..inte:

Mary Cohen

..intr:

Maxine Goldsmith

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1991

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An Interview

with

Mary Cohen

May 15, 1991

Transcriptionist: Carol Ruttan 

Interviewer: Maxine Goldsmith

Log For

Mary Cohen Interview

Page

1 Arrival In Phoenix; marriage David Cohen

3 Brothers' business Sam/Jake Cohen

4 Nell/Ben Mirkin

4- 5 Mesa In 1918 Bertha Cohen

6 Maiden name Levy

7- 8 Jewish holidays Rabbi Krohn

8- 9 Siblings Sarah

Mary

Julia

Rose

Margaret

Robert

9-10 Jewish social life Canter family

10-11 Friends Ben/Rose Anspach

Edith/Max Segal

Dr. Chalker

11 Temple Beth Shalom

13-14 Saleslady

14 Father - cigar maker

1 Grocery store Wright's

17 Leisure Sam's

18 Mayor

19 Sisterhood Kleinman

21-22 Husband's background

22-23 Anti-Semitism Blittman family

23 Wedding

23-24 Met husband

26 Nephew Henri Front

		
		Mary Cohen Interview

This is Maxine Goldsmith for the Arizona Jewish Historical Society. I am
speaking today, on Wednesday, May 15, 1991, to Mary Cohen in her home.

GOLDSMITH: Mary, do you remember when you came to Arizona?

COHEN: Either February or March - I would rather say March in 1918.

GOLDSMITH: Where did you come in to?

COHEN: We came right into Mesa. We had a room, just a sleeping room, and
then we ate -- I think there was just one restaurant here and it was a
Chinese restaurant, called the American Restaurant. We used to get our
meals there. The rest of the time I don't know what I did, because there
was hardly anyplace to walk. The streets weren't paved. I really don't
remember how we passed our time away. It was just my husband and I. Then in
July he was called to the first World War, and he left the latter part of
July. I went to Maricopa on the train with him where he had to change and
went to Albuquerque. From there they went on to somewhere in New Jersey. He
was there for a while and that's where a lot of the boys were taken for
overseas duty. They asked him to sign up to stay in the army and he said,
"No." They sent him to Niagara Falls. That was the place where he got his
training. Then they said, "We would like for you to stay in the army." He
said, "No. I want to go home, because I've got a wife."

GOLDSMITH: How long had you been married?

COHEN: We were married the October before that.

GOLDSMITH: So you were newlyweds?

COHEN: Yes, we were newlyweds. So, then, I went up to see him up in New
Jersey and met a woman that her husband was in the same infantry that he
was, so we chummed together. I was there about two weeks. In the first
place, my father --- see, when he went into the army, before he was
supposed to go -- my father said, "No, you can't go." Because influenza was
very bad then. I said, "Well, Dad, he's my husband. I have to go." "Well, I
don't want you to go." I said, "Well, I have to. He's my husband and I have
to please him first." So, he went out and made something for my neck to
where it was protected, so I wouldn't get the flu. So, it was made out of
just cotton material and filled with this junk inside and put a cord around
my neck and I went against his wishes. But, when I came back on the train,
I stayed with him until he was supposed to go somewhere -- I don't know
where -- but during the night on the train the porter came through saying,
"The war is over. The armistice has been signed." Then, when I came home,
my Dad was nearly dead with flu. He had the worst kind of flu.

GOLDSMITH: He got the flu and you didn't?

COHEN: He got the flu and I didn't. of course, all the time I was gone, I
thought, "Gee, I hope I didn't do wrong." My Dad raised me, you know, and
it didn't feel right. Yet, I felt my first duty was towards my husband. So,
that's the way it was. So, afterwards, when my husband came back he wanted
to come back to Arizona. I believe, if my memory serves me right, we did come
back and started in a business of some kind. There wasn't much doing,
because at that time, that was nearly 1919, there weren't many people here
- mostly Mexicans. They would be sitting on the street, the women, in their
big white dresses with their baskets to sell.

GOLDSMITH: What was your husband's name?

COHEN: David.

GOLDSMITH: What kind of business did he go into?

COHEN: Well, when his brothers first came out here -- there were two
brothers, Sam and Jake -- and they had opened up a sort of a pool room,
just something to bring in the trade. After my husband came they started
into a liquor business and then he worked for them for awhile. He always
worked for them. He did, at one time, break away from them and we started a
business of our own. This little empty store was right next to a
restaurant. One day the restaurant caught on fire and our place went with
that. So, he came back to his brothers and worked for them. He worked until
he was 81 years old, then retired. He wasn't retired very long and he said,
"Well, when I retire I want to go to Israel. That's a place I've always
wanted to go." So, here he had a stroke and wasn't able to go. I took care
of him for a short while, then I would have a visiting nurse come out in
the morning. She would take care of him. Then she said, "I can't do any
more for him than you're doing. In the first place, I don't know who needs
a nursing home more than you do." Because I was worn out by then. So,
finally, I did put him in a nursing home. He was there for about 20-some 
months and he took sick with pneumonia and heart. They took him to the 
hospital and that's when he passed away. He passed away December 31, 1977.

GOLDSMITH: When you came back, you came back to Mesa?

COHEN: Always came back.

GOLDSMITH: Always lived in Mesa.

COHEN: At first we moved to Chandler. He went into business with his
brother in the grocery business, but that didn't pan out. Then, of course,
Mesa was where his other brothers and sister lived. So, he liked Mesa and
that's where we came back to.

GOLDSMITH: What was his sister's name?

COHEN: Sister's name was Nell.

GOLDSMITH: What was her last name?

COHEN: Cohen. Then she got married late in life and she
married someone by the name of Ben Mirkin. Do you know the Mirkins?

GOLDSMITH: Mirkin is a familiar name, but I'm not sure.

COHEN: Do you know the Landys? Do you live in Phoenix?

GOLDSMITH: I live in Scottsdale. Do you have children?

COHEN: No.

GOLDSMITH: No children. Tell me what it looked like when you came here. I
can't imagine it in 1918.

COHEN: Well, it wasn't very much, because there weren't many
houses. we finally got a room, I told you, in a rooming house. Then, it
wasn't exactly a rooming house. These people were nice enough to rent us a
room. Then we finally got a place on North MacDonald, a regular house. It's
not too far from here. 155.

GOLDSMITH: Is it still there?

COHEN: Yes, the house is still there. Dr. Yurea lives in there now. of
course, they've remodeled it. I went into the house after they remodeled.
He made a second floor up there and also a third floor. I don't know how he
did it in a one-floor plan, because the kitchen was so small. We even had
the hot water tank In the kitchen. of course, we cooked with gas. There was
no electricity at that time. At least, we didn't have it.

GOLDSMITH: How many people do you figure were here at the time?

COHEN: I don't know what the population of Mesa is now, but at that time
there wasn't very many people. You might know the nights were so hot we
would bring our mattress out and put it on the porch. By sunlight we'd have
to lift up our mattress and go back into the bedroom because it was right
on the street. So much after that, I can say, -my mind's a blank.

GOLDSMITH: What made you decide to come to Arizona?

COHEN: My husband's family was in Mesa - the brothers, Sam and Jake, and
sister, Nell, and she was single. Later on, we brought mother Cohen here
and the other remaining sister that stayed with her. Her name was Bertha.
They lived In the same house that we did - 155 North MacDonald. Of course,
the sister-in-law didn't like me and the mother
thought I was a shiksa. I said, "I'm not a shiksa." She couldn't believe,
because -- that many years ago I didn't look like I look now. She said
something to me about -- I could hear her talking to family that I was a
shiksa. said, "No" and I told her my maiden name was Levy and so on. She
was so kosher that she wouldn't eat the meat that we ate. We had to go into
Phoenix and bring her chicken or meat.

GOLDSMITH: Was there a kosher butcher there at the time?

COHEN: Well, it wasn't much. Yes, there was a kosher butcher. If she would
fix chicken and find a vein -- of course, I don't know about those things
-- she would say, "I can't eat this chicken." We used to feel so sorry for
her, because we ate everything. She was very easily pleased. She never made
any trouble. She was a wonderful mother-in-law. Then, after the house was
so crowded, we moved to Chandler and were there for quite awhile. Then,
like I say, my husband went in the army and I went back home. I stayed
there until he got out of the army.

GOLDSMITH: When you needed to go into Phoenix -- could you do
shopping then in Mesa then, or did you have to go into Phoenix for your
things?

COHEN: At first, like I say, we had no place. We only had one room. He and
I ate in the restaurant. We had a Ford and he never drove before -- that
is, we did have a car when we lived back home. But, we went in this Ford and
it was so hot - oh, it was hot! By the time we got to Phoenix I was wet 
clear down to the waistline. There were a lot of places that sold root beer 
on the way to Phoenix, so he and I used to go in there and we'd go to 
whatever amusement there was. But I know on Sundays there was always a crowd
gathered where there was a dance hall. Every Sunday there was a different
state and people from the different states would come and sometimes you met
somebody you knew and then again you didn't. But we were always friendly
and, there was always a wonderful Sunday spent.

GOLDSMITH: What was the Jewish community like?

COHEN: There wasn't too many. They were mostly from Cleveland.

GOLDSMITH: Was there a population here when you first came?

COHEN: No, we were just two families.

GOLDSMITH: When you first came?

COHEN: When we first came to Mesa, yes. Those people - I don't know where
they were from.

GOLDSMITH: Do you remember their names?

COHEN: It was either Blaustein or something. Just put Blaustein down
anyhow, I don't know.

GOLDSMITH: Did you become friendly?

COHEN: Yes. Just with two families, yes.

GOLDSMITH: Then, did the community grow gradually?

COHEN: Yes. When it came holidays we used to go into Phoenix. They didn't 
have a temple then, but I remember going upstairs to a room over a store 
and they had the holiday services there.

GOLDSMITH: Was there a rabbi?

COHEN: It seems to me that Rabbi -- I can't think of his name. He was the
first rabbi that Temple Emanuel had. Krohn, I think, was his name.

GOLDSMITH: You said that you were born in Pittsburgh and your
husband was also born in Pittsburgh?

COHEN: No. He was born in Romania.

GOLDSMITH: Tell me what it was like in Pittsburgh.

COHEN: Well, I was just a kid. I remember going to school, but not too
much, because we really didn't stay there. My father -- we were in
Cincinnati -- and he would go wherever he could get a job. Jobs were hard
to get then. Then we came to Wheeling when I was 16 years old - Wheeling,
West Virginia. That's where I met my husband.

GOLDSMITH: In Wheeling? Is that where his family came to?

COHEN: No. His mother, of course she finally died down here, but his
brothers and two sisters, Nell and Bertha --- Bertha came with the mother
from the old country when they allowed the people from overseas to come
here. It was through a friend that Sam, the oldest brother, met and he was
sort of like a Senator or something - he was able to get mother and sister
out and get them to Mesa. After that, of course, I didn't live here
anymore, so I didn't know much about Mesa until we came back later on.

GOLDSMITH: Do you have brothers and sisters?

COHEN: My oldest sister is dead and another sister died. I have a sister 
Margaret, my sister Julia, who is now in an Alzheimer home, and myself.

GOLDSMITH: So there were five sisters?

COHEN: We were six girls. There was Sarah and Mary, Julia,
Rose, Margaret and myself, and my brother, Robert. He was our only boy.

GOLDSMITH: Where did you fit in the family group? Were you in
the middle, were you the oldest, the youngest?

COHEN: I was next to the oldest. Sister Sarah - her son now -- she was
married to a man from Belair, Ohio. She was a very beautiful girl. Then he
passed away. Then she had a stroke and he used to come and get her out of
bed in the morning, put on her short brace - she couldn't walk without the
brace. it fit under her shoe. When she would walk this brace would lift her
foot up. She called him and called him, because he had gone in to take his
shower, and she didn't get no response, so she crawled out of bed -- how
she ever did it -- and went to the bathroom and here he was dead. From then
on, she lived alone after he died. Then we had to put her in a nursing home
and she finally passed away.

GOLDSMITH: Where was that?

COHEN: That was in Belair, Ohio.

GOLDSMITH: What kind of a Jewish social life did you have here?

COHEN: Well, really, there weren't many Jewish people. After a few came we
would have Passover at somebody's house. On Friday nights we had a family
here by the name of Canter. He used to read a sermon for us and she would
serve donuts and coffee. After about 15 minutes he'd pick up
his -- not golf balls -- what do you play at night and throw?

GOLDSMITH: Bowling?

COHEN: Yes. He picked up his handbag and his bowling ball
and then he would go to bowl. He gave us a sermon for about 15 minutes and
that was it. we paid them - they were struggling to get along, too, because
she worked for my brother-in-laws In the business.

GOLDSMITH: What was her name?

COHEN: Her name was Canter, I forget her first name.

GOLDSMITH: Do you remember how they spelled It?

COHEN: C-a-n-t-e-r.

GOLDSMITH: Do you remember his first name?

COHEN: No.

GOLDSMITH: Do you remember the names of some of your friends who lived here
at the time? Did you have any particular close friends that you used to
socialize with?

COHEN: Not so much. Later on - well, this family had moved here, I guess,
just shortly before we did, their name was Anspach - Ben and Rose Anspach.

GOLDSMITH: Do you remember how to spell their last name?

COHEN: A-n-s-p-a-c-h. And Edith and Max Segal.

GOLDSMITH: Segal?

COHEN: Yes, S-e-g-a-1. The Anspachs are gone and Mr. Segal's gone, but Mrs.
Segal's still living. Then we would have services. We rented a little place
across -- over on -- I forget even the street. It was a room that we rented
and it was in a place that they only rented out to each person for two
weeks, because everybody else had no place to meet. So, we paid $2 a night
and we'd bake one cake. Dr. Chaiker was a physician here and he spent most
of his time at the hospital. I think he was sort of an anesthetist there,
but he also had an office. He would have a little service. I had a nephew
that was a rabbi and was just starting out. I asked him if he would be kind
enough to send us a Friday night message. He would have his and then he
would send it to us and Dr. Chaiker then would read it. After Dr. Chaiker
quit we had a family that was in business here by the name of -- gosh, I
can't think of the name -well, anyhow, he and his wife ran this dress shop.
I would give him the message that Henry would send me and she said that he
liked it so well he used to stand in front of a mirror and practice. He
didn't want to stand up and be just like a statue up there, he wanted to
express himself. So that went on until we got a temple. As I said, we used
to meet at this one place and pay $2 a night for the use of the room. Then
we got a place right here on 1st Street and MacDonald. That was our first
temple.

GOLDSMITH: What was it called?

COHEN: It was called Temple Beth Shalom.

GOLDSMITH: That was the first Temple Beth Shalom in Mesa?

COHEN: Yes. Then, after that, we outgrew it. Jewish people had started
coming in and we outgrew that place. We used to meet over in a mortuary.
They let us, because we had one fellow - he is still living - he was a
mortician and he worked for these people that had their place over at the
-- I think

it was called the Lakeshore Mortuary, and they let us have a room where we
used to meet. They also gave us another room where we'd have a Shabbas
Kiddush and I said, "I don't want to go over there. I don't want to eat in
there, because there was a corpse in the other part of the place." of
course, we never saw them, but I knew they were there. Until we got this
place where we are now, 316 South LeSeuer.

GOLDSMITH: How do you spell that?

COHEN: Capital L-e-capital S-e-u-e-r.

GOLDSMITH: And that's where the temple is now?

COHEN: Yes.

GOLDSMITH: When you first built the Temple Beth Shalom in the beginning, do
you remember what year it was?

COHEN: Well, this building was used by the Mormons. They
had used it for 40 years and we bought it from them.

GOLDSMITH: Who was the rabbi in the early days?

COHEN: In the early days, we used to just have this Dr. Chaiker or this
other guy. Then we would finally get some young rabbis that were still
probably in their last year that would come up on the holidays and give us
a sermon. Now, we have a female rabbi. Do you know her?

GOLDSMITH: Yes, Bonnie Koppell.

COHEN: Do you know her?

GOLDSMITH: I don't know her, I know of her.

COHEN: Yes, she's very, very intelligent and she's a
Reconstructionist. Now, what that is I have never quite found out. I
don't know whether it's between a Conservative and Reform or what it is,
but we like her. We like her very much and she gives us a good sermon and
good service. I think she got a five-year contract. I haven't been able to
go to temple and I haven't been able to go to the meetings, so I really
don't know a whole lot about what's going on. our dues -- I just got a
notice the other day -- went up to $365 a year for a single at my age, and
families over $700.

GOLDSMITH: Do you remember what it was when you started at the temple?

COHEN: Yes. when we first started it was $10 a year.

GOLDSMITH: Can't buy much for $10 a year.

COHEN: Now, it's $365 for a single geriatric and up to $700 and something
-- I could tell --

GOLDSMITH: That's okay. Did you work when you were younger?

COHEN: You mean, for the temple?

GOLDSMITH: Did you work outside of your home?

COHEN: Yes, I was a saleslady.

GOLDSMITH: And what kind --

COHEN: In a department store.

GOLDSMITH: And where did you work?

COHEN: That was in Wheeling.

GOLDSMITH: That was before you got married.

COHEN: I had to go work, because my father didn't make enough to keep up a
big family.

GOLDSMITH: How about after you got married?

COHEN: After I got married I worked for just a little while,
because my husband wouldn't let me. I would only work on Saturday. He
wanted me back very badly and he said, "I could depend on her. I can go
away out of town and leave the cash drawer to her." We didn't have a
register or anything, he had a pull-out drawer. He made me buyer for the
shirt place and dresses, suits.

GOLDSMITH: What kind of business was that?

COHEN: It was a regular department store.

GOLDSMITH: It was your husband's department store?

COHEN: No.

GOLDSMITH: I'm sorry. I misunderstood.

COHEN: No, I thought you meant where I worked.

GOLDSMITH: Where you worked before you got married?

COHEN: Yes. The boss, of course, wanted me to come back.
He said, "No, she doesn't have to work, but I'll let her come in on
Saturdays if it would help you." So, I worked for a few Saturdays and that
was the end of that.

GOLDSMITH: What kind of work does your father do?

COHEN: My father was a cigar maker and he also went into
business for himself making cigars and stogies. They'd call them stogies
then.

GOLDSMITH: Had he been born in Pittsburgh also?

COHEN: No. He was born back in Europe somewhere - Latvia.

GOLDSMITH: Latvia?

COHEN: Yes.

GOLDSMITH: And your mother, too?

COHEN: Yes.

GOLDSMITH: And they had come to Pittsburgh when?

COHEN: Mother came to Pittsburgh when she was about 16. But, my father was
over here already. He went to Cincinnati. He was a very young boy when he
came and he stayed with his sister in Cincinnati. Somehow or another I
guess they must have known each other from Europe - I just don't remember
that far back, but anyhow they -- I don't even remember the year they got
married. I was born in 1897 and there was just two years difference between
my oldest sister and me, so they must have been married - I guess in maybe
1890, I don't know.

GOLDSMITH: You said when you first came here to Arizona that the streets
were unpaved.

COHEN: Yes. The streets were unpaved.

GOLDSMITH: And the Mexican women would be sitting in the streets?

COHEN: Yes, and Indians. Well, not all of the streets were unpaved. The
downtown, of course, was paved. The Indian women would come with their
ware, baskets and beads and jewelry and sit on the street. They used to
even come to the houses and they'd give me a beautiful basket if I gave
them a bunch of beads. They could use them for their belts or ties or
whatever they were making. We had one big grocery store. It was called
Wright's, with a W, Wright's. They were Mormons, of course.
See, the Mormons founded this place. It was mostly Mormons

GOLDSMITH: Even then?

COHEN: Now, even now.

GOLDSMITH: What did the buildings look like?

COHEN: Well, they were almost -- I'd say, I'd rather live in
one of those than live in these, because here sometimes the kitchens don't
have a window, bathrooms don't have a window. over there whatever we had
there was plenty of room and light. The only thing is we were missing
electricity. we cooked with gas.

GOLDSMITH: Did you have gas lamps? I think we did have gas lamps. we'd 
have to have so it must have been gas.

GOLDSMITH: Did most of the people have a car, or only some?

COHEN: No. Most of them had little Fords.

GOLDSMITH: Your friends - what kind of business were they in? What kind of
work did they do?

COHEN: I don't know whether they were in business or work.
I told you there was just the two families when we moved here.

GOLDSMITH: But then you mentioned that other family. Do you
remember what he did for a living?

COHEN: Well, he was in sort of, what I would call -- I
wouldn't call it a boutique, but he sold a little bit of everything that a
person would usually use. I think they came up from Texas, but they didn't
stay here too long.

GOLDSMITH: Your other friends, the Anspachs, what did they do?

COHEN: Well, he was In the junk business.

GOLDSMITH: Then the other couple you mentioned were the Segals.

COHEN: He worked as a butcher at some store.

GOLDSMITH: And most of the Jewish people that were here, were they farmers
or did they have their own businesses?

COHEN: Well, the Anspachs and the Segals, as I told you, he was in the junk
business and he worked for some -- it was, I think, a meat packing place,
because I know he used to bring home -- oh, he said, "I bring home the best
steaks and the best roasts." So, I figured it must have been a packing
place.

GOLDSMITH: What would be a typical Saturday night? It's Saturday night and
what would you do?

COHEN: Well, we had formed a club where they'd play cards and they'd stay
til about midnight and then we'd serve, you know, sandwiches or whatever we
had. That's about the only thing. I don't remember -- if there was anything
going on in Phoenix, naturally, they would go in there. We had that little
Ford that we'd go in. We'd go in to a movie and then after the movie -- no,
we would go in on a bus. At first, we used to go in on our own in a car.
We'd go in and there was a place there called Sam's. They had the best corn
beef sandwiches and coffee cake. We'd go in and have our corn beef sandwich
and coffee cake and some coffee And then, if the movie was worthwhile that
we liked, we'd go see that. After that was over we had to come back,
because Dave worked for his brothers, you see, so he had to work. Some
weeks he worked night turn. The brother would work one week night turn and
then they finally got another man, so he took the older brother's job off
from working at night. The week that the other fellow worked, my husband
had off. I used to go up at night and just sit in the store and wait until 
they closed up, so he wouldn't have to walk home alone.

GOLDSMITH: Do you remember who were the public figures at the
time - the people you would read about in the newspaper?

COHEN: Well, Mr. Kleinman was the mayor here.

GOLDSMITH: Was he a Jewish man?

COHEN: No, Mormon. Kleinman - he was the mayor. I guess mayor was all they
had here, I don't know.

GOLDSMITH: So, you were here all through World War II, then,
afterwards, when more and more people started to come in -

COHEN: We'd come back here, you know, and see, this was in -- well, we came
out here in 1918, as I said. Well, the first World War was on, because that
started, I think, in 1914.

GOLDSMITH: Right.

COHEN: Then, of course, like I said, my husband went into business. We went 
into that one that I told you next to the restaurant that burned down. 
Then, my husband went back and worked for the brothers and he worked -- 
they had the place open. They finally went out of business, because they 
were all just a little bit too old to run business and it was a liquor 
business. I think they were the first people that sold liquor here.

GOLDSMITH: Where did they get the liquor from?

COHEN: Well, somebody would come up from Phoenix -- I don't
know where Phoenix got it, but this man whose name was -- I forgot his
name, too -- anyhow, he used to come up and get an order. Lots of times
they would buy things that were 13 in a crate instead of 12, which was a
come-on.

GOLDSMITH: Did you ever belong to any Jewish organizations here?

COHEN: Well, we had the Sisterhood and belonged to that. That was the only
thing I belonged to and I quit that. I was very active - not in having a
position - working, you know, just trying to build it up. We had those big
rummage sales and we'd have dinners. That's the way we made our money. I
remember being up at 5:30 in the morning with all the shmatas that we had
for the rummage sales. I must have been a worker and then I can't remember,
because I was presented one night - we had a dinner and they presented me
with this silver bowl that says inside, whatever it was. But, our
Sisterhood was really active. I dropped out then because I was not able - I
was just sick and I said, 'Let these younger people work." We started it
and, of course, we had quite a bit of money in the Sisterhood and we gave
that when they bought this building on the square which we still owe,
because it was a very, very expensive buy. But we're glad we have it. And
our temple -- well, we had so few members.. but this rabbi has brought in -
I think when we hired her we had about 67 members. Now It's doubled.

GOLDSMITH: Wonderful. What are your first memories of being Jewish?

COHEN: I didn't know any different. At our home, Mother and Dad, of course 
-- we always said, "Well, they don't want us to know what it is" -- they 
would speak in Yiddish. Otherwise, they would speak in English, you know. 
It was more like -- well, we weren't Orthodox, we weren't Conservative, 
we were in between. more like, I would say, a Reform. Because, my father 
was not at all religious. He would take my brother -- he was a handsome, 
big man and of course he's gone now and he would take him and go downtown. 
Bob would come back and say, "Well, we had bacon." My Dad liked his bacon 
and eggs. of course, we never served it at home. We always lived in these 
small towns where we had to buy non-kosher meat. So, what was the use of 
trying to -- well, we never denied that we were Jewish. Circumstances were 
so that we -- there was no temple. We had to go into Glouster, Ohio. Do 
you know anything about Ohio?

GOLDSMITH: No, I don't.

COHEN: Because there weren't enough people to even bring in a rabbi - we
wouldn't have had money to pay a visiting rabbi. when we moved into
Wheeling - I was 16 years old and that's where we became members of the
Reform temple there.

GOLDSMITH: As a young girl, did you go to Hebrew school?

COHEN: No. I can't read. Can you read?

GOLDSMITH: No.

COHEN: I can't read a word. I have to wait until it's translated. I have
even my mother and father's Reform prayer books because, naturally, that's
where we belonged. I never got to use it. My one sister was confirmed
and my brother - he wasn't bar mitzvahed either, he was confirmed. After
all, I can remember my father bringing home a payroll of $15 and there were
7 children. My mother, consequently we had a few roomers, a few boarders.
That's the reason I went to work when I was 16. I didn't get to go to high
school even, because my brother was born when my oldest sister was 18 years
old. There were so few places in Glouster to buy things.

GOLDSMITH: Today we look for discount places to buy clothes.

COHEN: Yes.

GOLDSMITH: Did you celebrate the Jewish holidays in your house when you
were a child?

COHEN: We knew it was a holiday - that was all. But, we always had plenty 
of food in our Friday night dinner just like people do now. That was a 
special night. We'd have our chicken and our soup. Not until we moved to 
Wheeling, West Virginia is where we really got into knowing what Judaism 
was. Never went to what they call Cheder. I married very young, which I 
don't regret.

GOLDSMITH: How old were you? Was your husband's background similar to yours?

COHEN: Well, of course, he knew Hebrew. He said that he used to go to Cheder 
and his father would say to him his father was a very, very set man, but a 
religious man and he would tell the rabbi there, "If he makes one mistake, 
give him a clop. So, one time, I don't know what he did, but he was afraid 
to go home, because he knew the rabbi would tell on him. So, he said he 
slept all night under the porch. They were so poor that their meal 
sometimes consisted of pumpernickel and homemade pickles. So, he knew what 
poverty was.

GOLDSMITH: He had a hard life. Did you ever, while you were growing up in
Pittsburgh, encounter any anti-Semitism?

COHEN: No.

GOLDSMITH: How about here in Arizona?

COHEN: In Arizona, well, let's see. In Mesa, the Mormons were against the
Jewish people, of course. But, I have never heard anybody speak an ill word
- we were friends of everybody. They didn't see any difference in us. We
spoke English - we spoke the language which is spoken today. At least, we
never heard anything to our face. There was only one time - there was a
family by the name of Blittman that came from New York. They had five or
six children and he was a taxi driver in New York. His wife had arthritis
very, very bad so the doctor said that they should come out here. They came
out here and, of course, he let them know that he was Jewish and they came
to his house. There were two young boys - I can remember him telling this
story - two young Mormon boys came to him and wanted to convert him to
Mormonism, so he said, "No, I'm Jewish and I will never become a Mormon."
So, they said, "Well, we'll see that you don't get a job." And they said
all over Mesa that he would not join the Mormons and he did not get a job.
So, they went back to New York and went back to driving taxi. I hear from
them occasionally.

GOLDSMITH: What was their last name?

COHEN: Blittman, B-l-i-t-t-m-a-n.

GOLDSMITH: Do you remember his first name?

COHEN: I forget their first name. I remember her - their little boy, their
youngest boy. I heard just recently through someone that had met them
somewhere - it was in New York - that this little Billy died of cancer. He
was their youngest.

GOLDSMITH: In your home when you were growing up, in Pittsburgh, did your 
mother work as well, or did she --

COHEN: No, she was a housekeeper.

GOLDSMITH: With seven children she must have had plenty to do.

COHEN: Oh, plenty of work.

GOLDSMITH: When you got married, did you tell me about your wedding?

COHEN: We had no wedding at all. We were married with a rabbi in his study,
just Dave and I, no witnesses. We were the first couple he ever married. He
should have known you need a witness. our marriage license has no witness,
only the rabbi. He was the witness.

GOLDSMITH: When you met your husband --

COHEN: I met him in Wheeling, the first night, when I was 16 years old. My
father knew a family by the name of Miller and they had a bunch of girls.
So, the night that we came in there we stayed at their house, because the
house that Papa had rented was being painted, everything over, and we were
not able to get in yet. My sister and I went out with the Miller girls
and they said, "We're going to introduce you to the town." We did walk up
town and here was Dave and the two Ruben brothers, one was Abe -- he was
just handsome, rather tall, and Sam was the other one. Well, Sam fell for
my older sister and then I started going out with Abe. I used to go out
regularly with him. Then, when he was coughing so much, my mother and
father said, "No, you can't go with him anymore. We're afraid he might have
TB." So, we quit. He worked with my husband for Marsh's - they made cigars,
stogies, pouch tobacco and everything. They knew each other there. So, we
got together. There was two -- we called them shikstahs(?), they were our
friends -- and they said, "Let's play bridge." And I said, "I don't know
anything about bridge." They said, "Well, we'll come to your house and
we'll teach you." They said, "But, we need the fourth hand." So, I asked
Dave if he would come up and he did. From then on, we just started going
out together.

GOLDSMITH: How long did you go together before you got married?

COHEN: I imagine two or three years, because I was too young to get married
then. But, I was old enough to go out and work. My parents needed the
money. Then, there was no age for children working. of course, I was 16
years old. Now, there Is a law, isn't there, for children - at what age, I
don't know what they start at.

GOLDSMITH: I think you have to go to school til you're 16. Let me ask you
one more question in closing. Do you remember anything special over the
years, anything funny, or anything special, that we haven't talked about?

COHEN: No, I lived here and whatever happened was supposed
to happen. I don't know of anything special. The only thing I remember is
the time that they had that big earthquake in San Francisco, but that has
nothing to do with this. But, we do have bad wind storms, sand storms. But,
nothing special - just I grew up and whatever was happening was supposed to
happen.

GOLDSMITH: I want to thank you for taking the time to talk to me.

COHEN: I guess you don't have very much information.

GOLDSMITH: I have lots of information.

COHEN: Of course, when Toby Kornrich called me up she wanted to know about
the temple because, see, she knew that we were one of the first members.
Her husband is a radiologist and she did work for Babbitt when he was
governor. What she's doing now, I don't know. very sweet and she's a very
intelligent girl.

GOLDSMITH: Let me ask you one more thing. Do you have any old
newspapers or letters or photographs that you might have pertaining to
early days in Arizona?

COHEN: Nothing. I don't have a thing.

GOLDSMITH: What about those days long ago - if you could change
anything, what would you bring back from the old days that you don't have
now?

COHEN: I don't know. I'm happy as it is.

GOLDSMITH: I want to wish you a very happy birthday.

COHEN: Thank you and it was so nice meeting you. If my memory was better 
-- now, if you had come a couple years ago, I probably would have had more 
to tell you.

GOLDSMITH: It was wonderful.

COHEN: Since the death of my nephew - he was a wonderful rabbi. Oh, the big
write-ups about him.

GOLDSMITH: What was his name?

COHEN: Rabbi Henri, r-i, he spelled it "i", instead of a
"y", F-r-o-n-t. His pulpit was in Huntington Beach, California.

		[end of transcript]