..inte: Frank Feffer ..intr: Bobbi Kurn ..da: 1987 ..ca: ..ftxt: An interview with Frank Feffer July 3, 1987 Transcriptionist: Carol Ruttan Interviewer: Bobbi Kurn Arizona Jewish Historical Society Log For Frank Feffer Interview Pages 1 Introductions Frank Feffer 1 Born in Centerville, Iowa 1 Rose and Jacob (parents) 1 St. Joseph, Missouri 2 West Plains, Missouri 2 Why he came out west 5 The start of the family business Jacob Feffer 7 Name of business Arizona Fertilizer Inc Agrochem 7 Partner Max Wharton 8 5th St. and Jackson business 10 Active in Sunday School Committee Temple Beth Israel 11-12 His Children Carol Frank Jr. Joseph 12-13 Activities in Temple Ed Korrick Tallit 14 His home Springfield 13th Ave. & Coronado All electric colling 14-15 Neighborhood/house Dr. Herzberg 16 School Kenilworth Phoenix Union North High Rabbi Plotkin 17-18 Wife Carolyn Alice 19 Encanto house 19 Next house on North Central 20 Expansion of his business 23 Lawyer Irv Jennings Frank Feffer Interview Sam Nevins Good morning. This is July 3, 1987 and my name is Bobbi Kurn. I'm with the Arizona Jewish Historical Society. I'm at the home of Frank Feffer and he is going to tell us a little bit about Phoenix in the old days when he first came here. We thank you for allowing me to come in so we can have memories of what Arizona was like, what the Jewish community was like. KURN: Your name is Frank Feffer. How old are you, Frank? FEFFER: I'll be 95 in November. KURN: How are you feeling at 95? FEFFER: Like 95. KURN: You look good. You were born in FEFFER: Centerville, Iowa. KURN: In 1892? FEFFER: That's right. KURN: You lived there how long? FEFFER: I don't think I was in school yet. So maybe four or five years. I don't remember exactly. We moved to St. Joe, Missouri. KURN: I was born there. Maybe we're mishpocha. FEFFER: I couldn't say. KURN: Your parents names were? FEFFER: Rose and Jacob. KURN: Tell me about St. Joe. FEFFER: I don't remember. I was only there once, and we left. I was back there one time many, many years later just because I wanted to see what the place looked like, and I wasn't impressed. KURN: Then where did you move after St. Joseph, Missouri? FEFFER: West Plains, Missouri - down in the Ozarks, 9 miles from the Arkansas line. KURN: What did you do there? You were still in school? FEFFER: No. I got hurt when I was a freshman, I guess, in college and my father had a hardware store in St. Joe, Missouri. He had a fruit farm, a peach farm, down in the Ozarks, so the family moved to West Plains and I grew up there. KURN: When did you come to Arizona? FEFFER: 53 years ago. KURN: Why did your parents decide to move? Did you move with your parents? FEFFER: Sure. I'm not going to go into all that history. Our home was Springfield, Illinois. We lived there for many years. My family had three children. I sent them to San Diego for the winter, because my wife had a cousin there who was an old-timer and well established. We called him to rent a house for us for three or four months, which he did. So I drove the family out to San Diego, then I flew back home, came out in the spring, stayed a month and then drove home. Now that don't tell you anything. KURN: Why would somebody choose Arizona 53 years ago? FEFFER: Well, I was a vice president of a life insurance company back in Springfield, Illinois and the company sold out. I was the fourth owner of the company back in Springfield and when my wife and three kids were wintering in San Diego I'd come out in March or April and spend the month or so, and we'd drive back to Springfield. I sent my family to San Diego for the winter because my second child was supposed to have had an infection in his throat, but the doctor misread it. All it was when we got to San Diego, my wife had an old school chum in Los Angeles and she was a nurse. She looked at my son's throat and said, "The only trouble with that boy is he's got enlarged tonsils." So we had his tonsils fixed and everything was fine. So that's what happened. One spring when I was out there this cousin of my wife's said, "Frank, the San Diego Chamber of Commerce has an annual trip on a Pullman train of members of the San Diego Chamber of Commerce that visit the various families in Southern California and Arizona, and I always go on them. But it so happens that I can't make it this year, even though it's all paid for. Would you like to take my place?" So my wife said, why don't you go? So I went. We went to various places, starting at El Centro, California, then Yuma, Tucson, to Phoenix. I was very impressed with Phoenix - never had an idea that I'd live there. It was quite an eye-opening experience for me. We stopped by the local Chamber of Commerce and members of the local Chamber took us around in cars to show us. I was very favorably impressed with Phoenix, never having any idea that I'd ever live there. My father was a very sick man and he had very bad emphysema. So he and mother went to Florida for the winters, which was the worst place in the world for him. So one day my mother called me and said, "Dad is neither in nor out of bed. He's halfway out but he can't go any further." So I went over and saw the situation. I put him in bed and I said, "Well, you have no right to stay in this climate, so I'm going to make a reservation for you in Phoenix, Arizona." He said, "Well, I don't want to go to Phoenix." I said, "Well, I don't give a damn whether you want to go. That's where you're going." So, fortunately, the car I was in when this Chamber of Commerce met us was the passenger agent of the Southern Pacific. So I called him, and I'd only met the man one time and that was in his car, and I told him - I reminded him of the circumstances - and I said, "My father is very sick and he needs to get out of this climate and I have been in Phoenix, as you know, and I was very much impressed with it. Would you arrange a place for him to live? I will make all the arrangements and get him on the train. I will call you and give you the number of the train out of Chicago and when it leaves and the car in which he will be and the seat in which he will be. If you'll meet the train and have a place for my dad to live I'd very much appreciate it." He said, 'All right, I'll do it.' And he did. Three or four weeks later, Dad called one day and said, "Well, your mother and I have decided that we're never going back to Springfield, because at home I couldn't walk a hundred feet, but here I walk on the sunny side of the street for an hour and love it. I don't cough and don't wheeze, so we're going to live here.' KURN: All right. FEFFER: So I said that's fine. Well, he didn't have anything to do. He'd been retired for a number of years anyway, but they'd been in that same apartment house that had a one-horse fertilizer company, so called, one-man operation. Dad had always liked farms and owned farms and so on. So he used to ride around with this guy. one day this man said to dad, we just can't go down and open up today because I'm sure that the sheriff's deputy will be there with a warrant to close me up, because I owe $500 and I haven't got it." So he said, "I haven't got much to offer anybody but I'll sell you half interest in this place for $500." Dad said, well, what can I lose?" So he bought it. He found out that the guy owed $25,000, so he kicked him out. The next thing we knew was that he was in the fertilizer business in Phoenix. So my brother and sister and I drove out in the spring and we were very much impressed with Phoenix and the surrounding area - never had any idea that I'd ever live there. But it so happened that the Depression came on and we sold our insurance company and my wife said that she would try Phoenix for one year and see if she liked it. So I called my father and told him that I was no longer active in the insurance business, so rent us a house. We're moving to Phoenix. He said, 'Well, Frank, what are you going to do for a living?" I said, "Well, I'll make it. Don't worry about that." He said, Well, Frank, this business that I own I've got $200 a month which isn't even enough for me to live on, and I know how you've been living." I said, well, it's all right. We'll get by. You rent us a house." So that's why we came to Phoenix. Dad was very happy, much happier that the family was here. He lasted six months and then he died. Meanwhile, I'd met a man that was a horticulturist at the College of Agriculture in Tucson. Dad called this man the first day after we got here to come down and meet me. He came down and he was the typical university prof, very suspicious of anybody that was different - business - but we seemed to hit it off pretty well. I said, "Well, I'm here. I don't know a goddamn thing about this business. I don't know whether I'll ever learn it, but I've got a family that I have to support and so we're going to try it.' I said, "I never lived on a farm, don't know anything about it. I sure don't know anything about agriculture, or the chemical." He said, "Well, I can help you." So I went in the fertilizer business. KURN: Now, was that your dad's business? FEFFER: Yes. KURN: What was the name of the business? FEFFER: Arizona Fertilizer, Inc. The name actually became Agrochem. KURN: How do you spell that? FEFFER: A-g-r-o-c-h-e-m, Agrochem. That first year we were here - well, let's put it like this. Dad had this one-horse company, and he was so sick that he couldn't drive a car, so the man that drove him and mom out to Phoenix stayed and helped my dad drive out to the country to meet farmers, and so on and so forth. He met the county agent who offered to help in every way he could, but he said the state needs a good fertilizer company. He said we haven't got one. There's no fertilizer law in Arizona so the farmer is at the mercy of whoever wants to call himself in the fertilizer business. He can put anything he wants in the bag and there's no guarantee or anything. So it's a bad situation. So I started in and this man, Max Wharton, who afterwards became my partner, was an associate horticulturist at the College of Agriculture. He and I became very warm friends and he taught me all that I knew about fertilizers and chemicals and so on and so forth. That's the way it started. The first year we did $18,000, I think, in business, which wasn't enough to do any more than pay the rent and buy groceries. But the business doubled itself each year, because Wharton gave me some new formulas and put them together for me and explained the function of the various chemicals and so on and so forth. And they worked. KURN: Where were you located, do you remember? FEFFER: Yes. 5th Street and Jackson. KURN: Then where were the farms? FEFFER: The farms were out in the valley. KURN: How far out? FEFFER: About 15 miles out of Phoenix. Ultimately, we became a multimillion dollar company. KURN: Really? FEFFER: oh, yes. We did lots of things. The University asked me to come down to Tucson to meet the Dean of Agriculture. I did, and he said, 'I want you to know that we're just very happy to have you, because for the first time the farmers now have the company that's doing the honest job of supplying good materials.' He said, 'Max Wharton has told me all about you and your operation. "I said, that's fine. I suppose he told you how much we're paying him." I said, you can sit back in your chair; the guy won't take anything I said, we've tried every way under the sun to compensate him for what he does for me, but he won't do it. He's doing it for the state of Arizona, for the farmers. But I'm going to figure out some way to compensate that guy and I want you to know it." He said, If I hear of you paying him any money that's the day that he loses his job." I said, "By God, I'll pay him tomorrow, because I want him to come with us." I said, "You might as well know it, because you're going to lose him. It may take me seven years to sell him the idea, but that's what's going to happen." And it did. I sold him as much interest in the company as he wanted, because I owned all the stock. He said, "I've got no money.' I said, 'Who the hell's talking about money? I'm talking about you beginning to live like a human being. That's a fraud for $2,800 a year that you're getting from the University. I said, "I want my family to have some of the privileges of life, not on a starvation basis. That's what you're doing for your family." I said, "How long has it been since your wife has had a change of clothes to go out?" He said, "Well, you're hitting me pretty hard." I said, "Well, it's true, isn't it?' So I pulled out my checkbook and wrote out a check for $500 and I said, this is for Neda, your wife, to buy her some clothes, because we like Neda. She's a very fine person. She's too good for you, because you're not making a living. $2,800 a year for a man that knows as much as you do and you're making all the farmers rich, because you know what to do. But how long has it been since Neda's had a change of dress?" I said, you know, we know you very well because we visit back and forth and we know how you live and what you're doing and so on and so forth." And I said, "Here's a check for $500. That's for Neda to buy some clothes." He said he wasn't going to take it, and I said, 'The heck you're not." He said, No, I'm not." I said, "All right, I'll call her and ask her to come down here. of course, she's going to have to have some clothes." So that's the way we started. He finally became my partner. I said, "You can buy as much of the stock as you want. I own it all." - which didn't amount to a damn. He said, "I can't pay for it." I said, "Who's talking about money. If this business prospers, you can pay for it out of the earnings. If it fails, you haven't lost anything." So that's the basis on which we started. I never did ask him for the money. I forgot it. That's a fact. I was ashamed of myself for years afterwards. I thought about it one day and I said to him, I said, 'Max, you owe me $5,000." He said, "What for?" I said, 'For the stock that you bought. He said, "All right, I'll pay you.' I said, "I don't want it, but I just wanted you to know that you owe it." KURN: Tell me. What we'd like to know is, what did Phoenix look like in those days? Was there much of a Jewish population? Were you involved with the Jewish community? FEFFER: I was quite active. I was chairman of the Sunday School Committee. KURN: At Temple Beth Israel? FEFFER: Yes. I was on the board. I fell out with them, for one reason above all else. Beth Israel had a cantor who was so proud of himself that it was sickening, as far as I was concerned. I told the rabbi. I became chairman of the Sunday School committee and I couldn't get along with the rabbi, so I dropped out. KURN: Was that Rabbi Krohn? FEFFER: That's right. KURN: Were there a lot of Jewish people here then, or a small -- FEFFER: Oh, there must have been between 5,000 and 10,000, I'd say. KURN: Was it difficult being Jewish back then? FEFFER: I never noticed it. I was active in the Temple. I fell out with them because I couldn't agree with some of Krohn's ideas of performance, so I quit. KURN: What, for example? Was it over the education of the children? FEFFER: Partially. I can't be specific. I just don't remember KURN: Were your children in Sunday School then, or were they older? FEFFER: They were older. KURN: Did your children go to high school here in Phoenix? FEFFER: Yes. And the two boys, of course, went into the service, in the second World War. One of them graduated from the University of Oregon in agriculture. The other one graduated from the University of California in animal husbandry. My daughter was just a spoiled baby. KURN: That's Carol, right? FEFFER: Yes. KURN: How old is Carol now? FEFFER: Now? Pretty close to 60. KURN: How old is Frank, Jr.? FEFFER: 63. KURN: And Joseph? FEFFER: 61. KURN: Did they go to Sunday School in Phoenix? FEFFER: I think so. I don't remember, but I think so. We were religious minded. KURN: In what way? FEFFER: My wife and I went to temple every Friday and observed the holidays, and so on and so forth. My wife's father was a very, very religious man. KURN: Was that a Reform service? FEFFER: Yes. It was called a Reform service, but it wasn't. What do they call it now? Modern, or -- I don't remember. But it was a long way from what I had been used to - Reform. KURN: Not very religious? FEFFER: Well, Orthodox. KURN: Oh, it was religious? FEFFER: Yes. Orthodox. The fact of the case they called themselves Reform, but not a damn one of them knew anything about the Reform. KURN: So what kinds of things would they do that were not Reform? FEFFER: Everything that wasn't Reform. The services were in Hebrew, they were in English. They were partially in English, let's put it like that. I don't know. The big important people of the congregation in those days were the Korrick brothers - Ed Korrick's father and uncle. They were Orthodox. Because they were Orthodox and substantial contributors to the congregation, that's what the congregation became. When that happened, I quit, and never went back. KURN: Did people wear tallis and yarmulkas at Temple Beth Israel? FEFFER: I don't remember. KURN: Did they allow women to participate in the --- FEFFER: Oh, yes. KURN: Oh, they did? FEFFER: Yes. KURN: Was that the only temple? FEFFER: Yes. When they built the new temple on 10th Street, they sold the old one to some non-Jewish congregation - I can't tell you which one. I think it was on 2nd Street and Culver. They sold it to this church when they built the new one there on 10th Street. KURN: You used to go to services at the old temple when it was down on 2nd? FEFFER: Yes, and the new one. KURN: Was your house near the old temple? Where did you live in Phoenix 53 years ago? FEFFER: We rented, of course, when we first came. Within a year I sold our home back in Springfield and used that money, plus another like amount that I borrowed from the bank, to build our home which was on 13th Avenue and Coronado, which was I think -- I'm not sure about this -- it was close to being one of the first houses in Phoenix that put in an all-electric cooling system. It was a good house. KURN: Would that have been called air conditioning or was it the air-evaporated? FEFFER: No. Not air conditioning. It was refrigeration. KURN: How did you know how to do that? FEFFER: I didn't. There were people whose business it is and the architect who designed our home, and with whom I became quite well acquainted, guided me. In those days there were very few homes in what they call the Encanto District and this architect friend said, "Frank, you know the city is desperate for taxes and anybody that will agree to build a home can almost buy any lot in town as most of them are vacant." Because that was after the Depression. So we picked out a couple of lots. one of them had sold for $6,000 and the other one had sold for $8,000 and then the people had lost them, couldn't keep them up. So I paid for both of them, I think, less than $3,000 and built a pretty nice home. So that's the story. KURN: Why did you build in that area? FEFFER: It's a nice area. KURN: Were there other homes up and down the street? FEFFER: Sure. KURN: So it was not a new area. FEFFER: No. KURN: Did you move there because there were a lot of Jewish people in the area? FEFFER: No. The lots were available at a give-away price so we bought both of them and built the house. KURN: This was like the mid-30s, do you think? FEFFER: Yes, it was between 1935 and 1940, sometime along in there. KURN: Did you have any Jewish neighbors, to your memory? FEFFER: There was a doctor across the street a little ways, Dr. Herzberg. KURN: Were you friendly with them, the family? FEFFER: He had a family. I don't remember how many children. I know he had children. He lived across the street from what we built. KURN: Is it true that in the middle of the summer people would sleep outside? FEFFER: Oh, yes. I did it for years. KURN: Come on. FEFFER: Sure. When you'd go to work in the morning we'd see hundreds of people sleeping outside covered with sheets. There was no air conditioning. KURN: So it was cooler outside than inside? FEFFER: That's right. KURN: And nobody bothered them. FEFFER: No. In those days people were decent. KURN: Didn't have to put alarms on your doors. FEFFER: That's right. KURN: Was that considered a wealthy neighborhood - Encanto? FEFFER: Fairly so. It was in the old days - it was tops in those days. KURN: Where did your children go to school, was that Kenilworth? FEFFER: I think all three of the kids went to Kenilworth and then the oldest son went to Phoenix Union High School. Then when the next one was ready by that time they'd built North High. So he and my daughter both went to North High. KURN: Were you able to get the children to go to Friday night services with you? FEFFER: Never asked them. KURN: How come? FEFFER: I don't know. I got discouraged. I didn't like the cantor. KURN: What was his name? FEFFER: I don't remember. KURN: Didn't like the way he sang? FEFFER: No. The expression he had on his face - he was proud of himself. I told this to the board of trustees several times. But there was one man who was a big giver and he was Orthodox and so he prevailed, because he gave the money. So the only thing I could do was to drop out. That's what I did and I never went back. KURN: Are you a member of any congregation? FEFFER: No. Haven't been for many years. KURN: Rabbi Plotkin's a nice man. Don't know him? FEFFER: oh, yes. I know him. Not well, but I know him. We've talked a number of times. I said, "As long as you have that guy as a cantor I'm staying away. That's all I did, and it's just that simple. KURN: Were your children bar mitzvahed when they were 13? FEFFER: I don't think so. I don't remember, but I don't think so. KURN: Did people keep kosher in those days? FEFFER: No. oh, some of them, yes. We didn't. KURN: It must have been difficult for them to keep kosher in Phoenix. FEFFER: I can't say. I don't know. KURN: Did you ever join any of the Jewish organizations, like B'nai B'rith? FEFFER: I am a past president of B'nai B'rith. KURN: Oh, you are? FEFFER: Yes. KURN: And your wife, was she active? FEFFER: So-so. KURN: Your wife's name was Rose? FEFFER: No. Her name was Carolyn, C-a-r-o-1-y-n. KURN: Was she in some of the ladies groups, like Hadassah and B'nai B'rith Women? FEFFER: I don't know. I don't think so. KURN: Has she passed away? FEFFER: She passed away. I've been married to my present wife now for 25 years. KURN: What's your present wife's name? FEFFER: Alice. KURN: Is she alive? FEFFER: Very much so. She runs this shebang, because I can't even write anymore. I haven't written a check, I haven't done anything since I got this bad arthritis. KURN: How old is Alice? FEFFER: That I don't tell. KURN: That's a secret. FEFFER: That's right. KURN: Younger than you are? FEFFER: Well, of course she is. We've been married 25 years. She's a very wonderful person. I never thought I would marry again, because my first wife was one of the finest persons that you would ever know. People who knew my first wife and this one both, say that I was a very fortunate man to have had two fine women in my life. That's all I wanted. KURN: You're probably good to them. FEFFER: That's for them to say. KURN: How long did you live in South Phoenix? FEFFER: Never lived in South Phoenix. Lived north of McDowell in Encanto. KURN: How long did you live in your house in Encanto? FEFFER: We built the house and lived there until -- I sold it because it got too big for my wife and me. our kids were all married and my wife said, "What do we want this big house for?' I said, 'All right, let's give it to Frank, Jr." He wouldn't take it unless he paid for it, so I sold it to him for a very modest price. We moved in to a cluster of individual houses on North Central. KURN: Around what year was that that you moved? FEFFER: I would say about 15 years after we built. KURN: I assume down at the Encanto the streets were all paved? FEFFER: Oh, yes. KURN: And there were no horses? Did people get around by horses? FEFFER: No. KURN: They all had cars and trucks? FEFFER: All kinds. KURN: The children had bicycles? FEFFER: Yes, and horses. KURN: oh. The kids had horses? FEFFER: Sure. KURN: Would they go to school on a horse? FEFFER: No. We just rented a ten-acre patch of land to keep the three horses on. Each one of the kids had to have a horse. From that they went into pick-ups. Going back into history quite awhile. KURN: Kids today like pick-ups. They like to drive the pick-up trucks. FEFFER: I think they're dangerous. KURN: I do. Better than motorcycles. What else can you tell me about the old days? How was it different than now. FEFFER: Well, I've seen Phoenix grow from a 40,000-population town to a half million. There's been lots of changes. our business at one time was considered a very, very substantial business in Phoenix. Today it wouldn't be, because there's so many new, big industries come in to Arizona. But at one time we were one of the few business institutions that were doing several million in business a year. And we were recognized as one of the substantial business institutions of the area. We spread out quite a little. We had two plants in Mexico, we had a plant in Yuma, in Blythe. Phoenix has been very good to us. KURN: Did your sons take over the business? FEFFER: One son. The other one was only interested in animal husbandry. KURN: Has the business been sold? FEFFER: Well, for years we had a very fine relationship with the Valley National Bank and on one occasion I said to them, 'You own this company, I don't." Because I didn't pay them - our business was growing and I needed more money all the time. So finally, after a number of years, I kept saying to them, "Who the hell pays your salary? It's suckers like me that pay your salary. What are you fussing about?" Finally he said one day, he said, "Frank, I can't take it anymore, because every time the federal examiners come in to examine us they pick out Arizona Agrochem because you never pay off." I said, who can we pay off when our business is growing all the time and we need more money and more money and more money?" I said, "If I don't get it from you, where am I going to get it?" You can only do that so long. Then we had to reincorporate for several hundred thousand dollars. Never had to go two days until all the stock that we wanted to sell was sold just t o people who knew us. That was a fine feeling. KURN: That must have been. You must have been well respected in the community. FEFFER: Well, the thing I kept telling my people, "Be honest. Lay it on the line." Just to give you an example. I'm just talking now. KURN: That's good. I'm interested. FEFFER: Our office manager came in to my office one day and he said, 'You know, it's a funny thing. We got two carloads from such-and-such company, a supplier." And he said, "For the first time they paid the freight on it. Heretofore they've always billed us, but this time they didn't. So we're several thousand dollars ahead." I said, "No, we're not. We owe it, don't we?" Yeah "Well, then we're going to pay it. Send them a check today and tell them why." Well, that created quite a stir in the agricultural chemical world, because shortly after that the National Agricultural Chemical Association, of which I was a member, had their annual meeting in White Sulphur Springs, I think it was. As I got out of the taxi to go into the hotel a fellow was sitting on the little porch, at the entrance to the hotel - that was at White Sulphur Springs - he said, "Frank, stop a minute." I hadn't seen him in several years. Last time I saw him I threatened to bring suit against his company because they had confirmed an order and then because the war came on and they could sell it to somebody else for more money, they wouldn't deliver it. I said, "By God, you're going to deliver it. We've got a confirmed order and you know it. Just because you can get more money, you're not going to get away with it." He said, "What are you going to do about it?" I said, "We're going to bring suit against you." "Well, we haven't got the material." I said, "That's a damn lie. The whole thing is that instead of shipping it 2 or 3,000 miles to us you can do it now because the difference in freight doesn't mean anything in conditions like this, but when competition gets keen you go back to your old, steady market." He said, "Well, we just haven't got the materials." I said, "Okay, be ready for a lawsuit. And if you think I'm kidding you listen to this conversation." I called our attorney and I said, "Irv -- " KURN: Who was your attorney? FEFFER: Irv Jennings. KURN: Is that with Jennings and Strous? FEFFER: No. KURN: That was the old Jennings? Good guy? FEFFER: Yes. He died years ago. KURN: Was he Jewish? FEFFER: No. We were very good friends. He was our attorney. KURN: So was he going to sue this guy for you? FEFFER: Yes, if it came to that. But I said to this man, his name was Sam Nevins -- not Jewish, from Olan Mathis and Company, a national company -- I said to him over the phone, "Sam, you might just as well stop telling me that you haven't got the material. You might as well tell the truth and say that you can sell it for as much or more money closer to home. But we're going to bring suit against you, because we've got confirmation of the order I said, "If we have to bring all your records, maybe a whole carload of records, from your plant into Phoenix, we will bring suit against you. And it's going to be for a lot of money." He said, "You don't mean that." I said, "The hell I don't." So he went out. Half an hour later he came back and he had with him their vice president. I said, "I asked you before why he didn't come with you well, he said he was tired and he wanted to take a nap. I said, "Well, you woke him up pretty quick, didn't you"' He said, "We worked it out. If you give him your requirements and shipping dates, we'll deliver it to you." I said, "Okay, that's fine." I was tough when I had to be. I could tell you lots of things. We'd better quit because I need to go back and lay down. KURN: Well, these were interesting stories about the old days. I wasn't around. I was still in St. Joe, Missouri. I was born in 1934 in St. Joe, Missouri, about the time you came to Phoenix. FEFFER: '35. KURN: Your story about the people sleeping on the front yard. That is just hard to picture. FEFFER: It's true. KURN: Did people stay outside a lot and play and do a lot of activities outside? FEFFER: Not so much. KURN: Just sleep outside. FEFFER: Yes. KURN: Did you know the Kroloffs? FEFFER: Oh, very well. Archie Kroloff. KURN: I know his daughter, Judy. FEFFER: I don't know her. I've lost out with a lot of the old-timers, because I've been handicapped for quite awhile. We just live up here peacefully and quietly. I never go out unless I'm going to the doctor or to the hospital or something. KURN: Well, it sounds like you've done some good things in Phoenix. Glad you went into your daddy's business. Glad you were in the temple. FEFFER: All I say is that I've lived a decent life and I'm going to continue as long as I live. KURN: God willing. FEFFER: Thank you. KURN: Thank you for letting me interview you. [end of transcript]