..inte: Albert Eckstein ..intr: Shyrle Schaffer ..da: 1991 ..ca: ..ftxt: An Interview With Albert Eckstein January 15, 1991 Transcriptionist: Carol Ruttan Interviewer: Shyrle Schaffer Log For Albert Eckstein Interview Page 1 Born in Hungary 2 Parochial school 3- 4 High school 5- 6 To America In 1926 6- 7 Ellis Island 8 University of Pittsburgh - 1927 9 Educated in Germany 9-11 German history; Hitler appointed 1933 11-12 Jewish boycott; Hitler to power; lost Dr. Riechelman German friend Albresh Bethe Hans Bre Ernst Hu 13-15 Met Liesel Walter Bendheim Alice Bendheim 16 Getting diploma signed 17-18 Fellowship at Seaview Hospital Luria 18 Liesel works as interpreter 20-21 Sang at Episcopal Church Harvey Gaul 21-22 Reserve officer in army Fort Benning 23-24 Son born Paul Eckstein 26-28 Liesel to Phoenix; Albert to Wales Oserans 28 Albert to Phoenix; started medical practice Zeitlins 29-31 Growth of medical practice Katz 32 Joined Temple Beth Israel Rabbi Krohn 32-33 Helped hire first cantor Cantor Chesler Charlie Korrck Diamond Rosenzweig Albert Spector 33-34 Beginnings of Kivel 34-37 Hospice of the Valley John Gardiner 38-39 Trip to Phoenix 1944 39 Return from England 1945 Governor Lehman Stephen Wise James Stewart 40 Started medical practice Ada Case 41 First office Zeitlin 42 Joined temple; sang Kol Nidre Rabbi Krohn 42 Chairman of Religious Committee 43 Zionist organization Ruth Bank Rabbi Plotkin 43 Phoenix Symphony Association Dr. Randolph Dr. Nelson Glueck 44 B'nal B'rith 44 First associate Dr. Bill Meyers 45 60,000 population when first came to Phoenix 45-46 Interview Barry Goldwater 46-47 Kivel nursing home 47-48 Judaica Museum Harold Alpert 48-49 Hospice of the Valley 49 United Jewish Appeal 50 Brother-in-law appointed medical Otto Bendheim director of State Hospital Governor Osborn 50 Five children of Otto Bendheim and Ronnie Newman Vicki Paul Margo Caroline Freddie 51-53 Paul and John marry Flo and Diane Newmark Selma Shefler Linda Shefler Faye Gross 53 Paul and Flo's sons Michael Tim 54 John and Diane's daughters Jennifer Katherine 55-56 Current activities Dr. Roth Dr. Bile Albert Eckstein Interview SCHAFFER: My name is Shyrle Schaffer. I am an interviewer for the Arizona Jewish Historical Society. I am interviewing today Dr. Albert Eckstein, 6630 North 1st Place, Phoenix, Arizona, 85012. Dr. Eckstein is a retired M.D. who was born June 13, 1908 in Hungary. His wife is Liesel, who arrived in Arizona in 1944. He arrived in Phoenix in September of 1945 from England. His parents' names were Herman Eckstein and Emma Eckstein and his wife is Liese Lotte; children, Paul 49, John 47. He was educated at the University of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, 1931, with a Bachelor of Science degree. He received his M.D. from Johann Wolfgang University, Frankfurt, on Main, Germany, 1936 and has been in private practice since 1945. In the local Jewish community he has been a member of the Religious Committee with the Beth Israel Temple 1948-1952 and a member of the Museum Committee of Temple Beth Israel. He has been a Kivel board member since its inception and Medical Director of Hospice of the Valley. His medical credentials include Chief of Staff, St. Luke's Hospital, 1962-63. He was appointed to the Board of Medical Examiners 1978-1983; chairman of the Personnel Committee, Maricopa County Medical Society; a member of the Ethics Committee, Maricopa County Medical Society. ECKSTEIN: I was born in a small town known as Jibou in Hungary. My father had a grocery store there and we lived in Jibou until 1913. It's very interesting in that my father actually thought of coming to America In 1912 during the Balkan Wars at that time. My father went to a rabbi and asked him whether he should come to America or not. Fortunately, the rabbi said that he should not come to America, because, otherwise, if we had come to America I wouldn't have had Liesel and I wouldn't have Paul and John. So, my early remembrances from Jibou is that my father used to take me on a bus to see his father, who was a rabbi in a very small town. My grandfather was a very Orthodox rabbi and probably belonged to the Chassidic group - not the so-called Satmar group, but I'm sure that he had Chassidic theories. I remember also when we finally came from Jibou, Hungary to Kolozsva'r, which was then a large city of 60,000 with a very large community of at least 10,000 Jews out of those 60. Another thing I remember is June 28, 1914. That was a time when Prince Ferdinand of Austria, Hungary was assassinated In Serbia. I can still see the people in the street reading the newspaper and talking whether there will be a general war or not at that time. That stands out very clearly in my memory. I went to a parochial school - that was in September of 1914. I was in this parochial school and I had very good teachers. The secular subjects were taught in the morning from 6:00 to 1:00. Then we usually got home and got lunch and came back at 2:00. We were then studying Bible with Rashi and usually read the parsha every week. That lasted until 1918. 1918, of course, I finished the first four grades. Then I was matriculated in a non-classical school beginning with the fifth grade which was not teaching any Latin. The school was managed by the Jewish community and the teachers were -- some were good and some were not. I was a very good student. I received all A's throughout the four years of my public school. My father thought that I should have really a classical education. Now, Kolozsva'r was a city where there were three large, what we call, gymnasiums or high schools. one was a Catholic gymnasium and then the Protestant gymnasium and you may not believe it - but there was a large Unitarian gymnasium in Kolozsva'r. But the best school was the Catholic gymnasium and there were many Jews matriculated in the gymnasium. In the Catholic gymnasium, of course, they start Latin in the fifth grade. I was already in the sixth grade, so I had to take a Latin exam. I remember that a Catholic priest used to come to our house. occasionally, he was slightly inebriated, but he was an excellent teacher. I took these private lessons for two months and I passed the examination with flying colors. Then my father went down to the admission committee of the gymnasium and said, "I would like to have my son be In the gymnasium." (They call it high school here - over there they call It gymnasium). The priest said, "Well, Mr. Eckstein, as far as the tuition is concerned Catholics pay X amount of dollars, Protestants pay twice that money, but Jews have to pay three times as much money." My father was a very emotional guy and also had a little temper, and he said, "Well, I thank you very much. I am just not going to have my son here because of this discrimination." Very fortunately, a year later, the community established a Hebrew gymnasium and then in the Hebrew gymnasium, of course, we had excellent teachers and I was then matriculated In the gymnasium and I was studying until we came to America. What has happened politically is very Important. After the Treaty of Trianon, that part of Hungary where we lived was given to Romania. My father had no love for the Romanians. When he was in the little town of Jibou where I was born, there were a lot of these Romanian peasants who, If you didn't watch, stole everything from the store. He just did not love these people very much. I don't know that he had racial prejudice, but he Just didn't love these Romanians and he didn't want the whole family to be living In Romania. By that time, of course, we were seven children. Another thing probably stands out in my memory. I don't know how important that is and I'm going to show it to you. My father wanted to have, when we were already four, to send a picture to my grandfather. But what has happened is that my mother took us to the photographer and this is the picture that we had. This is me and this is my brother, Louie, and this is Lillian and this is my brother, Ernst. When the picture came home and we got It, my father Just blew his temper. "How can I send this picture to my father without the children having a hat?" So, my mother had to take me back to the photographer and this is the result of the photographer. SCHAFFER: That's wonderful. ECKSTEIN: This is interesting? SCHAFFER: Yes, very interesting. ECKSTEIN: So, anyway, my father already had three sisters and a brother in America and they came before the first World War. Finally, he got a visa and he came in 1923 in October. We came to America, then, In 1926. But I want to tell you a very interesting story. The number of the visas at that time In Romania after the Immigration laws was 606 for the whole year. I used to visit my grandfather who lived also very close to Jibou when I was a small kid. I came back one day and there was a Jewish lady at the railroad station and she said that she got the visa and she's going to America. I said, "Well, how was it possible for you to get the visa to America?" At first she didn't want to tell me, but then she said the following: "There is a guy down In Bucharest at the United States lines who can be persuaded with a little amount of money for you to get the visa." So, I was not more than 16-1/2 years of age and I took upon myself -- of course, I was the oldest of the brothers and sisters -- I went down to Bucharest on my own and looked up the United States lines. There was this agent and I think he was Jewish and talked to him about It. At first he didn't want to talk about It at all, but I said, "Look here, I know that this happened and that you can help us a great deal." Finally, he confessed that he can do this for $150. So then I had to write to my father and got the money and finally, on January 7, 1926, all of us - my mother and the 7 children - went to Bucharest and we got the visa. By that time I knew some English because I had taken some private lessons. The counsel asked me, "What are you going to do in America?" I said, "I really want to go to university." By that time I had almost completed high school and I said that I may have to go to one year of high school In America and then I want to go to the university. But we got the visa and finally, on February 22, 1926, we went to Bremen where we had to take a German ship. You had to be there almost five days earlier where we were examined medically also. So, finally, we arrived in New York. There is also an interesting thing that happened in New York. Of course, all of us came to Ellis Island, because we didn't come second class. We came third class. We went to Ellis Island and over there, there was an examination. Now, my brother, Saul, was a very sick boy. Just two months before we came to America he had scarlet fever and he really didn't look very good. The immigration officer shouted at him, "Hat Meghet". That means six and seven in Hungary. The boy really was very scared and he thought that the boy was mentally defective. So what happened is that the Ellis Island doctor said, "Well, it may be possible that he may have to return back. Who is going to do that?" I said, "If he has to go back to Europe, I will take him back." The family finally, after six or seven days, were released. My father, with his brother, lived in New York. My father had an apartment in Pittsburgh and took the family back. Three days after that they took some blood tests and various other things on my brother, who was then 7 years old, and finally I was also released and took the train back to Pittsburgh. SCHAFFER: Thank you very much. I want to hear a little bit about what happened next. You got to Pittsburgh with your family. Tell me a little bit about your life in Pittsburgh, how long you were there and what you did when you were there. ECKSTEIN: Well, when I came to Pittsburgh my brother, Louis, had already been trained very well as a jeweler and he had a job. But I said to my father that I really would like to go to the university and my father said, "Well, look here, we are seven of us and I don't think I will be able to support you." So, I decided that I'm going to work for a year and I worked from 1926 until 1927, worked in a dry goods store. Very interestingly, for one summer, I worked for Mr. Ander's father who was on Fifth Avenue in New York, in Pittsburgh. I worked for one summer there. Of course, I didn't tell them that I'm going to work for two months or three months, but I worked for them. I remember really one thing. I went first for about three months to an English school for immigrants. There was a very nice tall lady who was actually dressed like a Victorian lady with a high collar. She somehow took a liking to me and said, "Albert, I want you to go to the university if you can." She said also - and that's what I liked very much - she said, "I don't want you to forget about Hungary and Romania, but I want you to be and learn to be a good American citizen." This was something absolutely wonderful. After about two months then I got a job in a dry goods store as a packer. I got $15 a week and I worked for about a year there. Then I had enough money to pay the first tuition which was $150 at the University of Pittsburgh. One thing I forgot to tell you - that anti-Semitism in Hungary and Romania was very bad. My father, for that same reason also, decided that he wanted to come to America. So, I matriculated at the University in 1927 and at first I thought that I'm going to be a teacher, but I had an uncle there, my father's youngest brother, who said, "Why do you want to be a melamed? I think you should go and study something else." He persuaded me to take some pre-medical courses. I decided then that I really would like to be a physician. During those three and a half years - because I graduated in February of 1931 (I had enough credits that I graduated a semester early) - I had a B average in that school. Of course, I was only then five and a half years in America and I could only apply to the University of Pittsburgh. I could not go in any other place because there wasn't enough money to support myself and at the same time study and pay the tuition in another town. so I applied and finally they told me the following. First of all, there was then, which you may not believe, what we call numerus clausues. That means in Latin that there was a definite quota for Jewish students. out of 60 they could only take 10 percent at that time. Now, who was I who could be admitted to the University - a greenhorn who was just here five years? There was no way that I could get into the University. Then I decided really - at that time this was prevalent in all American towns, New York and everywhere, that the universities had definite quotas for Jewish students. That was definitely so. So, I decided that I'm going to study in Germany. I chose Frankfurt mainly because I knew that Frankfurt was a real Jewish community and I was accepted in Vienna, in Heidelberg, and I was accepted in Frankfurt. So, I set out and took a train to New York and then, under President Roosevelt, I got on a ship. I arrived in Hamburg and then went to Frankfurt and got a furnished room and started to brush up on my German. In my grade school in Hungary I learned some German, but probably not enough that I could get along in the university. Anyway, then I matriculated there and I certainly say that I lived a most interesting period in European history. When I got to Germany, Germany was the Weimar Republic. The chancellor was Chancellor Bruening. Unemployment in Germany was very large and the Hitler movement really got started. At that time when Bruening was chancellor there were only 8 Nazis in the Parliament, in the Reichstag. But he had so many difficulties - he had a no confidence vote in the parliamentary system and he was then booted out. Then came what we call an intermediary government that was - you may not understand - Von Papen. Von Papen became chancellor. Now, Von Papen belonged to what we call the German aristocracy. They did not have very much to do with the Nazis, but they were really nationalists, you see. He was there, but in the meantime there were some other further elections, almost every half a year, and the Nazis finally got about to have, by late 1932, they had almost 200 members of the Nazi party. During that period, of course, there was turbulence in Germany, mainly between the communists and the SS and the SR. Those were the storm troopers. After Von Papen he got also no confidence and Hindenburg, who was then president of Germany, appointed a General Schleisher. General Schleisher lasted only a few months and then Hindenburg appointed Hitler on January 30, 1933. I remember that day because, at that day, I was in the anatomy hall and we were at least 40 or 50 students in the hall, and when on the radio it came through that Hitler was appointed there was an uproar in that hall. I never thought that people with whom I communicated before that these were Nazis or very Nazi sympathizers. I remember that only 4 of us stayed in the hall, you see. Then the keeper of the hall came and said, "You want to stay here and work? This is a holiday. You get out of here." Of course, we had to leave. There were only 4 of us who stayed there out of probably 50 or 60 who worked in that hall. Then I lived through, during that period, the burning of the Reichstag. I lived through, on April 1, 1933, when there was a Jewish boycott and in Frankfurt all the Jewish stores were painted with chalk Jude. They prevented the people to getting into the stores. Well, after that the Nazis very gradually gained power. There was an election in 1933 in April and at that time Hitler had only 33% of the vote. The reason why he retained his chancellor because the Kaiser party - the nationalists, you see, who were not Nazi - gave him a majority of 51% and therefore, he legally actually came to be then legally the chancellor. Now, in that year Hindenberg, who was then a famous general in the first world war, and he was very old - he was 86 years of age - and he died. Then Hitler declared himself not only the chancellor of Germany, but the Fuhrer, so called Fuhrer of Germany and combined the chancellor and the presidency. Now, it was very interesting at that time that I had a lot of German friends. I never knew that they were Nazis. Right after Hitler came into power these students finally never sat near me - didn't talk to me, never sat really near to me. I never thought that any of them, probably, some of them - I knew some of them were Nazis, but not all of them. There was only one student who sat right near me and talked to me, was brave enough to do that. He was a Dr. Riechelman at that time. He was also a student. Riechelman is spelled R-i-e-c-h-e-l-m-a-n. He sat right near me all the time and invited me to his house and all that. It's very interesting that Riechelman, who was the son of a dentist, that his brother was an SS man, but he was not. He refused to be a member of the Nazi Student Society and for this reason -and he didn't want to get up every morning at 7:00 and practice with wooden weapons and march and all that. He just didn't want to do that. So, he was called before the leader of the German students at the university. And he said, "How is it, now, that you always refuse to do these things and besides, that you associate with this fellow?" Then he said, "You know, this fellow is an American and he is legally in the university." However, Dr. Riechelman knew that this student leader two or three years before was dating a Jewish girl. He said to him, "Well, how come that you, who are now a Nazi leader, that you associated yourself with a Jewish girl?" He said that in German, you see. "Das habe ich aus informatorichen grunden gomacht!" That means that "I have done that only to get information about Jews." Very interesting, isn't it? SCHAFFER: Very. ECKSTEIN: So, another fortunate thing that I had over there. In order to write my thesis I had to do a doctor's thesis. I then was associated or I was invited to participate In doing a doctor's thesis in physiology. The head of the physiological department was Dr. Bethe, Albresh Bethe. But he had a son by the name of Hans Bethe. SCHAFFER: Can you spell that, please? ECKSTEIN: H-a-n-s. SCHAFFER: Yes. Last name? ECKSTEIN: Bethe. B-e-t-h-e. Incidentally, in today's Life magazine, Hans Bethe is mentioned there because he was one of the fellows who, because he was half-Jewish, he was kicked out of the university and immediately Cornell picked him up. He was one of the six professors who really worked on the atomic bomb. So, his father was really very nice to me. I must say, paradoxically, that my brother-in-law, Otto, has been kicked out because he was German. The reason I could stay because, by that time, I was an American citizen and they let me stay at the university. Now, Dr. Bethe, Albresh Bethe, Hans Bethe's father, was very, very nice to me. There was also an instructor there by the name of Ernst Huf, H-u-f, who was also one of those who did not continue to -- didn't want to associate with me. Anyway, he was finally fired in 1938. He was fired and then he worked for Merck Company until 1945. But he was absolutely wonderful to me. He helped me to write my thesis and he was very, very good to me. Now, before I go further with what I have done, I have to talk how I met Liesel. In 1932, in Germany, the vacation started from July lst until November 1st. I did not come home in 1932. I did not take a vacation, but in 1933 I did. But, I met Liesel on August 30th (sic), 1932. It was very interesting how we met. There was another American student there who was also a friend of my brother-in- law, Otto. Usually, on Saturdays, we used to go to a swimming pool. It was a very beautiful day on a Saturday afternoon on August 20th (sic). He sat there and I saw Liesel come by there and I said, "Will you keep my purse there?" Because Liesel knew him through her brother, so they knew each other. This fellow by the name of Singerman, who also was there as a medical student, was sort of a playboy - he never finished. Anyway, he said, "Well, I'm going to keep it for you provided you come here with this other American student and I want you to play bridge with us." So she came back and there was Mr. Singerman and this fellow Cohen from Brooklyn and myself and Liesel. We played bridge there for about an hour or two. Now, I was very much distracted because this fellow from Brooklyn was a little bit uncouth. Each time a lass came by he made some remarks and all that stuff. I didn't pay very much attention to Liesel. So, on the following Monday, which was the 22nd of August in 1933, I went swimming because it was a vacation. I went swimming and lo and behold, on the other side of the pool, I saw Liesel there sitting with her aunt. Her aunt was Walter Bendheim's (who lives here now) mother, Alice Bendheim. I don't know whether you knew about her. They were sitting together and I was looking at her and she was looking at me. Finally, I think she told me that her aunt told her, "Why don't you go over there?" Liesel, of course, says, "I'm not going to go over there. If he wants to see me ...." So, finally, I went over there and we talked. Liesel said to me, "Would you like to come tomorrow night for dinner?" I said, "Well, I wouldn't mind." So, I went there on that Tuesday night and Liesel's parents were fairly well-to-do and they had a housekeeper who was there. I didn't know that the parents were not in the house, because they were on a vacation in a nearby little city. so, we had a steak dinner and it was very nice. In the meantime, Liesel's youngest brother, Paul, came home and he sat there and he sat there and we found it difficult to get rid of him. Finally, he went to bed and I didn't come home until about 2:00 or 3:00 in the morning. So, that's how it started. SCHAFFER: It's wonderful. That's very interesting. Now, what I'd like you to do - we've got wonderful information about your young life and how you lived In Hungary and everything that happened to you later on, your curriculum, your education. Now, would you talk to us a little bit about how you came back to America and I'm particularly interested how you came to Arizona. That's what I'd like to know next, please. ECKSTEIN: Well, in Pittsburgh I participated in the Young Men's Hebrew Association. They had a choir and I had a very good voice and I sang in that choir. There was a lady by the name of Mrs. Buka, B-u-k-a, who took a liking to me. she said that she is going to make arrangements for me when I come back from medical school and have my degree to be an intern in the hospital. I was accepted to be an intern at Montefiore Hospital in Pittsburgh. In the meantime, I came home in 1936. There are other things that I really should mention. The dean of the university had to sign my diploma. It was very interesting, in the German system you have to appear before the professor in every subject. My examination actually lasted from March until May 6, but I passed with 7 A's, 4 B's and 3 C's. At any rate, the dean of the medical school - I found out later that he was a Nazi. He had a wooden hand and he was capable. At first he said, 'I don't think I can sign this diploma. How can we give a Jew the honor of a German diploma?" I said to him, "Herr Professor, look, I came here and studied medicine. I passed all my examinations. If I don't get this diploma signed I'm going to go to the American consulate immediately and make a protestation for this type of a thing." Anyway, his secretary was a nice girl. I finished the exam on June 12th and we already had tickets to come back to the United States on June 17th. But I had to have this diploma signed. She arranged to call this guy who wrote the diploma by hand and she had the diploma ready for me in four days. Ordinarily, usually, the students, the doctors never got the diploma until about four weeks later. So, you see, there were some people there who were decent - not many, but there were some decent. When I came back in 1936 I went to the hospital and they said, "Look, we would like to get you but the chief of the Board of Medical Examiners has to interview every foreign graduate who comes to be admitted as an intern." So, I went to see him and his name was Dr. Hertzler. He was a German, no question. He was very antagonistic. He questioned everything - how did you get, what kind of a diploma you got, I don't know whether you have these documents, these are all in German - they have to be translated and they have to be certified by the American consulate. The thing started on July 1st and I was there on June 20th. There was no way that I can get this done. Anyway, during that summer, which was the most miserable period in our lives - I was in Pittsburgh with my parents and Liesel was there. There were six other children, all of us at home. Here I am, a graduate of a university, a doctor, and had to take this terrible, terrible humiliation to be a burden on my family and all that. All summer we worked to get these papers and I got them. I wrote back to Germany and they gave me -- the dean of the university has changed to another professor who was not a Nazi -- anyway, he gave me this certificate that if I would not be a Jew I would be able to practice in Germany. So, I had all these things back and by that time it was September. I had to wait again until next January or probably next July before I could get anything in Pennsylvania. But New York was very, very liberal at that time. It was much easier for a foreign graduate to get an internship. Until January of 1937, probably we decided in September, that we are going to go to New York. In New York Liesel had family who were not close relatives, who were two very famous doctors. Their name was Luria. They came from the famous, famous family of Luria from the Middle Ages. Anyway, they were not very, very religious at this time. But anyway, he was able to get me a fellowship at Seaview Hospital in Staten Island. I was able to be there. I didn't get any money, but they were able to pay my keep and I lived in the hospital and had my meals there. In the meantime, Liesel, when we got there, got a job with a liquor company. The president of the liquor company was the son of a cousin of my mother-in-law. They were importers of Benedictine and various other types of liquors. You probably heard the name of Julius Wile and Company. If you ever drink Benedictine you will see that on the bottle is still Julius Wile. But anyway, she got a job there as an interpreter, because Liesel, while I was studying medicine, she went to Heidelberg as an interpreter. She used to translate the letters. In those days, you have to rush them to the boat - there was no flying of any kind. She was interpreting and translating from English to German and French. Her salary was $18 at that time. No, they did pay me $15 at the Seaview Hospital, so we had almost $100 to live on. Finally, Liesel had a friend who had a one-bedroom apartment. She also came from Germany and she knew Liesel from Frankfurt. When I was there I got, finally, an internship in Staten Island in New York. That was in January of 1937. I was getting $35 a month and I was on four days and off one afternoon. By that time Liesel had lived with this friend of hers who had this apartment. I used to come in and had the living room to sleep and she had a bedroom. That was on until I finally, in 1937, left, and got my New York license. I was able to take my examination and I was licensed in New York City. I knew that if I was licensed in New York state that I was able to get a job with the United States government. I applied and at first they said that I had to be a reserve officer -- It was an irony that an American student had to go to Germany to get a medical diploma - Nazi Germany. It's really an irony of fate that I had to go to Germany in order to get a medical diploma. Anyway, when I finished my internship and also had two years residency at Seaview Hospital, by that time it was 1939. At Seaview Hospital as a resident I was getting $100 and Liesel was making $25, so that means' we had $200. on that we lived very comfortably, because right on Broadway you could go to a French restaurant for 65 cents a full course meal and for 75 and 90 cents a five-course meal, supper with dessert and wine. Liesel went to those stores where you could get breakfast for 10 cents. I really don't like to go back to the past when I was in Frankfurt in Germany, but I must say this. When I knew Liesel I usually was invited many times to the family. But, at first, I was an Eastern Jew and a very poor student and Liesel came from a fairly affluent family. When I got there first when I was invited there, I never went to them without bringing something and I always brought some flowers. I was living at that time on $25 a month in Germany. That was 100 marks and on that I lived. In the meantime, when Hitler came into power, he devaluated the marks and I was living on 140 marks. I always went there with a bunch of flowers, but sometimes it happened that I didn't have any money and it was the end of the month. So, I usually had a very nice black suit and I went to a pawn shop and usually pawned a suit, because my money used to come in on the first of the month and I pawned the suit in order to get some money to go and bring some flowers. In the meantime, I also was making a little money because I had a fairly good voice and I sang at the Reform temple in Frankfurt every Friday night and Saturday morning. Incidentally, when I was in Pittsburgh at the university on Saturdays I used to sing in a synagogue in a choir. You just don't believe this, but the conductor of the choir, the Young Men's Hebrew Association, said to me - and he was Harvey Gaul, very nice fellow, and he was the organist at the Episcopal Church downtown - and he came to me and said, "Albert, would you like to sing in my church on Sunday mornings?" The pay was $5 each Sunday morning. I said, "How could I do that?" He said, "What do you mean, how could you do that? Every one of those people singing In the Rodeph sholom reform temple were not Jewish over there, they all have questions. They're not Jews. So you can come here and sing." My father, of course, did not know about this. He may have, but every Sunday morning I got up and put my good clothes on, you know, those hard colors, and went downtown and sang for $5. You know, $5 in those days on Sunday was a heck of a lot of money. In the meantime, when I was in Pittsburgh, I also tutored people in Hebrew. I also taught in the Hebrew school at the synagogue. This was just on the side. SCHAFFER: You're singing in the temple and you also sang in the Episcopal Church? ECKSTEIN: Right. So, at that time, when I was a student, I supported myself. My father did not give me one penny during the time I was in college, but when I went to Germany an uncle helped me and gave me my initial money which I repaid. He gave me $300 when I went to Germany and that lasted for a long time. Then my father started -- and along with my brothers, I got $25 a month. With the money I got from the temple in Frankfurt, I was able to get by. SCHAFFER: You were now in New York. And now, I want to know how you got from New York to Arizona. ECKSTEIN: In order to get into the army I had to be a reserve officer and I was accepted as a reserve officer. So, on September 1st of 19 -- just when the war started. Liesel stayed in New York and I said, "I got a job and I will be in the civilian conservation corps as a doctor in a camp where these people were trained." And this was, of course, under the supervision of the army. I then was commissioned to be a first lieutenant and I was in Florida. I had two camps; one was Weeva Litchka and the other was Lynnhaven (?) - no, don't write it down. Anyway, usually there was an inspector who used to come from Fort Benning and he took a liking to me. I was very conscientious with my work and he said, "Albert, you don't want to stay here. I think I'm going to get you a job at Fort Benning in the hospital." So, it came in February of 1940 and I got to Fort Benning. In the meantime, Liesel has visited me when I was still in the camp and she was there for about a month in a small, really dinky apartment. I said, "Now, we just have to have a family." So, soon after she arrived she became pregnant. In February, when I came to Fort Benning, she came to see her parents in Phoenix because, in the meantime, my brother-in- law, after he graduated from Michigan -- I didn't tell you about that, but anyway he was accepted as a German in an American school. Anyway, he got a job at the state hospital -- with the state hospital came a house, so the parents, finally, in the last minute during the Kristal Nacht, they were able to get out of Germany with most of their furniture and silver and everything. so, they came to New York and then through the Panama Canal and they lived In Phoenix with Otto in the state hospital. So, it was already 1940 and in 1940 when I got to Fort Benning I thought I would get climatized to Fort Benning and get an apartment, which came with the job - that she could come and visit her parents. She came in February and stayed until about April of 1940 and visited her parents here in Phoenix. In the meantime, I was able to get an apartment, not on the post because they didn't have anything on the post. So we lived in an apartment - they call it the Country Club Apartments. These houses were very excellent, wonderful houses. In order to build them it cost, at that time, $3,000. It was a brick house, parquet floors - can you imagine that? so, I got an apartment and Liesel joined me and came back. That was a time when I hadn't had my first car. The first car was a 1936 Chevy which I bought for $300. Liesel was, by that time, four or five months pregnant. In 1940, in June, my sister got married and they invited us to the wedding. Just imagine that I had the courage to take this junket car with Liesel being pregnant and going to my sister's wedding in June of 1940. What was sad about that trip was that while we were coming back to Phoenix we had a radio in the car and we found that Paris was taken by the Nazis. It was a terrible thing. Finally, we got back and then Paul was born on September the 6th in 1940 at the station hospital. In the meantime, after awhile I was able to get an apartment, a so- called apartment. These were First World War barracks in a way, which were transformed into apartments and I got an apartment there. Liesel delivered Paul on June 6, 1940. Paul's delivery cost us $3.33 because they didn't charge for the delivery and for the room, but they did charge for the daily ration and that was 33 cents a day, so we paid $3.33. That story's terrific, isn't it? SCHAFFER: Yes. ECKSTEIN: Anyway, so Paul then was born and shortly after we got a very nice house. We got that in the beginning of 1941 and we stayed there until 1944 when I shipped out to England. Liesel and I were very lucky. I don't know why, but anyway, the colonel of the hospital was very nice to us, for some reason. It was at the time still the 200,000 men army and everything was just so-called army. You had a certain routine you had to do. The routine was that we had to visit the colonel with a call card and he talked to us. Then, later, he came to visit us with his wife and he was very nice. His name was Colonel Noyes, N-o-y-e-s, and he was very a good to us, for some reason I don't know. Liesel was, by that time, seven months pregnant and we didn't know when she was going to deliver. The Louisiana maneuvers under Eisenhower were planned and it was planned that the medical officers at the hospital were probably to be shipped out to participate in the maneuvers. Liesel had the courage to say to the colonel, "Sir, would it be possible if my husband would be kept here, because I am probably going to deliver within four weeks or something like that?" That was courageous for Liesel to say that. But anyway, the colonel says, "Don't worry, Mrs. Eckstein, Albert is going to stay here." It was very nice. By that time, of course, we had this nice apartment and we had plenty good friends. In fact, we had made so many good friends that we still keep. So, I was at Fort Benning and I was very lucky again at the station hospital. Finally, my immediate supervisors were two captains - that was before we got into the war - and they again liked me very much. Finally, Colonel Noyes decided he would give me a large, large room where there were about 60 beds to take care of - soldiers who by that time came to Fort Benning for training. Well, it just happened to be that on the floor that I was on there were some of these boys from the mountains of Kentucky and West Virginia who had never got in contact with any city people. They were all very susceptible to children's diseases, so they all developed mumps, measles, chicken pox. I had these 60 soldiers there, 30 on one side, 30 on one side; iron beds, white iron beds, no radio, nothing, just iron beds. So, I took care of them. When I got the appointment to take care of them - on the very same day - it was on a Wednesday, and on Wednesday afternoon in the army you played golf. That's how it was. So, when I got this appointment I decided that on the first Wednesday I'm not going to go ahead and play golf. I had to get acquainted in my job. Lo and behold, Colonel Noyes came to see whether I really was on the job. That pleased him very much that I didn't go and play golf at that time. Well, by that time, I was making $2400 a year and about a year and a half later I became a captain. That was $2800. Then two years later I became a major. By 1942 I was a major and that was $3600. Of course, in 1942 then John was born, also in the station hospital, also for $3.33 for ten days. I remember right after Pearl Harbor - I was in the hospital on a ward and of course the radio has been blasting through about what has happened. When Pearl Harbor was bombed we were listening to the New York Philharmonic Society. They were playing a concert and there was Paul in a playpen and as the music played he was just swinging right and left, swinging right and left. And then came this announcement. It was just terrible. On the following two days I was on the ward. Then came Roosevelt's speech about Pearl Harbor when he said it was a -- I don't remember the phrase -- but I remember that speech very much. Anyway, I can say that during the war I had a very good assignment and we made very many friends over there. In 1944, however, Colonel Noyes was shipped out and a new colonel came in. The new colonel who was the head of the hospital saw that there were these six reserve officers who already were there for four years and managing the hospital. He already was in the Philippines, in the front, on the east. Then he saw us over there and he said, "I'm going to get your butt out of here." So, I got orders immediately after that, but, luckily, I was allowed to stay in the house for four months while I got training in the 135th general hospital. So, we were able to stay there. In May of 19 -- I got orders to go, but we didn't know where. But anyway, I got terminal leave and I brought Liesel to Phoenix. SCHAFFER: When was this? ECKSTEIN: This was in May of 1944, just before D-Day. So, right across at that time, on Culver Street, in the meantime my in-laws lived because Otto also went to the army - 719 East Culver, right across from where the Oserans lived. They became very good friends and they had a duplex apartment there and they said that if Albert comes here and Liesel will be able to get this duplex apartment. When I came here and wanted to get the apartment the OPA, Office of Price Administration, had to approve anybody who had to have an apartment. Do you know what they said? "You are not and I was in uniform they said, "You are not really essential to the war effort. We have to give this apartment to somebody who works in a war industry here." That was another terrible, terrible disappointment. So, here I was, there was Liesel and the two kids - Paul was 5, John was 3 and we had to stay with the in-laws who had just a very modest house on 719 East Culver. It was a terrible thing for me, because we could not afford -- oh, I could afford a house or something like that, but we couldn't afford $200 or $300 a month to pay rent. We just could not afford it. So, I went to Fort Benning. My army service really was very pleasant. we made a lot of friends and I had a lot of training there, because two hospitals had their doctors trained there for going overseas - one of us from St. Louis Washington Medical School and one was from New Orleans. These professors came there and they stayed there nine months before they were shipped overseas. Of course, I learned a great deal. So much so that when I took my board in internal medicine in America the doctors acknowledged the training over there and I didn't have to go and have another three year training in a hospital. When we left Fort Benning we bad no idea where we were going, but as soon as we went on a train and looked at the sun and I saw that the train was going east I knew that I'm never going to go to the Asian theatre and I was very fortunate about that. Anyway, we went to Boston and there was a big camp there. A few days later we boarded the Aquitania and went to England and landed in Wales. It was interesting that coming to the United States with Liesel in 1936 we were also on the Aquitania. So, we went over there and arrived in Wales and there were a lot of hospitals built and I was on the medical service. I had, again, a good relationship with the doctors and had good training there. It was very interesting, also, a coincidence, that Otto was also then already in Europe and he was with a station hospital very close to the front. We used to get these patients from the front. one day I got a medical record and I recognized Otto's handwriting who was in the station hospital and it came to us to the general hospital for treatment. Is that too much what I'm talking about? SCHAFFER: No, that's wonderful. ECKSTEIN: Okay. When I came back to Phoenix I arrived here on Paul's birthday. I had a license in New York and New York had a reciprocity with Arizona, except that you had to take what they call a Basic Science examination. The examination was scheduled to be on September 18 and the next was in January. So I said, "I'm going to take this exam." Everybody said don't take it, because you're just not going to pass it the first time. I did find out that Grunow Clinic in the library had some questions from previous exams, so I went to the Clinic and got all those questions and, in a way, learned the type of questions they're going to ask me. Anyway, I went there and, lo and behold, to everybody's surprise, I passed the exam and I got my Arizona license. The thing was, first, to get an apartment and get an office. There was no way at that time that you could get any office space here. Nothing. SCHAFFER: What year was this? ECKSTEIN: In 1945, after I got my Arizona license. I also had to stay with the in-laws with the two kids. It was terrible, terrible. So, what happened was that I couldn't get an apartment and I couldn't get an office. I started to practice out of the medical bag. I was very fortunate again that there was a medical directory managed by Miss Case. She and her aunt were managing this medical directory. Again, we introduced ourselves and she referred to me a lot of cases and for the first two months I did nothing else but make house calls - just made house calls. Finally, again, it's very interesting what happened. After that, finally, around December of 1945, right across from Good Samaritan Hospital there was an old house, an old wooden house which was available for us to live In. The house was owned by the Zeitlins. It was interestin that OPA only allowed $35 a month - those who lived in the house, but at that time it was empty. But, because this was not really a house, but I was in business, my rent was $135 instead of $35. Then, fortunately, after two months being there in that house my living room was my reception room. My kids were running around there. Paul was 5. Many of my patients still remember that Paul and John were running in that living room. Anyway, right across from that house there was a lot open and I thought that this was a very nice place to build something. In fact, it was owned by a patient of mine and I bought the lot for $3,000. Finally, it lasted three months to build this office. It was a 15 (sic) square foot office; It cost us $15,000 to build it. It was a 12-inch brick (?) office; It was very nice. In the meantime, I conducted my office in the farmhouse which was there. Finally, in 1947, I was able to get a 12 (sic) square foot apartment on Indian School Road. In 1947, then, Womack Company was building those houses and we got one for $6,300. We lived there until 1951 when, finally, then we moved to Flower Circle where we had really a very nice house. That was a 2,400 square foot house and we lived there until 1961 and then we moved over here. Anyway, my practice very gradually grew and I had a very good following. Finally, we became fairly comfortable by 1948. In fact, there was a family here by the name of Katz - probably Phoenix people will remember Katz. He had a very severe emphysema and I used to make very frequent house calls there in the middle of the night. He became many times unconscious and I have treated him. His children lived in Washington and I told the family, "Now, look here, you don't want to stay here. You have to go back to Washington." "How can we go back?" "Well," I said, "you can fly them back." "How about you taking them back on the train?" So, in 1949, finally, after treating him for three years and keeping him alive, we got a compartment in a train and I took him back to Washington. on the train, again, he had those attacks where he became completely unconscious, but I had the medication and I had the oxygen tank and everything. Finally, by the time we arrived in Washington he was okay. He was a very nice guy. He was a great Zionist and we talked about things and he liked me very much and I liked him very much. I built up a very nice practice and, in fact, when I retired in 1978 -- of course, I didn't tell you anything what happened in the meantime. Probably I should tell you that. So, I was in solo practice until 1961. In 1951 I took my Board of Internal Medicine and I passed that. I went in the army as a reserve officer until I had 20 years of service and I did that mainly because at that time they passed a law that if you are 20 years in the reserve you might get a pension, and I did. It was a good idea, but there was a risk there. When the Korean War was declared I had probably the risk that we could be shipped out to Korea, but, luckily, we were not. So, my practice grew very gradually and by 1961 we were pretty comfortable. SCHAFFER: I would like to know a little bit about what Phoenix was like in those days. I know that was quite a long time ago. What was the size of the Jewish community, who were some of your friends, what was your involvement with the temple at the very beginning - something about the Jewish community at that time. ECKSTEIN: Well, I really became involved with the Jewish community. Rabbi Krohn, who was then rabbi at Temple Beth Israel, came to our house and asked us to be members. At that time the temple was on Culver, do you remember? SCHAFFER: Yes. ECKSTEIN: The temple was on Culver Street and we became members. In fact, the children started to go to school there and, in fact, one Yom Kippur, one Yom Kippur evening, Rabbi Krohn asked me to sing the Kol Nidre. I did that at the Phoenix College auditorium at that time. We had only non-Jews in the choir. Then I became very active in the Jewish community and especially at the temple and on the Religious Committee. In fact, I was instrumental with another member of the congregation to have a cantor. I wanted to have a cantor. I was very instrumental suggesting that we should employ a cantor and not have just a gentile choir. SCHAFFER: Who was the first cantor that came to the temple? Do you remember his name? ECKSTEIN: Well, the first cantor was Chesler. Cantor Chesler. Before that we didn't have a cantor. Then I became interested in the religious school and I served until 1952. I was instrumental on the board when the new temple was built In 1951 or 1952. So, by that time, my practice was very busy and I couldn't devote as much time, so I left the temple board. SCHAFFER: Who were some of the people you remember, the pioneers, so-to-speak? ECKSTEIN: Well, the pioneers at that time were Mr. Korrick- Charlie Korrick, Mr. Diamond and the Rosenzweigs were very active in the temple. In fact, I remember before the present temple was built Mr. Korrick, old Charlie Korrick he was a very interesting person, very likeable - but he was very conservative and he didn't want to buy that lot over there where the parking lot is. He said, "We don't have the money. I'm not going to buy that lot." "How can you have a temple without a parking lot?" So, Albert Spector bought that lot and I don't know whether he gave it to the temple or whether -- I think he gave it to the temple. So, those were the active people there at the temple. SCHAFFER: How did your activities start with Kivel? Where did that begin and how did that begin? ECKSTEIN: Well, the Kivel started in the following way: Rabbi Krohn was very much interested in the elderly and he and a non-Jewish doctor formed a committee to inspect all these nursin homes where there were some Jewish patients also. They found that these nursing homes were just a terrible thing with crawling vermin and it was just terrible. People lived in filth and they were not taken care of. We then decided that we wanted to have a Jewish nursing home. I was on the committee and became then medical director after the 30-bed hospital was built. But, what happened was, really, that we could not bring those patients in who lived in those nursing homes. Some of them came, but not all of them could come in there. We could only take at that time patients who were able to ambulate. But, finally, very gradually, we added to the nursing home in 1958. We built the first apartment, the Kivel apartment, and got a 50-year loan at two percent and that's the reason we were able to keep the rent down so that the patients could live there. In the meantime, we were instrumental two or three years later we built Kivel West and then five or six years later we built the Goldsmith building. I was medical director at that time. SCHAFFER: I know you've really been founder of the Hospice of the Valley. I'm very interested in how that came about. So you would tell us a little bit about how you instituted the Hospice? ECKSTEIN: Well, the Hospice concept was absolutely not known to me in any way, but you probably know from my past history over here that I was always very much interested in the elderly. The elderly were people who were, with the advance of technological medicine, less and less interesting to doctors. I have to tell you an incident that happened. I was at Good Samaritan Hospital and I treated a patient who had a stroke. At that time I had an intern, a girl who usually took the history of the patient. Then we treated this patient. Finally, on the sixth or seventh day this girl intern came to me and said, "You know, Dr. Eckstein, this patient is not any more interesting to me. I think I'm going to resign, because I have to take some other patients who are more interesting." This was, in a way, unfortunately what technical medicine brought. But I was interested always in the down-trodden and the elderly people very much. After I retired a surgeon asked me whether I would like to be associated with Hospice. I didn't know anything about Hospice and then the more I read about the Hospice movement and the Hospice philosophy it was on my wavelength and I became very much interested in it. In the very beginning we only had maybe five or six patients. We had growing pains a lot and we had several executive directors. At the present time we have Joan Lowell - she's Jewish incidentally and she's marvelous. At the present time we have 80 patients. John Gardiner's wife had cancer and he became interested in the Hospice movement and we just had Senator's cup tournament this past Saturday. He raised money for us. We have all kinds of events. In the beginning, Hospice had mostly so-called non-business people on the board. Now, you know, non-business people on the board are not going to raise any money. But, at the present time, we have people from AT&T, we have people on the board from Arizona Public Service, so these people are really able to raise money for us. So, we have usually several events a golf tournament, a tennis tournament and we have an auction. we have enough money now that we are fairly comfortable. In the meantime, of course, the government passed some laws so that some of these patients can go on a special group and we are able to take care of it and Medicare pays for it, up to $6,000 a year. SCHAFFER: Tell me exactly what does Hospice do. I know a little bit about it, but tell me what it's about. ECKSTEIN: First of all, the Hospice has the following philosophy: When the patient has completed a treatment the doctor usually doesn't have any more -- I don't say that he doesn't care -- but present day doctors are interested mostly in cure. The care business used to be a combination of -- a doctor 50, 60 years ago -- care and cure came together. When a patient has completed a treatment the doctor cannot really - - especially if he specializes -- how can he go and make house calls or go in a hospital and hold hands with a patient? Now, I feel that when a patient completed treatment and he doesn't get anymore treatment this patient may live another three or four or six months. We all, at the Hospice philosophy feel that these patients should be treated and should be treated by going and visiting them and encouraging and making their quality of life better. You won't be able to cure them, but the quality of life will be improved if we have a volunteer to go out and relieve the family if they have to go out and take care of a patient. We have the nurses go out; we have a home care person to go out; we have a social worker who goes out there and makes the arrangements for funeral and all that - the plans for them that the doctor used to do in olden times, but not any more. So, this is the things we do. We give social service, we give psychological service, to make their quality of life better. This is the reason why we have more and more patients. SCHAFFER: You've been a wonderful interviewee and I've enjoyed every minute of this and I'm so happy that you chose to accept the honor of having your story told, because I think It's a wonderful story. I'm going to take this back now probably tomorrow morning and it will be transcribed and it will be put into our files. I do want to ask you one thing. I notice you have a lot of materials over there and I have something I want to ask you before I leave. This is a certificate of release - I'll have to ask you to sign that, please. Do that first and then I will tell you what this is all about here. Now, you seem to have a lot of material there and I want to suggest something to you. If you feel that there are things there that you would like us to have, either now or later, whichever, what I'd like you to do please is to fill this out. It's a certificate of gift and it tells us that you ... [end of tape 1.] [Tape 2:] ECKSTEIN: This is Dr. Eckstein recording the history of my family since 1944 when we came, Liesel and the two boys, (tape unclear)... I received my orders to go overseas ... (tape unclear). We left Fort Benning in the early part of May of 1944. We drove a General Motors car with a fluid drive, I think it was a Desoto. The trip lasted about five days. We arrived in Houston, Texas about 5:00 in the afternoon and tried to get into a hotel. Everything was taken and I just was not able to get any kind of lodging for the night. Finally, we returned to the same hotel. It was pouring rain and I told the manager that I have to have a room for my family, because I'm going overseas and I'm not going to leave this hotel unless you get me a lodging for the night. Finally, after about a half an hour he told me that he can give me the top floor which was used usually for commercial purposes and there were at least 16 beds there. My two boys who were, at that time, 3 years and 5 years old, had a terrific time running from one window to another. Finally, we actually met Dr. Bendheim who also was serving in El Paso, Texas as a medical officer. He and my family then drove to Phoenix and to my in-laws at 719 East Culver Street. Incidentally, there is nothing left of Culver Street at the present time, because the freeway is going through there. The house was completely demolished. We had a terrific disappointment. Before coming to Phoenix the Oserans promised us a duplex apartment for the duration. When I wanted to take possession of the apartment the OPA, the Officer Price Administration, did not let us occupy this apartment, because "I was not very important for the war effort." I reminded them that I was in a major's uniform and I was about to go overseas. Why wasn't I really important for the war effort? But I could not budge and unfortunately the family had to stay with my in-laws, which was really a terrific disappointment. Imagine my two aging in-laws with two wild kids for about 15 months. served about 15 months in England, I was flown back to California on September 4, 1945. I would like to tell you on the way back from England I was on the Queen Elizabeth and there were very important personages on that boat. Governor Lehman was there, Dr. Stephen Wise was there, Rabbi Stephen Wise and the movie actor, James Stewart. On the daily exercises I was right across from Jimmy Stewart every morning. On Friday night Dr. Wise - we had a service - and Dr. Wise was coming back from the concentration camps. During his little sermon he said, in his booming voice, "It Is absolutely impossible that a nominally Christian nation could do this kind of atrocities." Do you remember Stephen Wise? He spoke with a booming voice. Anyway, we arrived back and I was flown from Massachusetts, where our boat docked, to California. I was mustered out. one day later, of course, I took the train and arrived in Phoenix. That was a terrific happy reunion. In order to get my license in Arizona I had to pass a Basic Science examination. The next Basic Science examination was scheduled to be on September 18th and I came back on September 5th. Everybody thought that I should not take the exam, I should take it in January because nobody ever passed this exam for the first time. Somebody told me that the Grunow Clinic had some old questions from the examinations and I went to the Grunow Clinic and the librarian gave me about ten sheets of old previous exam questions. I took the exam and, lo and behold, I did pass it and I had reciprocity with my New York license and, finally, I was able to practice. Now, I didn't have an office. I tried to get an office - at that time it was absolutely impossible. There was only one building which had doctor's offices and that was downtown in the Valley National building. So, I had to practice from my bag. Fortunately, I was referred to Miss Case, who was a nurse and who had a medical directory. She was really wonderful to me and referred a lot of patients from the hotels. She and her niece, Ada Case were very helpful to me, so I was able to practice from my bag. I had a bag and just made nothing but house calls. After awhile when I saw patients a couple times at home, they asked me, "Doctor, where is your office?" I started to hem and haw and I said I just didn't have an office, because I just couldn't get one. Finally, I did what was the next best thing to do. I told some of my patients to come to the living room of my in-laws and I saw them over there. SCHAFFER: Dr. Eckstein, what's the date of this? ECKSTEIN: This was in September and October of 1945. That was the date at that time. One of my patients was a judge and his wife became my patient through Miss Case. She, apparently, liked me and finally she told me that she had a lot right across from Good Samaritan Hospital, whether I would be interested to buy this lot. I looked around and it was on 10th Street and McDowell. I liked the lot and I bought it, hoping that I would be able to build on that lot. Of course, the most important thing was lodging and it was very difficult to get anything even at that time. Finally, in December of 1945, Mr. and Mrs. Zeitlin became my patients. They had a sort of an old house on the corner of 10th and McDowell. It was very interesting that OPA rent was only $35 if you were looking only for a private lodging, but if it was some kind of a business then it was $135. So, we had to pay $135 to get started. So we moved into this old farmhouse. It was a three-story building. There was no refrigeration of any kind, so we finally moved over there. The living room was my reception room and downstairs we had about two or three rooms where my offices were. So, finally, patients started to come to this so-called office. Some of the patients who remained my patients for 10, 15 or 20 years still remember how the two children were running around in the living room while they were waiting for an examination. In the meantime, in April of 1945, my brother-in-law came home from the army. He was also in the army. By that time, of course, I was able to get a contractor on this lot and we built our first office which was an L-shape brick building. The walls were about 1 feet thick, 1,500 square feet at that time was $15,000. So, Otto and I then moved over to that office from that old farmhouse which took about nine months, because the OPA did not release any kind of materials. So, how did my involvement with the Phoenix Jewish community start? Shortly after my arrival Rabbi Krohn came to me, visited us and asked us to become members of Beth Israel. So, we were very glad and we joined the temple at that time. Rabbi Krohn was, at that time, very happy to see me and learn that I had a very good voice and thought that when the holidays came that I should participate in the service. Although the temple had a Christian choir, but on Kol Nidre night in 1946, the following year, the services were held at the Phoenix college auditorium. I sang the Kol Nidre at that time in an old traditional manner, not as the choir sang it previously. I became very active in the congregation and I think it was about 1948 or 1949 I became a chairman of the Religious committee. I just felt that besides the Christian choir that we had in the temple that we should have a cantor. Finally, at my suggestion, we found Cantor Chesler and we elected him and he became our first cantor in the congregation. So, that was the beginning of my activity at that time. We brought the kids usually on Sunday to Sunday School and became quite active in the Jewish community and also, at that time, in the Zionist organization. Ruth Bank, Dr. Bank's wife, was also very active and we were working awfully hard and very diligently in the Zionist organization getting members. I remember that when Israel became independent in 1948 on May 15th, the news come through about 11:00 and I tell you, we were so happy that I just closed the office and just celebrated during the day. My next activity in the Jewish community, in the congregation, was the election of Rabbi Plotkin. I was on the nominating committee and we interviewed several rabbis and finally we liked Rabbi Plotkin at that time and we elected him. That was, I think, some time in the fall of 1953. My other activities were mostly secular. I was interested in the Phoenix Symphony and Dr. Randolph was the first president of Phoenix Symphony Association. We had our first concert some time in the 50's. SCHAFFER: Was there any social -- ECKSTEIN: I would like to mention a few sentences about my being on the board of Temple Beth Israel. Charlie Korrick was, at that time, president and the lot right behind the temple was available for about $10,000. Charlie Korrick said, "No, we should not buy this lot because we are not in the real estate business." Of course, Charlie Korrick was so terrifically conservative and he was proven wrong. The one who arranged the purchase of the lot was Albert Spector, who was also very active at that time in the congregation. I must go back -- the present congregation was consecrated in 1951. It was a very festive occasion. Rabbi Glueck was here to help us with the consecration. SCHAFFER: What was his name - Nelson Glueck. ECKSTEIN: Yes, Dr. Nelson Glueck. I also joined the B'nal B'rith and was active in the B'nai B'rith during those ensuing years. My practice very gradually grew. Before I mention about Dr. Meyers who joined me in 1961, I would like to say that after being in practice for 7 years we finally decided that we were just going to take a vacation. In 1956 we took an eight-week vacation. It was a wonderful time because we visited not only Europe, but we also visited Israel where many of my Boy Scout friends lived. We had a terrific reunion, especially with my Boy Scout commander to whom I was very much attached. When I came back I thought I won't have any practice anymore, but the doctors who covered me, Dr. Green, finally reported that many of my patients came and he took care of them. After my return my practice didn't suffer at all. Now, in 1961, my first associate was Dr. Bill Meyers, who was a graduate of the Mayo Clinic. He came to me some time in May of 1961 on a Saturday morning. He said that he was looking to be associated with a Phoenix physician and he was at the medical society. Before returning home, which was about 2:00 on that Saturday afternoon, the secretary of the medical society told him that before leaving you have to see Dr. Al Eckstein. I explained to him what I could offer him and he decided after about three weeks, he wrote me a letter and accepted. Finally, he came to join me in September of 1961. Socially, of course, we made a lot of friends. My wife had a mah jong circle which included a lot of members of the congregation. Out of those eight or nine women who were in that circle only about two are alive at the present time. SCHAFFER: Can you name some of those names? ECKSTEIN: Yes. I'm going to mention the history of Phoenix. When I came to Phoenix at that time the population was 60,000. I remember that we drove on Cave Creek Road to the promontory before descending to Paradise Valley and looked over Paradise Valley and there was not a single house in Paradise Valley except a couple of trailers. Now, of course, you can see what has happened. Just the other day I read in the paper that our population was almost a million in Phoenix. That was a tremendous, tremendous growth in the Phoenix population. One date stands out in my mind and that was in 1967, in June of 1967, of the Israel-Arab war. I was terribly worried that Israel will be defeated. Nasser was at the border there with several hundred tanks and somebody referred me to Barry Goldwater and I asked for an interview to see him. I wanted to know whether he could do anything with the United States government to help Israel If It would be necessary. When I went to see him he was very gracious and we talked over the political and the military situation and he assured me that he had the Information that the Israeli air force will be able to take care of themselves. This, of course, proved accurate. After talking about Israel he mentioned to me that his ancestors came from Poland and his name, as I said before, was Goldwater. one of these days he would like to go to Poland and look up his ancestry and where he was born. He thought, also, that probably he had some relatives still living in Poland at that time. I always admired Barry Goldwater, because, although he was not Jewish, he always was very sympathetic to our people and regarded himself as having some Jewish heritage. He never actually ever denied this. Let me talk about some of my activities. In 1956 the nursing home situation In Phoenix was absolutely miserable. There was an Inquiry by Rabbi Krohn and myself and another Phoenix physician and we visited some of these dilapidated nursing homes which were Infected with animals and patients were In a terrible situation. There were several Jewish patients in there. We decided that we Just had to have a Jewish nursing home. I became the first medical director of the Kivel nursing home, which at the beginning, was not really a nursing home. At that time, In 1958, we built a building - the original Kivel nursing home - and we had 30 beds. In the beginning we did not take anybody who was not ambulatory, but gradually, two or three years later, the first Kivel center was built. Those patients who were ambulatory were able to be transferred to the original Kivel apartments. It was very Interesting that we were able to really help the people who were there because we got a loan from the federal government at two percent Interest for 50 years. So, actually, the first nursing home Is still paying two percent on the cost of the nursing home. It was under HUD. I continued to be medical director of the nursing home until, even after my retirement, until about 1983. In the meantime, of course, we have built the Kivel Manor West and, of course, the Goldsmith building. After my retirement in 1978 until 1981 I became a full time medical director of Kivel nursing home and I had a small office there and I was able to take care of the patients in the manors, because, unfortunately, those patients had to take a cab In order to see their doctors. So, I took care of them for about three years. In 1981 I think I had a little burn-out and I couldn't take it anymore, so I resigned and I just had another physician take my place, but I remained on the board of Kivel nursing home and was very active. One of my other activities in the congregation was the Judaica Museum. Harold Alpert, also a member of the congregation, was very much interested in Jewish artifacts and we had several meetings and we decided that we should really try to arrange to have a museum at Temple Beth Israel. In order to start the various artifacts I had a collection of spice boxes, I think nine or ten, and I donated that to the museum. In addition, in the first couple of years, I was quite active in the museum. Liesel and I bought a beautiful sofa which was given to the temple and my father's tallis is still exhibited in the museum, but that is only on loan. If I'm going to pass on, Paul will probably continue to have the tallis there, but he can take it out if he wants it. Then I had a beautiful Jerusalem megillah and that was also donated to the temple. I remained active and was in the acquisition committee for several years. My other activities in Phoenix was -- I became the first medical director of the Hospice of the Valley. The Hospice of the Valley Is a wonderful organization which originated In England In 1968. It has a tremendous growth in the United States. At the present time there are at least 1,600 chapters of the Hospice of the Valley in the entire United States. The Hospice of the Valley is an organization that takes care of terminally ill cancer patients. When the physician who is really interested in cure cannot do anymore for the patient and the patient exhausts all therapeutic measures, this patient certainly will need care until the patient dies. This is where hospice comes in. Our organization consists of nurses who visit the patient at home, we have volunteers who are visiting also the patient and give some time off for the family. Also we have home care nurses who come and visit the patient several times a week. We also have psychiatric social workers who are arranging the funerals and insurance and other necessities that the patient needs before the patient dies. We started out with about six or seven patients. At the present time I am still active visiting what we call the multi-disciplinary conferences once a week. During these conferences we usually discuss each and every patient. There are many problems which we discuss and give advice to the nurses and also to the social workers. Sometimes they may have to call the doctors when no appropriate pain medications are prescribed. Unfortunately, in the beginning, doctors did not see the necessity of prescribing pain- elieving drugs like morphine, fearing that the patient will get addicted, which Is, of course, very ridiculous. Actually, the terminally ill patients who are receiving morphine don't get addicted. All they are interested in is to relieve the pain. I am still active and I'm on the board. I was elected to be a lifelong member of the Board. Incidentally, I also was elected a lifelong member of Kivel nursing home board. My other activities in the community were I was three times chairman of the United Jewish Appeal for physicians. After three years I had to give the office to a younger physician, because I was terribly impatient with physicians who did not come across for the United Jewish Appeal. Now, let me say a few things about our family. My in-laws came to Phoenix In 1938. Otto, my brother-in-law, was already here in Phoenix. He became a very good friend, at that time, of Governor Osborn. Governor Osborn, after having been Otto's patient, liked him very much and appointed him to be medical director of the State Hospital. You can imagine that here he was only six or seven years in the country, because he came In 1934 -- what a hulabaloo -here was an immigrant, a greenhorn, who was appointed to be medical director of the State Hospital. But Osborn persisted and Otto did, really, a very good job. He married in 1947 to Ronnie Newman. It was quite interesting that Ronnie Newman was a physical therapist at the El Paso Military Hospital where she actually met Otto. While we were in England Otto was also in England. After the war we had about three months before we were able to get transportation back to the United States, so Otto and I were traveling in England. Ronnie was at that time in Birmingham in a hospital and although we didn't meet her, Otto actually knew her from El Paso. Finally, in 1947, they somehow got together again and after one month after they saw each other, married in 1947. The first baby was born in 1948 that was Vicki. They had five children; Vicki, Paul Bendheim, Margo Bendheim and Caroline and Freddie Bendheim. They all have grown and I remember that the early 50's we had family get- ogethers, especially the Seder. In those days we were already in this house where we are at the present time and we used to have every year a Seder which I conducted. The Afikomen money was one silver dollar to each of the children, which only Vicki Bendheim still has the silver dollars. The rest of them all spent them. Now, at the present time, Paul, my son, is conducting the Seders and that's usually a very big and very beautiful ceremony that we have every year. Paul gives a very beautiful, beautiful Seder. Gradually, of course, our children grew up. As I say, little girls or little boys grew up. Paul, during his high school years, he was taking out all kinds of girls and I always said, "I cannot understand you. How about those Newmark girls?" Well, in 1964, Selma Shefler's daughter, Linda, got married in Phoenix in the old Arizona Club. The two girls, Diane and Flo, were flower girls and they just absolutely were gorgeous. As we were leaving and I remember in the elevator going down there were Faye Gross and many other friends and I told them, "I just cannot understand my boys. I just cannot understand them about those Newmark girls." Anyway, when we came home, Flo Newmark was sitting with half of her rear, kind of very nervous, on the sofa and Paul was taking a shower. He said, "This is Flo Newmark." That's how it started. It was quite interesting that just a month before that Paul, after he finished his second year of law school, came -- no, in 1965, after he finished law school -- came home and said he's not going to get married until he's 35 years of age and wondered if he would be able to stay home. We told him in no uncertain terms that he would have to get himself an apartment. He said, "Well, can I bring my laundry home?" I said, "Well, okay, you can bring your laundry home." But, anyway, only one month after that -- It was quite interesting how the next two months played. In September of 1965 he was home for the holidays and by that time he was burning up the telephone wires, talking to Flo several times. Flo was, at that time, working in San Francisco. He had to return to Boston - that was, of course, in 1964 - and he asked whether he could take a roundabout way going back to Boston through San Francisco, because Flo was there at that time. I'm sure we agreed to that very much, because we thought that this is going to become quite serious. That was on a Sunday about four days before Yom Kippur. I told him that is one thing I don't want him to do, that is to travel on Yom Kippur. Yom Kippur was on a Wednesday and he planned to go back on a Thursday, but he didn't go back on Thursday because school started the following Monday and he only went back on Sunday. In the meantime we had a medical meeting in Mexico City and we were in, at that time, Acapulco for a few days when we got a letter that they were engaged. John was also going out with a very, very nice girl in Phoenix - actually, the girl was a nephew (sic) of a very prominent family here in Phoenix. But, apparently, when the family was a little bit pushy and wanted that John should get married immediately. John felt that he still had to go to school and he just didn't feel that he ought to get married at that time. So, I actually told him -- the girl was a very nice girl -- and I told him, "John, you just can't give this girl any kind of hope that you are going to marry her. You better write her now, a Dear John letter and tell her that at the present time you have no intention to get married." Then, a year later, of course -- the family knew the Newmarks and occasionally we have been together, but then John finally met Diane and they got married. Now, Paul and Flo have two boys, Michael and Tim. Michael is at the present time at the University of Southern California in Santa Barbara and is finishing his last year and he will graduate this year. Tim is now a junior at Pomona College. Incidentally, Paul and John both were in Pomona College, which is a very good school. Tim really was planning to go to Israel this semester in 1991, but when the situation in Israel became so bad, we finally decided that he should not because we were fearing about his safety and, especially, if a war would come on and he would be stuck. So, he decided to go to England and at the present time he's in England. Paul, incidentally, joined the firm of Brown and Bain. At the beginning he was the 7th lawyer and at the present time the firm consists of about 150 lawyers. Paul is very active in politics in Phoenix with the Democratic party and he's a terrific advocate of the First Amendment. He was the prosecuting attorney for Governor Mecham, who was impeached in 1988. John went to medical school at the University of California and had his internship there and then he had three years at the Mayo Clinic and returned to Phoenix and joined my practice from 1974 until 1987. When the satellite clinic In Scottsdale was built, Dr. (?) who was the executive officer of the Mayo Foundation in Phoenix asked him to join and, after thinking it over several weeks, he decided to go and join the clinic. He's, of course, very well satisfied and he's doing quite well. Their children are two girls: Jennifer, who is now at Chapman College in California and Katherine, who is in the first year of high school. They are a very close family. We usually get together on birthdays and holidays. The children are very attached to us for several reasons. We usually spend our vacation in Switzerland. We usually take their grandchildren along for the following reason: when birthdays come we always give them all kinds of presents, but if you give them a teddy bear or a book or something like that, they will forget. But they will never forget a vacation with us in Switzerland. They became expert mountain climbers and all of them had diplomas of mountain climbing in Switzerland. Since I had an agreement with my group of retiring at age 70 and it's almost inconceivable now that I am not in practice. I was 70 years old when I retired in 1978 and this is 1991. At first I missed my practice but then, very gradually, I got used to doing work with Kivel and the Hospice. As far as my activities in the medical society, I was chairman of the professional committee for several years. I was also a member of the ethics committee. I was appointed to be on the Board of Medical Examiners in 1978 and I served six years on the Board of Medical Examiners. I also was chairman of the St. Luke's Hospital Medical Board for two years, chairman of the medical staff in 1963 to 1965. My present activities usually consist of reading a lot. I like to read a great deal. I have a nice music collection and I like to listen to music. we are members of the Phoenix opera Company, the chamber music and the symphony. For the last two years, Liesel and I have been taking courses at the Jewish Educational Council and I enjoy those very much, because I'm very much interested in Jewish history. As an addendum I would like to say the following. About 25 years ago, we visited the Brandeis Institute in California usually for a religious weekend. It was a wonderful experience for us. The speakers were marvelous and I learned a great deal being there. About two years ago or three years ago I felt that providence has been very good to me in Phoenix, that I had to somehow repay the good things that I experience here, both professionally and economically, so we established a Scholar- In-Residence in Jewish Studies at the Arizona State University. We had already two sessions; the first speaker was Dr. Roth, who wrote several books on the Holocaust. Although he is about the age of Paul, my son, he had at least 15 or 20 publications. He was a wonderful speaker and he wrote several books, especially on the Holocaust. The second speaker was an excellent scholar - this was last year in 1990, who had the interesting subject, sex in Judaism. His wife was also a wonderful scholar and she really quoted the Talmud approach to sex In Judaism. SCHAFFER: What was his name? ECKSTEIN: Dr. Bile, B-i-l-e. (Transcriber's note: David Biale) He also is a marvelous scholar of the Kaballah. He wrote a book reviewing Gershom Scholem's book on the Kaballah. I own the book and ... (tape unclear) ... Kaballah is a mysticism. of course, mysticism is practiced in various other religions, like Hinduism and Buddhism. In our original history in the Haskalah period until about the 16th century, mysticism was not practiced. But the Kaballah and the Zohar were all written after that. It's a very unusual and interesting movement in Jewish theology. [Tape ends abruptly. End of interview.]