..inte: Bertha Goldman Feiler ..intr: Bobbi Kurn ..da: 1986 ..cp: First issue of the Phoenix Jewish News, January 15, 1948. ..ca: ..ftxt: An Interview with Bertha Goldman Feiler December 23, 1986 Transcriptionist: Carol Ruttan Interviewer: Bobbi Kurn Arizona Jewish Historical Society Log For Bertha Goldman Feiler Interview Pages 1 Family Billings, Montana 1 Parents Gertrude & Max Silverman from Sierps (Village) Herman (brother) Sadie Hutman (sister) 2 Father's work - 1923 City of Hope Duarte 2 Trip to Phoenix 3 First home in Phoenix (60 years ago) - apartment on Washington Street 5 1920 founded Temple Beth Israel 6- 7 High school girls 1928-1932 Rabbi Dow Hess Tess Esther Dow Lenore Primock Ethel Zeitlin now: Ethel David Bess Samuels now: Bess Oseran Pearl Newmark was: Pearl Reiter Sophie Goodman now: Sophie Citron 7 Holidays Passover 7 Confirmed Temple Beth Israel 7 Streets Washington Monroe 7 Their home 7th St. & Adams 8 Neighbors Stamatis Funk 9 School Monroe 9 Public pools in the 20's East Lake Park Joyland Tempe Riverside 10 Passover Seder Hyman Skomerovsky (Grandfather) David Skomer Rabbi Dow David family Addas family Zayde David Skomer (son of grandmother) Gertrude Fireman Esther Fireman 14 First St. & Van Buren 14 1925 Joe Stocker 14 Mother's business Esther Fireman 14 1929 High school days Phoenix Union Gerst Silvermans Goldwaters Harry Rosenzweig 19 Hess Tess club 19 Plays Sophie Citron Aaron 20 Hebrew Men's Club Ray Wein Cecil Newmark Sol Lebeau 21 Temple Beth Israel Rabbi Dow 24 Phoenix College - 1936 24 Los Angeles 24-25 Phoenix 1940 Bud Goldman (husband) 26 Hebrew Men's Club Ruth & Joe Banks Newmarks Mendelsohns 27 Speaker in Tucson Ittamar Ben Aviv 27 Films on Israel Mrs. Heard 27 Married 1942 27-28 Newspaper 28 Jewish Community Center Maury Brown Joseph Banks Newmarks 29 1948 Federation asked Bud Goldman Joe Stocker to put out paper Ida Meckler 29 Private newspapers 30 1960 - sold to Newmarks 31 Editors Burt Freireich Joe Stocker "strima dran" Barry Goldwater 35 Photographers Markow Al Abrams 35 Music Koussevitsky Eleanor Roosevelt 36 1948 Rabbi Krohn Mrs. Heller 36 Arizona Republic Anna Boettiger 36 Arizona Times Joe Stocker Fritz Marquardt 38 Year in Israel Debbie Metz Lillian Feiler Elayne Stein 39 Junior Council of Jewish Women 39 Hadassah Judith Epstein Mrs. Archer E. Linde Paul Robson Oscar Levant Cornelia Otis Skinner Robert Merrill Roberta Peters 42 1948 Sheila (daughter) 42 1953 Morris (son) 42 League of Women Voters Bill Mahoney Stuart Udall Bertha Goldman Feiler Interview This is Bobbi Kurn with the Arizona Jewish Historical Society. Today is December 23, 1986 and I am in the home of Bert Goldman Feiler. We are going to be talking today about her past in Phoenix. She has two children, Morris and Sheila, and her husband's name is Ben. I think we'll get started. KURN: Hello. FEILER: Hello. KURN: Thank you for allowing me to come in and learn more about you and about your days when you first arrived and things you've been involved with. You moved to Phoenix from where? FEILER: Billings, Montana, which is where I was born. KURN: Were your parents born there? FEILER: No, my parents were foreign born. My mother was born in Odessa and my father was born in a small town in Poland, in Sierps, S-i-e-r-p s. KURN: That's a town? FEILER: That's a little village. KURN: Okay. And your mother's name is? FEILER: Gertrude. And my father's name is Max. KURN: And last name was? FEILER: Silverman. KURN: S-i -- FEILER: 1-v-e-r-m-a-n. KURN: Okay. Do you have any brothers or sisters? FEILER: I have a brother, Herman and I had a sister who passed away early in life. She died here in Phoenix. KURN: And her name was? FEILER: Sadie Hutman. KURN: Okay. What did your father do? FEILER: My father was a merchant tailor, had a store on 1st Avenue just north of Washington. He died here in Phoenix in the middle '30s, about 1938. KURN: What brought you to Phoenix in the first place? FEILER: He brought us to Phoenix - my family came to Phoenix for my father's health in 1923. KURN: Brought the whole family over. FEILER: That's right. KURN: Why Phoenix? FEILER: Because he had contracted tuberculosis and had spent, I guess, part of a year at Duarte, which is now City of Hope. They told him to move to a warm climate in order to improve his health. KURN: Do you remember the trip to Phoenix? FEILER: Yes, I do remember it vividly. We drove in an old Dusenberg between Montana and Phoenix. We did some camping along the way. We came in late September and early October. I do remember it quite vividly, parts of it anyway. KURN: How old were you? FEILER: Eight. My brother, who was younger, was three. KURN: How did you know what to do, where to go? FEILER: Well, I'm sure my parents figured it out. They must have laid out the plan of what to do. I can remember a lot of desert type of scenery and lots of dirt roads. Talking about dirt roads, one of the early memories is driving from Phoenix to Los Angeles via Yuma over the old plank road. I'm sure others have spoken about that. We drove there in 1926 and I have a very clear memory of that. It took two days to get there. KURN: What part of town did the family settle in? FEILER: We rented a small apartment at 11th Street and Washington which was there until just a very few years ago, I'd say maybe five or six years ago. It became a black neighborhood in the more recent years. But after all we're talking 60-some years ago. I think the second place we lived was around 7th Street and Adams where, I think, the Heritage Townhouses are, in that area. Then my mother and father both wanted to -- my mother had been trained as a masseuse in Odessa, and they both wanted to have their businesses in some way so they could enhance making a living. So they rented a storeroom that had a place to live behind it at 1st Street and Van Buren, right where the crosstown canal is, where the Arizona Republic is now. That was really the end of the city. KURN: That would have been about what year? FEILER: I would say about 1925, something about like that. And then in 1928 they built a duplex at 17th Avenue and McDowell, which was really way out of town. There was a streetcar that went out Grand Avenue as far as McDowell and then turned around and went back. The duplex was built in 1928 and we moved into it in 1929. I mention the streetcar because we weren't driven to Phoenix Union High School, we had to take the streetcar, change in town and get to the high school via streetcar. KURN: Let's go back to your very first house that you moved into when you first came. Can you visualize it, tell us what it looked like. FEILER: Well, it was an apartment on Washington Street. There wasn't anything very special. I can see it simply because, as I told you, the building was there until just a very few years ago. It was very nondescript. It was a long, narrow apartment with maybe six apartments along one floor. I don't remember the inside of the house at all, but of course having seen the apartment many times over the years I remember what the outside looked like. KURN: And the neighborhood? FEILER: It was sort of out of town, because even though Washington Street was the main street this was still quite a ways out of downtown Phoenix. KURN: And the people that lived there? FEILER: Working class people. I don't remember too much about it, but I'm sure they were just working class people, because that's what my family was. KURN: How did you get around? FEILER: Well, we had a car; we came in a car from Montana, so I presume that's what we did. And I guess the streetcar. There was a streetcar on Washington Street. Whether it came out to 12th Street I don't remember, but I would guess that it did. Eastlake Park was there in those days and that was one of the destinations that people would go to. KURN: Eastlake Park? FEILER: Yes. It's still there. I say I'm sure that the streetcar probably ran that far at least, because it was a public park. It wasn't a park that we used particularly as I remember. I think we must have, but at any rate it was a city park. KURN: I was going to ask you about the Washington Street and 12th Street apartment. Were there any temples, any Jewish- FEILER: Temple Beth Israel was founded I think around 1920. I believe we joined almost immediately. As far as I know we did. Actually, it was the only synagogue of any kind in the city. Anybody that wanted any Jewish activity that's where it all originated. It all came from Temple Beth Israel at that time. KURN: Do you remember going there when you first came? FEILER: Not so much as a very young child, no. I do remember more in the early high school years. We had a choir that children were in as well as adults and I was in that. Then during our high school years we had the unusual situation of having about 15 girls about the same age. You've probably had someone else talk about this so I'll just make it really very brief. So we decided -- and I kind of was the ringleader -- that if they could have Greek sororities, we could have a Hebrew sorority. Rabbi Dow was the rabbi. So we went over Hebrew names and ultimately came up with Hess Tess. KURN: Hess FEILER: Hess Tess. Those are two Hebrew letters. H-e-s-s; T-e-s-s. The other one that we considered was Lamed Ben Lamed. We were being very Greekish. At any rate, that was during our high school years. Pearl was in that. So I'm sure somebody has told you about Hess Tess. KURN: First I've heard of it. FEILER: Oh, really? I gave an enormous amount of printed material to the Temple Beth Israel library about 10 years ago on Hess Tess. We used to give plays and everybody in town supported it. Temple Beth Israel was the source, and we had parties and it was just one of those very nice things growing up that there were Jewish girls of the same age. Would you like the names of some of the girls? KURN: Yes. First of all, what year would that have been, approximately? FEILER: Well, it would have been from about '28, '29 through 31 or '32. KURN: Okay. Who was in that? FEILER: Let's see. Esther Dow, Rabbi's daughter; Lenore Primock, who's not around any longer; Ethel Zeitlin, who is now Ethel David; Bess Samuels, who is now Bess Oseran; Pearl Newmark, who was Pearl Reiter; Sophie Goodman, who is now Sophie Citron. I don't think I remember any more, but there were more. KURN: We'll get back to that in a minute. I still want to go back to Washington Street and 12th Street. Were there any Jewish families in your neighborhood? FEILER: Not that I remember. I don't think there were more than about 20 to 25 Jewish families in Phoenix. I don't remember any Jewish families in the neighborhood. KURN: Did you celebrate the holidays when you first came? FEILER: We always celebrated Passover, I remember. We always went to synagogue on the high holidays. Beyond that I don't remember in the early years. When we were in high school we were definitely in Sunday School, I was confirmed at Temple Beth Israel and we went to services - high holiday time at least. I can't remember a great deal of going on Friday nights, but, yes, we celebrated the holidays. KURN: What did the streets look like? Were they paved or were they dirt? FEILER: The major streets were paved. Washington and Monroe were paved. Many of the secondary streets were not. KURN: Then the family moved to your second house after that? FEILER: The second house was at 7th Street and Adams. And I really don't remember if that was paved or not, but I would guess yes, it was. It was close enough into the center of the city to have been paved. KURN: That was considered -- FEILER: It was central to the city. It wasn't downtown by a long shot. It was just central Phoenix. KURN: Why did your family move, do you remember? FEILER: I really don't. Maybe larger quarters, because it was a house. My guess is that's why. KURN: Not closer to the temple, maybe? FEILER: No. That would not have made a difference to my father or mother, I don't believe. The temple was, of course, at Culver and 2nd Street. KURN: Do you remember any of your neighbors? FEILER: At 7th Street, yes, the Stamatis family, a Greek family who ultimately became involved with the Funks in the Greyhound Park. They were in the restaurant business and I think Jimmy Stamatis, who is my brother's age and my brother's 65, I believe he still runs it. At least he did a few years back. KURN: Who were your mother's friends in those days? FEILER: I have no idea. Can't remember at all. KURN: And your brother is older than you are? FEILER: No, my brother's younger. KURN: So you were the eldest? FEILER: My sister was the eldest. KURN: And she passed away here in Phoenix? FEILER: Uh-huh. KURN: And your friends at that point? FEILER: At that time they had to have been neighborhood and school children. I went to Monroe and I'm sure the neighborhood children and my classmates at Monroe, because that was close. I don't remember any of that time. KURN: Did you go to Sunday school? FEILER: I don't think so. Not until probably closer to high school years. I don't remember that we did go to anything in the way of Sunday School. I do remember that I was confirmed, so then that meant that I had to go at some point along the way there in early teens. KURN: Do you remember any Jewish holiday celebrations? FEILER: Passover, basically. I remember that because that was always a big holiday. The other thing that I remember from the young years - there are a couple things that I remember, and one is that when we mentioned the Eastlake Park before we didn't go to Eastlake Park, but because there was no air conditioning and you needed to cool off, everybody went to either Joyland or later to Tempe, because those were the public pools. Joyland is about 24th and Van Buren - it's a trailer park now. But it was a very -- and Riverside. But we never went much to Riverside, we went to either Joyland or Tempe. In the early '20s there were people coming from other cities for health reasons, as we had come. I remember that no matter how hot it was our car was always loaded with the stranger in town who was alone. They had to be taken along with us. No matter how we griped about it my father said, "They're alone in a strange city and we have the obligation to have them in our home and take them to the picnic with us, to swim if they will swim." Many of the pictures I mentioned having given Harriet Gerst to give to the Society were some of the pictures from those '20s, from Joyland and all, from that period. KURN: Can you describe one of your Passover Seders in the early days? FEILER: Well, yes, I think I have some memories of it. First of all, my grandfather, who became the shamus of Temple Beth Israel after he came, was brought to the -- KURN: What was his name? FEILER: Hyman Skomerovsky -- came from Russia in the early '20s. He was able to stay in Russia after the Revolution because his son, David Skomer, a family you would know, had done some rather great heroic deed during the short period when Russia was at war with Germany, I guess it was, and if you remember history they withdrew very early and the Revolution proceeded. Something that he had done in that short period of service, saving the life of someone who became an important Communist in his city, allowed them to keep their business which was a rope hemp manufacturing for sailing ships, etc. They had, in other words, friends in high places who allowed them to stay, and then when it came their time on the list they were warned and my grandfather was taken out by the English Consul via Turkey as an English prisoner. That's how he escaped from Russia. KURN: What year was that? FEILER: About 1920, '21. And we brought him to the States and he lived in Phoenix the rest of his life. He died about 1935. Now, of course with that in mind, then we had a more -- Blackie(?) was not religious, he was a very worldly man. Nonetheless he observed far more than we did as a family so our Passover Seders were always very colorful and very well attended, a lot of people always. of course, no kosher food because my family didn't keep kosher, but I don't remember anybody sending to Los Angeles or wherever they get it, although I'm sure they must have. That would be before the Dows came because Dow was both the rabbi and the mohel. KURN: In what way were they colorful, do you think? FEILER: Well, there was music and the singing and the telling of the stories and the food. Nothing that I remember as being ultra religious, just maybe the social part of it as much as anything else. And always a lot of people, a lot of guests. KURN: Who would be some of the guests? FEILER: Well, they would be the guests who were from out of town, the people who were there. There was one family from New York who had a sick child and there were three children in the family. I remember them - the Davis family. There was a Syrian Jewish man from San Francisco whose name was Addis, A-d-d-i-s, I believe. Those are two that I remember. I don't remember too many more. KURN: Who would lead the service? FEILER: My zayde, absolutely. I thought I made that clear that because of his presence, having come when he did, it made the difference. That made all the difference. KURN: This was your mother's father? FEILER: Right. KURN: And his wife didn't come over or his children? FEILER: No. My grandfather and grandmother were divorced in Russia, and my mother's mother, my grandmother, came alone to the United States and ultimately brought my mother when she was about 18. They lived together in Chicago for a period of time. My grandfather remarried in Russia, but his second wife had died by the time he came here. She was the mother of two sons, one was David Skomer, who we also brought here, ultimately, and the other one remained in Russia, never came out of Russia. KURN: How would you observe Rosh Hashonah and Yom Kippur? FEILER: Special observation. We would go to synagogue. I don't remember anybody ever fasting. I just don't remember anybody fasting. Maybe my Zayde, but I don't remember anybody else. KURN: Did you have Jewish friends as a little girl, preteen? FEILER: I can't really say that I did, but I can't say that I didn't. Chances are I did simply because I've already mentioned that in high school there was this unusual situation with these 12 or 14 girls of the same age. I had one very good friend, Gertrude Fireman, who lived in Glendale. We spent many a weekend together - Glendale was a long way off in those years. But she would mostly come to Phoenix. But I believe yes, we must have been friends in grade school as well as in high school. KURN: Do you remember how you met? FEILER: I haven't any idea how we met. I wonder if she does. She's Esther Fireman's sister-in-law. Esther was married to her brother. But other than that it would have been one of these other girls that were my teenage friends. I don't remember anybody else going to Monroe. A lot of the girls went to Kenilworth. I did not, but my brother did later. I don't think I had Jewish friends in grade school. KURN: Your mom stayed home most of the time? FEILER: No. My mother worked. My mother was a masseuse. KURN: Oh, right. FEILER: From about '26 on she had her own place of business. I don't remember how long she kept that but she did have it for many years. KURN: That was the third house where they moved? FEILER: That was the third place, yes. KURN: And that was where? FEILER: That was 1st Street and Van Buren, just below Van Buren. KURN: So she worked in the home. FEILER: We actually lived behind the two businesses. It was that kind of a corner set-up, and then we had about three or four rooms to live in behind these two businesses, my father's tailor shop and my mother's masseuse parlor. KURN: About what year would that have been? FEILER: '25 we moved out of there and I don't even know how long she kept the business, but we moved out of there in '29. So I really don't remember how long she kept the business. Maybe she closed it at the point we moved, I don't really know. KURN: Was there anything special about that neighborhood that you remember? FEILER: No, nothing special about it. KURN: You were still going to Monroe? FEILER: I was still going to Monroe, yes, until the time we moved to the McDowell address which is when I started high school, in 1929. KURN: How did you get to Monroe, do you remember? FEILER: I walked. It was no problem. You know, everybody walked to school. KURN: Were there black children, or Mexican children in those days, do you remember? FEILER: Black children were separated, they had their own schools. Didn't you know Phoenix was segregated? Good Lord, talk to Joe Stocker. Talk to him - you really need to report him. Yes, they were segregated. So, that wasn't a problem - if you want to call it a problem, that wasn't a situation. There probably were Hispanic children, I would guess there were, but I don't remember. KURN: What school did the black children go to? FEILER: Well, let's see, was it Carver High and -- the building is still there. I don't really remember, but it was over on Jefferson, near the Carver High. They were segregated until the '50s if I'm not mistaken. They desegregated before it was mandated, but talk to Joe Stocker. He was a big mover in that. KURN: Do you remember many Jewish children in Monroe in the late '20s? FEILER: No, I really don't. I don't think there were many in Monroe. I don't remember any. KURN: Did you feel isolated as a Jew? FEILER: At times, yes. There were some anti-Semitic incidents, maybe on the playground, or somebody making a remark, but how isolated it felt I don't know. But I do remember -- in fact, there's a woman in town who was at school at the same time. She was a very ugly child and a very mean child, and on the playground once - probably we were in the same ball game - she hollered out, "You dirty Jew, why didn't you do this or that". I've always remembered her and disliked her intensely. She's a big worker in the YWCA, big macher in the YWCA. KURN: Do you remember how you responded? FEILER: Yes, I hit her. I remember how I felt and I remember how I responded - I hit her. But I don't think that it was terribly common. It was an isolated incident. I'm sure others could probably tell you similar incidents, but it wasn't anything that happened every day. KURN: But you knew you were Jewish, you knew you were different than they were. FEILER: Yes. KURN: Did you hide it? FEILER: No. I had no reason to do that. I don't think anybody did - not that I know of anyway. I'm not aware of anybody hiding it. KURN: Teachers didn't make an issue around the High Holiday time? FEILER: Not to my memory. I don't remember that they did. There are some of these people that were in school at the same time - you might interview some of them, you know, some of the people I've named. They might have other memories. Esther Fireman would be a very good person to interview, because they came from Douglas to Phoenix in the late '20s. KURN: So then, after 1st Street and Van Buren, you moved -- FEILER: To McDowell, 1702. KURN: Now you're high school age? FEILER: Yes. KURN: What year would this have been? FEILER: '29. KURN: What was that home like? FEILER: Well, that was a duplex that my father had built - he'd had it custom built and it was a pleasant situation. The nearest neighbors were the Gersts who lived down the block from us. I don't know exactly when they built, but I believe they may have even built there. They had a home about a block away. Their home may have been built when we moved there, but it was about the same time. It was a pleasant area - it was sort of country. You were not in the city and it was countrified. We didn't have city water, we had a private small water company. The pump happened to be not too far away - a few hundred feet away. That's why I remember that. KURN: What high school did you go to? FEILER: There was only one - Phoenix Union. KURN: What was that like? FEILER: Well, you had everybody from the whole area in it and that's when anybody who was Jewish was all together, if they were of that age. It was, I'm sure, a normal high school experience. We had a 50th reunion not too long ago. I have my graduation annual - I gave them the rest. I had them for about - well, my sister was the first one in school, then I, then my brother. We all graduated from there. There were Silvermans and Goldwaters. The Silvermans were the honor students and the Goldwaters were the dunces. They spread out over that 15 years, because our ages staggered. You know Barry never finished college. They were the troublemakers and the very un-bright ones. The Silvermans were always the honor students. My sister graduated in '29, I graduated in '32 and my brother in '36. In terms of Jewish names those were as prominent as any, because we were always honor students and they were Goldwaters. I don't think Carolyn ever finished college; I don't know about Bob, but none of them were students to speak of, you know, students in the Jewish sense of the word, as one would expect Jewish parents at that time to have seen to that their children made good grades and did all the things that you were supposed to do. KURN: When you were saying Silvermans, I was thinking in terms of Nat. FEILER: No, he was never in school here. KURN: It's good to ask. FEILER: I'll tell you who was here - Nat's wife. What was her name? I don't know, but she was here in those days. KURN: So you knew the Goldwaters were Jewish by birth? FEILER: Yes. KURN: Their parents were Jewish? FEILER: No, we just knew they were Jewish by birth. We didn't know that much more about them. He associated, as you know, in the early years, with Harry Rosenzweig, so he had some identification. But that's not pertinent to the tale, because really and truly we had no association, other than in a school way, as a school mate. KURN: So you were probably going to religious school at this time? FEILER: I would think in high school, yes, because I was going to be confirmed. KURN: What year were you confirmed, do you remember? FEILER: No, I don't. Some time in high school. KURN: At Temple Beth Israel? FEILER: Yes. KURN: What do you remember about the temple and your confirmation? FEILER: I don't remember a thing about confirmation. I remember a lot of things about temple, but mainly what I said to you about Hess Tess, because we had a lot of activity around the temple. That's where we met, that's where we did everything - all our activities were there. KURN: Tell me more about it. FEILER: Well, we had parties and we had plays. We would produce a play and then we'd sell tickets. Everybody in town would come to our play. I don't think there's much more than that to tell that I remember, but ask Pearl she'll remember. KURN: And it was 15 girls? FEILER: About 15 girls, yes. KURN: What about the Jewish boys? FEILER: Well, we found them. They weren't in our club, but we found them, we included them in our parties. Absolutely. KURN: They didn't want to form a club? FEILER: I don't know that they didn't want to, they certainly didn't in the same way that we did. Little by little, as we got older and more of a dating age, we each went with -Sophie Citron went with Aaron. In fact she never went with anybody else, and she ultimately married him. Everybody had a boyfriend, or most of them had a boyfriend, and most of them were Jewish. of course, nobody approved of anyone not going with a Jewish person. Yes, we paired off. Before too many years after that it was -- I'd say within the next four or five years when the HMC was founded, that was mainly older men - older young men - but as we approached 16 or 17 then we began to date some of those men too. They had no place else to go, they had to ditch down and get the younger girls, so that's where all the HMC pictures come in. KURN: What does that stand for? FEILER: Hebrew Men's Club. Ray Wein, the attorney, died the other night, and the one thing they had in his obituary was that he was a member of the Jewish Men's Club and it's been disbanded for lots of years. But all the young single men that came into town through the -- oh, I don't remember when it was banded, but Cecil Newmark can tell you a lot about that. He was one of the founding members. Sol Lebeau. They had a reunion about every ten years and I think they had one about two years ago. KURN: Did the temple help out with this young girls' -- FEILER: They helped by allowing us to use the facilities and they didn't charge. KURN: But you didn't have an advisor or a budget or -- FEILER: No. KURN: Did you have religious services or anything? FEILER: No. many of us were in the choir, that kind of thing, but no, we had no -- we were allowed to use and encouraged but not in any financial or other way. KURN: And the rabbi at that time, what was his name? FEILER: Still Rabbi Dow. KURN: Do you remember him being involved or his wife? FEILER: No. His daughter was one of our members, but no, they were not involved. His wife was not the kind of person to be involved at all, and neither would he have been the kind of person. I don't think it was in their thinking. KURN: Could anybody belong? FEILER: No. KURN: Tell me about that. FEILER: Just by invitation. We wanted to keep it compatible and so -- I think we kept one person out, but I don't remember any of the details. I think we kept one person out because she was unpleasant, but basically it was by invitation. KURN: And you're one of the founding members. FEILER: Yes. KURN: Did you feel a need, what was the need? FEILER: I think we must have. As I said, we came to the idea for it that if there could be Greek letter sororities there could certainly be Hebrew letter sororities, so that must tell you something. But that was kind of the motivating factor. KURN: I don't remember there being Greek letter sororities in high school. FEILER: No, there weren't in high school. It was something we knew about from college. We must have felt a need, otherwise why would we have banded together to do it? KURN: But it was a Jewish group? FEILER: Totally and only Jewish. KURN: And the activities were Jewish? FEILER: No. They were social, but they centered at the temple. I'm astounded that someone else you've interviewed from those years hasn't said anything. KURN: I haven't interviewed enough. FEILER: Maybe somebody else has interviewed and it's come up. KURN: Probably. But you have good memories of that group. FEILER: Oh, yes. We had a lot of fun, a lot of good times. KURN: Do you remember anything Jewishly that you did in high school? FEILER: No. KURN: Holidays observed? FEILER: We've mentioned that. We observed them, we stayed home from school. No special observance. KURN: Was there a Jewish neighborhood? FEILER: No, never was a Jewish neighborhood. To this day I really don't think there's an honest to God Jewish neighborhood. There are clusters of Jewish people, but not a Jewish neighborhood. KURN: I wonder how many Jewish people there were in those days or how many people belonged to the temple. FEILER: I don't know. I know they say that when we came in '23 there were about 25 families, but I wouldn't be able to verify that. I really don't know. KURN: Would you say most people belonged to the temple in those days? FEILER: I think so, yes. Most people belonged. KURN: Would they go to services regularly? FEILER: No, but for High Holidays they would be there. Everybody would be there. People would come in from small towns around, a few Jewish families here and there. KURN: Okay. Did you have a boyfriend then? FEILER: Yes, I did, in high school. KURN: Do you want to tell us who that was? FEILER: No. KURN: okay. Then you graduated Phoenix Union. FEILER: And I went on to Phoenix College, which was, of course, right next door to the high school. I graduated from there and then I left Phoenix. KURN: Was that a four-year college? FEILER: No. It was two-year. KURN: What did you take in those days? FEILER: A liberal arts course. Nothing very practical, which was kind of silly. But that's what we did. I graduated from Phoenix College in '36 and I moved to Los Angeles with a friend and lived in Los Angeles for a few years. I worked there and then I came back in 1940. That kind of covers the early years, doesn't it? KURN: Right. Was Phoenix different when you came back in 1940? FEILER: Yes, it was. KURN: In what way? FEILER: Well, it was much bigger, much bigger. More city and more people. KURN: Did this group of girls from high school stay together in Phoenix College? FEILER: Yes, I think they stayed together at Phoenix College, but once they finished college they dispersed after that. They did not stay together as a social group. Some, I think, stayed together as friends probably. Some went to college, others didn't; some went to work; some moved away. so, they did disperse. Those that didn't go to Phoenix College quickly dispersed in their own ways. KURN: How long did it stay in existence, do you know? FEILER: Just through high school. It didn't stay as a club when we were at Phoenix College. We remained friends, but it dispersed once we finished high school. KURN: The younger girls didn't pick it up? FEILER: No, in fact there weren't many younger girls. That's what was so odd about it. It seemed like there was just that nucleus of people around the same age. If there were any number of younger girls -- and if my memory is right there really weren't younger girls -- but if there were we didn't make any effort to include them. I just don't remember that there were. It would be a good question to ask one of the others. KURN: What did you do in 1940 when you came back? FEILER: Well, I worked at Korrick's for awhile and then I met my husband and we got married in '41. Early '42, actually. We became engaged in '41 at the time of the Pearl Harbor. We were getting ready to have our engagement party within a few days. KURN: Had the temple moved by then? FEILER: No. KURN: I wonder what year they moved. FEILER: I think in the early '50s. KURN: When you came back did you get involved in the temple at all, in the early '40s? FEILER: Well, the active social group at that point was Hebrew Men's Club. They met at temple. I think one of the most unique situations in a person's life developed for me -- my husband -- do you remember Bud at all? No. Well, he had very bad arthritis and he came for his health in the middle '30s. His family was Reformed Jewish and he knew a little more about Judaism, I think, in many ways than I did. He became very friendly with the Newmarks, and the Newmarks and Ruth and Joe Bank were the people that introduced Zionism to Phoenix. It was kind of a dirty word in those years, but they were the ones who brought the knowledge of the Zionist movement. KURN: The Banks and who else? FEILER: The Newmarks. Etta Mendelsohn -- his [Cecil's] sister. Since they were Bud's best friends he became very interested in the Zionist movement and he became a very ardent Zionist, which I don't think he had ever been. Certainly his family had never been, but they at least knew about it. I knew nothing about Zionism. To me, Palestine was where Jesus was born. That tells you what we were taught in Sunday School. Because now we're talking about 1941 when I'm already a young adult. When we were courting he said, "There's a United Palestine Appeal meeting in Tucson and we're all driving down - would you like to go?" "All driving" meaning those people involved in the Zionist movement. Incidentally, if you collect - they put out blue boxes. And Pearl can tell you these stories - they would be the collectors. Many times if they came with a box, if there wasn't a box in the home to be collected, they'd be thrown out of the house. This is the kind of feeling there was here. At any rate I said, "Sure, it's a lark. Who wouldn't want to drive to Tucson for the day?" Well, the speaker was Ittamar Ben Aviv, the son of Ben Yehuda. I couldn't conceive of the fact that as an adult and a Jewess there was something in the mainstream of Jewish life that I had never been told anything about - neither in my home nor in my synagogue nor anywhere. That's when I got hooked on Zionism. It really was like a whole revelation. When I was a girl I used to swim at the Y and I remember Mrs. Heard, you know from the Heard Museum, that family, showing pictures - it must have been in the '20s - of a trip to Palestine. I remember being sort of vaguely impressed by them. First of all, probably even seeing home movies in those years was probably unusual. They wouldn't have been slides because I don't think slides were invented, but I do remember that at the Y, where we used to go to swim, that, that was set up and we went to see it. That's how I associated Palestine. So that ties it with my meeting Bud and becoming interested in the Zionist movement through him and, of course, we became involved in the community in that way, as in every other way, from that point forward. We were married in early '42, started the newspaper in 1949. KURN: I want to hear a lot about that. You got married in '40 -- FEILER: In '42. KURN: To Bud Goldman. FEILER: Uh-huh. KURN: Okay. Tell me about the newspaper. FEILER: Well, it grew out of our community activity, because I was involved-- by that time the Hadassah Chapter had started, very soon after this incident. I have wonderful, wonderful newspaper clippings from the '40s -the number of us that went over, about 44, to hear Golda Meir when she was Golda Meyerson; the first Hadassah donor in 1942 or '44, the program and the pictures out of the paper; the Israel Philharmonic which we brought in '50. Just a whole lot of that kind of thing - I've been going through old scrapbooks. At any rate we were involved in the community in every way. There was a Zionist organization; we were always members of temple. By then of course there were two synagogues - that had happened long before. The Center was founded in our living room. KURN: Really. FEILER: Uh-huh. KURN: The Jewish Community Center? FEILER: The Jewish Community Center. The meetings were all held in our living room, to start. In fact, I think the only person left on the plaque from those years is my husband's name. Maury Brown ultimately gave the land, but the first Center, the first house or physical building was a little house on 4th Street close to Fillmore or Roosevelt. The Federation, of course, had grown out of what Joseph Bank and the Newmarks and all of those people who had been involved -- it wasn't called Federation, but whatever it was called -- from that little house on 4th. They rented the old Heard estate on Central Avenue and that became the headquarters of everything, including some Center activities. The Federation Board -- and I don't know, I think I gave a lot of the earliest material to Pearl - asked Bud to start a monthly newspaper. He could be the volunteer head of it. KURN: What year would that have been, approximately? FEILER: '48. So he got together a committee of people and they met in the house, and once a month they would put out a newspaper. Joe Stocker and Ida Meckler were involved and that's where they met and became husband and wife. I can't remember too many other people. Joe would remember. You really ought to interview Joe. Then about a year or so later - some time before '50, I'd say 1949 -- my husband thought, well, this is an expense for the Federation and I like doing this, and he decided that he would ask them to allow him to take the paper over. He would see that everybody in the community got it. And that's what happened. He took it over then as a private enterprise with the understanding that advertising would be sold. He really ran it as a community service. As you know, he didn't ever need the financial income from it. He had held very sizeable real estate holdings in West Virginia, in addition to what he accumulated here. So he always treated it as an extension of his community service that he served on through the years. He was also very interested in Scouting and holds a Silver Beaver, among other things. He ran the paper in that way until he sold it to Cecil in the early '60s. KURN: How did you get it printed when you first started? FEILER: It was no problem - you just hired a printer. We had the offices at home; he ultimately converted the garage in our home on Granada. He shopped around and hired a printer. Because he was crippled with arthritis there was always someone to be a runner - me in the beginning, and later others, because he hired editors to take it to the print shop. Ultimately it went all the way out to Coolidge, I believe. We printed in the end at Coolidge. At the very last the Scottsdale Progress had been started and I think that the plan was printed. But you physically took the copy to -- today it's a whole different ball game --- but you physically took the copy to the printer. KURN: And who got those original papers and what kinds of things were in them? FEILER: Well, they went to everybody in the community because that was the agreement. KURN: This was when it was with Federation originally? FEILER: No. After the Federation allowed Bud to take it over as a private enterprise, it was the Federation's list which they submitted to us - it was put on an automatic thing that's stamped -- I've forgotten the name of what it is -- but the Federation kept that list alive. That is, it was their responsibility to give us new names or changes and it went to everybody in the community. KURN: Did it start out strictly Federation information? FEILER: No. There would be Jewish organization information and we always subscribed to JTA, which I don't believe they even do anymore. It's become a pretty rotten newspaper and I don't mind putting that on tape. My brother happens to be one of the highest paid newspaper consultants in the country, and when he comes he sees the Jewish News he just shrinks. It's just not a good newspaper. KURN: So it went from a Federation committee -- FEILER: To what it is literally today - in the private enterprise, selling subscriptions and advertising. Except that in our years everybody in the community got it - most of the earliest years. And I believe by the time Cecil bought it, it went only to subscribers, but to everybody in the community at drive time. I think that was settled by the time Cecil bought the paper. KURN: Was Bud like the editor? FEILER: Yeah, uh-huh. He ran the paper. He hired men - like Burt Freireich was one of his editors. Joe Stocker was one of his editors. He hired them to do the writing and polishing, but he was the editor, founding editor, publisher editor. KURN: And he would also write articles? FEILER: He did some. He had the ideas for them and then he'd have somebody else write them and polish them. KURN: Where did he do this at? FEILER: We had converted our garage at 528 West Granada to an office. KURN: And then you'd mail them. FEILER: Yes. We mailed them. We had the mailing facilities there for many years and then ultimately they -- well, in the earliest years they were at the old Center, either on 4th Street or at the Heard. I guess by the time we sold the paper to Cecil they may have been mailed from our office. I can't really remember. They were mailed there for many years, but whether they were physically mailed at that time -- KURN: What was it called at the very beginning? FEILER: Phoenix Jewish News. KURN: Even when it was part of Federation? FEILER: Uh-huh. KURN: Tell us more about the purpose of the newspaper in the early days. FEILER: The purpose was to serve the Jewish community in its fullest sense. To serve the Jewish community and its needs. The Federation wanted a paper to be able to serve the needs of the Jewish community. KURN: Education wise? FEILER: In every sense possible. Publicity, education, whatever way. That's why I put emphasis on JTA, the fact that there is a splendid Jewish telegraphic service that covers worldwide Jewish news that we put emphasis on local things, because people want local things, but we always called a very important segment of JTA material. So it was meant to serve the Jewish community. I don't think there's any way to expound on that and make it more -- is there any way that you think to expound on that? KURN: It was considered a good newspaper in those days. FEILER: I think so. Most people considered it a very good newspaper. KURN: What made it -- FEILER: Because it served the needs of the community. It served the needs of the community. It served the organizations and it served the Federation and it educated. It had all kinds of information. KURN: How often would it come out, do you remember? FEILER: Every other week. In the earliest years, once a month. But it wasn't too long before it went to every other week. KURN: What would be some of the highlights that you remember in the paper in those days? FEILER: Well, there was the -- I even have copies of some of this -- the '48 war and the people that we -- the soldiers this -- the '48 war and the people that we -- the soldiers that came through who were speakers for United Jewish Appeal. I don't know that I have any -- you know, there were just a lot of interesting things that went on. Incidentally, before he died my husband had it all put on microfilm. I don't know whether you know that. KURN: Didn't know that. It's good to know. FEILER: Yes, he paid for that and did that. In fact, I think the microfilm is now in the public library, if I'm not mistaken. KURN: Good. We need to find those so we know where they are. So in case anybody reading these transcripts would be able to go directly to the source. FEILER: I think Barry Goldwater bought a full microfilm copy. I don't know why, but it seems to me I remember that he did. I don't particularly remember any of the -- I think I would remember more of the some of the strain of having that office in my garage and having the same telephone number that answered both for the office, and the kinds of things that went on with people. Because of Bud's health that's where his office had to be - it had to be in his home. So there were times that there was a lot of tension, considering that I adopted a child and not too many years later had a child, and all of that was going on at the same time. But it was very valuable to Bud; he believed in what he was doing and he felt he was giving a real service to the community, and I believe he was. I think anybody who knew in those years and would compare what went on after would say yes, he really did serve the community, because he never put the dollar ahead of anything else, as long as it carried its own weight and he didn't have to lay out any great amount of money. Then that was fine. He never had to make a dollar out of it; that wasn't what it was for, it was just to serve the community, which was what the people had set out to do. KURN: Who worked on it in those days? FEILER: Well, I think I've named two editors - Joe Stocker and Burt Freireich. I don't really remember any others. KURN: And who would write articles, just basically those two? FEILER: Probably basically those people - they would polish what others brought in. I did a small amount of the writing but he had a lot of the ideas - he had a lot of good ideas. He knew what he wanted to go in to the paper. KURN: Did it have a slant; would you call it, you know, a leaning? FEILER: Well, I think that we tended to emphasize Federation a great deal. I think what the Federation stood for was important to the community and I would guess, even though I don't remember that it was so, I would guess we would always have Israel news in the forefront, because Israel was making all the news in those years. KURN: Were there photographs? FEILER: Oh, yes, lots of photographs. Markow was our earlier photographer; Al Abrams was our early photographer. I have some wonderful pictures. I kept some of them. Frank Lloyd Wright spoke for me, as a friend, for Brandeis and I have that picture; and I have a Koussevitsky picture that we took for the Israel Philharmonic, although he in the end wasn't the conductor. Because he lived here and he was going to conduct we took the picture for the publicity. Ultimately, Leonard Bernstein was our conductor. I gave a lot of those things to the Federation, a lot of pictures, a lot of glossies from the paper. I also gave Federation a number of things that -- in the early years the Arizona Republic gave us all the space we wanted -- I'm not talking about the Phoenix Jewish News, we're talking about the Jewish community -- and I have a lot of pictures that have to do with those years. I took some of the pictures -- I guess I gave them the originals, but I took them in to a place that reduced them; it cost me $4 or $5 each and I reduced them so I could put them in -- but we had a lot of full-page spreads in the Republic. Does that to some extent -- for example, in '48 -- this is an interesting shot out of the Republic -- front page is a picture of -- I guess I was one of the hostesses; I wasn't a Women's Division Chairman, but Eleanor Roosevelt was our speaker for Women's Division. So the front page of the Republic has a picture of Rabbi Krohn, Mrs. Heller, who was our National State Speaker and I on the front page. In the third paragraph of the article on the front page of the Republic is the mention that Eleanor Roosevelt was the speaker. It was in the years that Anna Boettiger and her husband had started the Arizona Times. KURN: Arizona Times was the forerunner to the Republic and Gazette? FEILER: Oh, no. They were competitors. The Arizona Republic had been in business for many years; it used to be called the Arizona Republican. They were competitors. Arizona Times was a competitor founded by Anna Boettiger, the daughter of the Roosevelts. The Arizona Republic wasn't about to give them any leeway. In fact -- it isn't important, but they cut anybody that would advertise in the Arizona Times - they wouldn't allow them to advertise in the Republic. Joe Stocker was one of the editors of that paper so he could tell you if you're interested. KURN: How was your paper viewed in the non-Jewish community, do you think? FEILER: I don't really know. I think that it became accepted by the time -- you know, as it grew it became accepted and we had many incidents with the editors of the Republic - Fritz Marquardt, for example, if you remember his name, because they were pretty anti-Israel and we had some pretty real run-ins as individuals editorializing on the paper. KURN: Oh, you did? FEILER: Uh-huh, we sure did. But ultimately they came around almost. One year, yes, and the next year, no - depending on who happens to be there. KURN: Why was Bud originally asked to do this and why did you eventually sell it? FEILER: He was originally asked because of community work he was doing and it was a rather natural outgrowth of that. He sold it because his health was failing further and he had some problems with eyesight, and he decided it was best to sell it. KURN: Is there anything else history-wise you can tell us about the paper? FEILER: I don't think so. I think I pretty well covered it. Chances are somebody looking in on it as an outsider would have other things to share. We went to Israel in '59 and stayed for almost a year - we were gone for almost a year, and we wrote quite a number of stories. We took our children and put them in school there, and we wrote quite a number of stories out of experience in Israel. We had many valuable experiences because of the newspaper, because they were always eager to cultivate that, so that lifelong friends and acquaintances from the Israel scene resulted because of that. In terms of early history, I really don't think, Bobbi, that there's anything else special. KURN: Okay. Nobody else who was affiliated with it? FEILER: Nobody, other than the several people I've mentioned. I don't say that there weren't others, but those are the ones that I have the strongest memory of. KURN: Was it a gossipy type of newspaper, like what's going on in Phoenix with the organizations? FEILER: Well, the organizations submitted their material and they were always given space, but I wouldn't say that was gossipy. There were personal columns. Debby Metz wrote a personal column and so did Lillian Feiler write a personal column. They would incorporate, I guess you might call it gossipy, I don't know, maybe not - travel, personal items about people. But weddings and all of that sort of thing always had their own place. They always had their own place in the newspaper, as they rightfully should - weddings, bar mitzvahs, obituary column. Lillian is gone, of course. Elayne Stein, I think at one time, wrote a personal column for the newspaper. I think those women were the ones I remember that wrote. KURN: It's good to know all that. What organizations were you involved in originally as a young bride in Phoenix? FEILER: Junior Council of Jewish Women was the young person's organization before I was married. I also turned some material over to Pearl of that - a couple bulletins from the Junior Council of Jewish Women. There was a strong council and there was the Junior Council. It ultimately gave up the ghost in Phoenix. I have clippings from the early years of the Junior Council. KURN: What were their objectives? FEILER: I don't really remember. Social, I would guess. Primarily social. KURN: And you would go from that into the -- FEILER: Somewhere along the way it faded. It just really faded. Because I don't remember it being around in the years that we had Hadassah. It may have been but I don't remember that it was. If it was I don't remember. And as a young bride I became a member of Hadassah and I suppose ultimately Temple, Sisterhood. There weren't other organizations in those years. There really were no other organizations. In the general community there were things to become involved in and I did, to some extent -- to a great extent, as a matter of fact. But in the Jewish community it wasn't until much later that there were the multiple Jewish organizations to choose from. KURN: Tell us again some of the things Hadassah was doing - you were dropping it so quickly. FEILER: Well, we had our first donor in 1942 and Judith Epstein, who either had been or was ultimately a national president, was our first speaker. Would you like to see the clippings of that? KURN: When we're done, sure. Good idea. FEILER: We began early on to co-sponsor with Mrs. Archer E. Linde concerts and sometimes we would have two concerts, not just one, you know, double concerts, like two nights. We had all the great concertizers of those years, because there was not other -- Mrs. Linde was the entrepreneur. You don't know that name? KURN: No. FEILER: Oh, my. She was quite a gal. Hadassah was the co-sponsor once a year with Mrs. Linde of concerts. That's how we came into the Israel Philharmonic so easily in 1950, '51, because we had all these years of experience with concerts. We had Paul Robson, Oscar Levant, Cornelia Otis Skinner, Robert Merrill, Roberta Peters. We had a lot of -- you know, the people who were traveling in those years. She would come to us and say how would you like this one or that one and we would choose. Then the 200 of us would go out and sell 3,000 tickets. KURN: And you did it. FEILER: We sure did. We sure did. Just like we went out a couple months ago and had a dinner and raised $40,000 thanks to Ruth and Dorothy and I. Just putting the and knowledge and the perseverance and the know-how and a little elbow grease to getting it done. KURN: And this was all Hadassah would have these people? FEILER: Uh-huh. KURN: And what would Hadassah do with the money in those days? FEILER: What it does today - send it to New York which furthers it on to Israel, to do primarily medical work. That's the primary purpose of Hadassah. There are other things, but the primary responsibility is the two big hospitals in the network of child care, mother institutes, prenatal, that sort of thing. Their medical budgets are $56 million. We don't raise that on $5 stories. KURN: About how many women would have been involved in the early years when you were involved with Hadassah? FEILER: Well, in the earliest years -- talking about 1940 -- there probably weren't more than maybe 100, 125. By 1950 when we did the Israel Philharmonic there was about 250 members. KURN: Locally. FEILER: Yes. That I have a lot of information on. Someday I'll dig it out. I don't think the Jewish Historical Society is particularly interested, but I do have a lot of clippings and -- a lot of bulletins have been destroyed, but I have a lot of early information. KURN: Was Sisterhood strong in the early years? FEILER: Not that I know of, but that doesn't mean that it wasn't. I guess like so many people got involved in Sisterhood when my children were of an age when they -- and I think that's fairly typical -- got involved when my children were of an age to be in Temple. KURN: When were they born? FEILER: 1948 and 1953. KURN: '48 was -- FEILER: Sheila. And '53 was Morris. KURN: They went all through religious school at the Temple?FEILER: Uh- huh. Confirmed. Morrie was bar mitzvahed at Temple. KURN: Things were pretty well organized by then. FEILER: Yes. They had AZA's and BBG'S. By that time Phoenix was well organized. Well, do you think we've done it? KURN: Well, I wanted to ask you a little bit about your political involvement in Phoenix. FEILER: You alluded to that. I became active in the League of Women Voters in the early '50s, maybe in the late '40s. I became President and I was a state officer, and then decided that the League, which is a wonderful organization basically educational and not active politically, that I wanted to be more active politically. So I became a Precinct Committeewoman and a volunteer worker in the Democratic Party and was asked to run for Congress against John Rhodes in the early -- when did he run first? Early '50s? '48, '50s - I guess the early '50s. It wasn't for me, but it was an honor to be asked. I continued to work as an active volunteer and did some interesting jobs. When the Kennedy campaign started, by virtue of the work I had done in the prior years I knew most of the people active in the Democratic Party and I was asked to be on the Kennedy/ Johnson campaign committee. Bill Mahoney was the Arizona chairman and I was asked to be secretary for the state. After deciding who I was going to be for I did in fact accept, and worked very closely, because as you often do when you become involved in an organization you see all the kinds of things that aren't being done that could be done and I went to Bill and some of the others and said, you know, get out, the vote drive could be organized very easily here. There's just nothing that's being done -- and without going into the politics of Arizona, because they're very real and you may know some of them, and they may be different today than they were then -- and the powers that be said no. They had their own thing going. The man who became Stuart Udall's executive assistant was somebody that I had met and become good friends with in the course of this political activity, and he was working on the campaign at that time. I don't know that Stuart Udall was as high up in the Kennedy ranks as he was, because as you know he became Secretary of the Interior. This chap had gone to Washington as his executive assistant when Stuart was in Congress. I had lunch with him and I told him what I had seen that this could be done and -- this is probably one of the two most interesting things I did in that particular respect -- and he asked me some questions and I said, well, they turned it down. There's no purpose in -- well, within 36 hours there were 10 people out from Washington and they called a committee meeting of all the bigwigs -- the sheriff's department has its bailiwick, and the head of the highway department was put in as my co- chairman in charge of transportation. They were ordered to line up 2,000 cars between the county and the state, and we staged a "Get Out The vote" campaign. It got about 30,000 votes. So that was interesting. I went to the White House when Johnson was in. I was invited to both of those inaugurations. I was Arizona chairman a couple of years later for the Democratic Women's Committee meeting in Washington, in which the leaders from around the country were called together. That was an interesting experience because, again, we were in the White House. There were just that kind of things that did happen and I did enjoy them. That's politics; I suppose. Ultimately, I got tired of that, or whatever. My family got to the place where they absorbed more of my time. I've always stayed interested and I've always continued to give and I keep a certain amount of activity in League, but I'm not too active in any of those things. I keep financially interested, and enough of my finger -- like, right now, League is doing a human resources study nationally, so this is something I'm interested in, so I'm going to be on that committee. A couple of years ago I was on an anti-nuclear armament committee, a study they were doing. KURN: Interesting. I didn't know you were involved in politics. So you had quite a big role in the Kennedy campaign. FEILER: I had a very real role. I was secretary of the Kennedy/Johnson committee for the state, and I was in it all of that level of operation. That's a whole other story. It's fantastic to know the kind of organization the Kennedys had laid groundwork for years before. It was really amazing. I went to the Convention as a delegate that nominated him. Just that whole thing - to see organization, because I happen to admire good organization. I find working in women's organizations very distasteful because women are so terribly poorly organized, so unqualified, so many of them, to do anything. The good young ones are all off working somewhere. Hadassah in the early years had the best organization in the world. Now I find in Phoenix they're all so old and rickety that it's just not there. You work with highly unqualified people. But, because I'm a very highly organized person - that's how I could step in and say I can see where, if you organize a "Get Out The Vote" drive in certain precincts where there's heavy Democratic votes you could turn out a good vote. I could see that, because I could see how it could be organized. That's what I'm saying about doing this kind of thing. You have to be able to see what the goals should be and how to get to those goals. Politics is one of those. I won't say it doesn't interest me anymore, but basically I find it kind of a bottomless pit. But I happen to think it's probably the most important thing we have left in this country - it's the last frontier for service and not very many good people are willing to serve. That's a simplistic way to look at it, but it becomes too extensive and like every other thing that's organized, volunteerism is at a minimal. So it makes it tough. KURN: I think that Phoenix, and particularly a group that you were involved with years ago, was training people how to have good leadership and I think Hadassah did that, and I think Junior Civic Leaders Group. I remember you used to conduct leadership seminars. I think that Phoenix did a better job in the old days. FEILER: They could again. I've done that with organizing this committee for the big gifts that we have. I went through the Hadassah group and there are six groups and I simply picked the best people I knew for each of the groups, regardless of groups, and got them together as a committee of the chapter. Now everybody that can afford to give wants on that committee, because it's prestigious and it's well run and it's good to be with and success is good to be part of. KURN: Do you think the mentality was different 20, 30, 40 years ago in Phoenix? FEILER: Yes, I think so. I think so. I think there was more dedication, especially among women. Because now women want to work; they don't want to give their time for free. In my years, of course there were educated women, but today all the young women almost are educated. They would be prime material if they had the motivation. But no, they're much more interested in working as soon as their kids are at an age. So all organizations suffer from this all over the country. KURN: Of course, we were smaller then and maybe we felt the need to do more with the Phoenix Jewish community being in its infancy then. FEILER: I think maybe that's possible. Now we're too big; we don't know each other too well and we're bigger and more diversified. More different ideas are afoot. A Valley Jewish day school goes broke and someone's trying to put together a country club, in the same breath. Isn't that a paradox? So, we're not a very mature community. I'm tired. KURN: I was just going to thank you and say you must be very proud to be a part of the history of the Phoenix community. FEILER: Oh, I am. KURN: Thank you for sharing with the Jewish Historical Society. It will be wonderful to type up and we thank you for allowing us to interview you. FEILER: You're welcome. [end of transcript]