, saw the building, saw the potential and came back extremely enthusiastic. Irv Pearlstein grabbed the idea and was the principal sponsor of financing our acquiring the camp, which has been a great boon, not only to our children, but to many other Jewish children in this area. People wonder sometimes about what appears to be a dichotomy between the Hebrew Academy and the temple, but my life has been pretty much directed towards ecumenism. I took an active role with the North Phoenix Corporate Ministry where a wonderful nun, Sister Chris by name, was the director. We got eight congregations together, Catholic, Beth El, Beth Israel and a number of the Protestant churches where the ministers would meet for a weekly luncheon. We had great meetings and great educational programs. We work through high schools and the general feeling was great. We have a regular Thanksgiving session where we all met generally at St. Francis Church. The Jewish choirs were there, the shofar would be heard, all the different types of understanding one another. So, there's a great feeling of friendship. I've always had an Interest in many of the non-Jewish organizations, principally the Masonic ones. I took an active role in the Phoenix Scottish Rite. There we present degrees in dramatic fashion and they have a great Impact on the candidates that come through. They are non-religious, but historical and the part of the building of the temple of King Solomon is very symbolic. So, my connection with non-Jewish groups has been quite extensive. In addition to the Visiting Nurses presidency, I also was president of the Arthritis Foundation and, of course, for 16 years I was a board member of Kivel Geriatric Center, serving as Vice President for a period. The city functions proper a couple of city commissions when Mayor Barrows made the appointments, so I got a fairly good insight on that period. The one man that I worked with for awhile, unfortunately too short awhile, was David Murdoch, who went on to become the triple billionaire. He made political contacts with the Republican party that really worked out extremely well. PICKELNER: In the political things, weren't you somebody or other of importance in the Republic party? FOGELSON: I was a precinct committeeman elected in our area and played a bit of a role - had letters of thanks from a number of the politicians. Particularly, to this day, every Republican candidate for any office keeps me Informed. Although, In many Instances -- I worked for Estes Kefauver, who was a Democrat, and for John Kennedy, who was no Republican either. PICKELNER: Bernie, that's very interesting. You certainly did your part in the community. I wanted to know, how does Phoenix today, both in its religious development and in its business development, how does it impress you today? Was it more difficult or less difficult, do you think, than it was when you started? FOGELSON: Well, Phoenix is a totally different city. At that time there were three synagogues, one from each group. Today, there are many, many more. The city Itself is so vastly expanded. The architecture and the buildings and the floor space has had phenomenal growth. The freeways and bus systems as they're operated with your general commercial activity here - the Motorolas and Intels and corporations of that sort which make this a very thriving, industrial city, no longer dependent upon tourists for Its income. It's a city of great beauty I find. It has greenery that is totally unexpected in a desert. It has many facilities and it seems to have far less political corruption than many other cities. We are in a very wonderful place to live. I asked many years ago a banker, who was a customer at the pharmacy in Chicago, who had traveled around the world, which at that time I thought was a great deal before the Concord or anything. He said of all the places that he had visited and lived in for short periods, the place that he would much prefer to live in would be Phoenix, Arizona. This goes back 50 years or more. It becomes even more desirable today in my opinion. It's a beautiful city. It has faults it is trying hard to overcome, but it will. I'm very happy that I've decided to make this my home, my religious anchor and the spirit of friendship that exists among the entire community, not religiously oriented in its entirety. Some of my very, very closest friends are non-Jews. PICKELNER: That's funny. We always say that the opposite way. FOGELSON: Well, the days of stewardship at the Camelback Inn are over. They now have kosher kitchens. it's almost incredible, but it's true. We've made great progress and there's much more to be achieved as the years go on. PICKELNER: Well, Bernie, we know that you've built up a wonderful profession of your own and you had a wonderful reputation and your pharmacy had a wonderful reputation as being the finest here in town. We thank you for your participation and your help in making Phoenix grow. Thank you very, very much. FOGELSON: Dorothy, you're very kind and, particularly coming from you, who has given so much of yourself to make this city the city that it is. I consider it a real privilege to chat with you and to exchange some of these stories. PICKELNER: Thank you. Would you encourage your children or friends to go into the pharmaceutical business here? FOGELSON: It's too late for that. The entire tone of pharmacy and even of medicine shortly has changed, plus the fact they are adults now. They have their chosen careers. David is extremely involved in a new program out at Berkeley. Currently, he's spending a month up at Exeter, New Hampshire, chosen as one of 24 teachers in the United States to attend this math seminar. They have a completely new approach to teaching mathematics, so it becomes far more practical and they've lost none of the theory. PICKELNER: Wonderful. That's very interesting. So, your children are productive, too. FOGELSON: Yes, outside of pharmacy. They're doing well. Brenda with the four children is also quite productive, I'd say. PICKELNER: I think she is. Is there anything else that you would like to add? Do you still keep up with your old friends that you knew in the old days? FOGELSON: Well, that's one of the sadder parts of growing older. They slip by, and you miss them, miss them terribly. when some of those pass away at an earlier age it grieves you even more, because they haven't quite had the opportunity of enjoying life to the extent that you have. Those that I've known in the past I still maintain a close relationship with, but their Interests change as they grow older. They become far more satisfied with their own pursuits. PICKELNER: Once again, I want to thank the Fogelson family because your sister, Sophia Kruglick, certainly gave a great deal of herself, both to the civic community and to the Jewish community and I, for one, loved working with her. She added a great deal and she died much too young. And you have added a lot and your children will and that's the way it should be. Thank you. FOGELSON: Thank you very much, Dorothy. [end of transcript]