..inte:

Otto L. Bendheim

..intr:

Bobbi Kurn

..da:

1994

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..ftxt:



An Interview

with

Otto L. Bendheim

June 23, 1994

Transcriptionist: Carol Ruttan 

Interviewer: Bobbi Kurn

Arizona Jewish Historical Society

Log for

Otto L. Bendheim Interview

Page

1 Grandchildren; wife; parents; grandparents

2 Arrival in America 1934

2- 3 Came to Phoenix 1938

3- 4 Jewish community Herman Lewkowitz

Newmark Diamond

Korrick

6 Superintendent of State Hospital Governor Osborn Sacks

Jeremiah Metzcalf

Rabbi Krohn

7- 8 How Phoenix looked

8- 9 Hospitals in early Phoenix Good Samaritan

St. Joseph's

9 Santa Monica became Memorial Hospital Father Emmett McLoughlin

9-11 Started Camelback Hospital -

now called Wendy Paine O'Brien

11-12 Met wife Joseph/Ruth Bank

12-15 First house/neighborhood in Phoenix Albert Eckstein

16 Adopted son, Joe

17--18 Joined Temple Beth Israel; changed to Beth El Rabbi Tutnauer

18-19 Oldest son's wedding Joel Oseran

21 President/founder of Arizona

Psychiatric Society

President of Intermountain

Psychiatric Society

22 Founded chair at Hebrew University Officer Becker

This is Bobbi Kurn with the Jewish Historical Society. I'm in the office of
Dr. Otto Bendheim. It is June 23, 1994. Thank you for allowing us to come
and interview you.


		Otto Bendheim Interview

BENDHEIM: It's my pleasure.

KURN: First, let's just get some names down on tape. Do you have
grandchildren?

BENDHEIM: Yes.

KURN: And their names are?

BENDHEIM: I have seven, and one coming up. Their names would be Jane and
Nathan in Tucson, Jessica and Daniel in Israel, Logan and Kaleb and the
other little fellow In Iowa - they are my adopted son's children, and one
coming up in New York.

KURN: Are all their last names Bendheim?

BENDHEIM: No. The ones In Iowa, their last name is Warnoc, W-a-r-n-o-c. oh,
and the ones in Tucson are Gregory - my daughter is married to Dr. Gregory.

KURN: Okay. And the names of your children?

BENDHEIM: Vicki Pipher is my oldest daughter.

KURN: How do you spell the ... 

BENDHEIM: P-i-p-h-e-r. Dr. Paul Bendheim in Israel. Margo Gregory in Tucson 
and Fred Bendheim in Brooklyn, New York, and Joe Warnoc - he's not my natural 
son - In Perry, Iowa.

KURN: Great. And your wife's name?

BENDHEIM: Ronnie Newman Bendheim. Her maiden name was Newman, N-e-w-m-a-n.

KURN: And your parents' names?

BENDHEIM: Albert and Frieda. My mother's maiden name was Nathan.

KURN: And your mother's parents?

BENDHEIM: Joseph and Bertha Nathan.

KURN: And your father's parents?

BENDHEIM: Rosa and Lazarus Bendheim.

KURN: Tell us where you were born.

BENDHEIM: In Frankfurt, Germany.

KURN: Okay. And tell me about coming to America, why the family came and
when.

BENDHEIM: I came actually alone - the family came later. had something to
do with Mr. Hitler, that's why. I came early In 1934, one year after Hitler
was elected.

KURN: You were how old?

BENDHEIM: I was born In 1911. In 1934 I was 22, not quite 23.

KURN: And you came by yourself to America.

BENDHEIM: Yes.

KURN: And where did you go when you came?

BENDHEIM: I went to the University of Michigan to continue my education at
the medical school.

KURN: When did your parents come?

BENDHEIM: 1939, just before ____________.

KURN: And from school where did you go?

BENDHEIM: I had my internship and residency at Harvard University in Boston

KURN: And then?

BENDHEIM: Then, in 1938, when I was through with all that, I looked for a
location and I thought I might go west. I had never been west. I got stuck
In Arizona - never earned enough money for the rest of the trip.

KURN: Why did you have this feeling that you wanted to go out West?

BENDHEIM: Why? Go west, young man. I'd never been west and it sounded
romantic and interesting, challenging, progressive. KURN: That was the
reputation of the west?

BENDHEIM: Indians.

KURN: Did you come alone?

BENDHEIM: Yes. I wasn't married yet.

KURN: And your parents?

BENDHEIM: Everybody - my sister, my aunts and cousins, nephews, and
everybody else came after me. They all came to Arizona because I had
pioneered it, you might say. I didn't go any further. Then, I was called
into the army - I volunteered actually - and I was in the army for four
years, in Europe for two years.

KURN: When you first came to Arizona, why did you come particularly to
Arizona?

BENDHEIM: Stupidity. That's it.

KURN: Was there a job waiting for you?

BENDHEIM: I got one at the State Hospital as an assistant psychiatrist.

KURN: But you got that after you moved here?

BENDHEIM: No, actually, I had written to the superintendent and he had
invited me to go.

KURN: Tell me about Phoenix in 1938.

BENDHEIM: A small town, very small town, streetcars. Culturally at the
bottom.

KURN: In what way?

BENDHEIM: We had no symphony, for instance, we had no theaters. The
university in Tempe wasn't a university yet, it was a teacher's college.
Professionally, it was really almost an ___________.. I thought, really, It
was a pioneering situation. I was the first real psychiatrist in town.
There was an old man who called himself a psychiatrist, but he was actually
a general practitioner who did some psychiatry.

KURN: Do you remember his name?

BENDHEIM: Yes.

KURN: What was his name?

BENDHEIM: Kingsley.

KURN: Was there a Jewish community?

BENDHEIM: Well, I think they had the two synagogues, the Beth El and Beth
Israel, but I would hardly call it a community. The Jews were fairly well
off compared to the other part of the population. There was still a 
depression - 1938. But, most of the Jews that I met - I didn't meet all of 
them were extremely money oriented. I was really penniless and so I didn't 
have any dubious pleasure of being invited by the Jews with a few exceptions. 
Herman Lewkowitz was one exception -- did you know him?

KURN: Just by name.

BENDHEIM: His grandson came to visit me just a few days ago. Lewkowitz was
one exception, but all the others didn't consider me as very important,
because I didn't have a few hundred thousand dollars in the bank. For
instance, I never met Mrs. Newmark until much, much later, or the Diamonds,
the Korricks and all those. They've tried to apologize -- apologies not
accepted. I didn't have a swimming pool, I didn't go to what they called
"the Coast" every year. But that's a long time ago.

KURN: But it's interesting for us to get an image of what Phoenix was like
in 1938. These are the kinds of things that we like to have in our archives.

BENDHEIM: Actually, I was much more accepted by the Jewish community in
Tucson. I had a number of patients there, as there were no psychiatrists in
Tucson either. I had some prominent Jewish patients in both towns,
actually, but mainly in Tucson.

KURN: Was there any prejudice against you because you were Jewish?

BENDHEIM: I think the prejudice here in town was by the Jews against the
German Jew. They felt educationally and culturally frightfully inferior to
me - there was this envy

KURN: Were there any organized activities?

BENDHEIM: I don't even remember If they had a big __________. I think they
may have had it. They had the two Jewish congregations that had services. 
Other than that I'm not aware of any. There was no Hadassah that I remember 
in those days - it all came after the war. I don't remember any other Jewish 
organizations. There was no Judaica in Tempe or in Tucson. Academically, the 
universities were not interested - there was no money and no great interest 
in Jewish affairs. There was no Israel.

KURN: Did you observe the holidays?

BENDHEIM: Not after I got married. In Germany you observed them in a very
superficial way. Here, In Arizona, no, I did not. My wife came from a
similar background of not observant in New York and she didn't have any
Jewish education and I had very minimum Jewish education. After we got
married we got into it. The first two or three years we had Christmas
trees. After that we converted to Judaism, you might say, mainly through
Brandeis Institute in California. You have heard of them?

KURN: Yes.

BENDHEIM: They really converted us, and Hitler, too.

KURN: Where did you live when you first came in 1938?

BENDHEIM: It's a funny thing. Some relatives of ours went to the boat and
took me to their home. Their home was outside of Long Island, called
Woodburgh(?), Long Island, a little town. It was across the street from my
wife, who I never met and never knew. She lived across the street from
these relatives.

KURN: And what city was this?

BENDHEIM: Woodburgh(?), Long Island. It's a bedroom community. Isn't that
strange? We never met until we met in the army in 1942.

KURN: When you first came to Phoenix, where did you live?

BENDHEIM: At the State Hospital, they provided housing.

KURN: Where was that located?

BENDHEIM: 24th and Van Buren.

KURN: What was it like around there, was it ...

BENDHEIM: Hot, dusty, primitive. But, I was very happy there, a lot of
patients, a lot of work, interesting work.

KURN: Most of the people that you saw, were they new to Phoenix?

BENDHEIM: There wasn't this tremendous influx that we saw after 1950. No, 
I think most of them were native Arizonans. Today, you talk to people and 
9/10th's of them were born somewhere else. That wasn't that way in those 
days. They were all Democrats, there were no Republicans here - didn't 
exist. There were some nincompoops, like the Rosenzweigs -- they had been 
here awhile.

KURN: Did you have any Jewish patients?

BENDHEIM: Yes. Not that many, but a few. I had no private practice the
first year. All my patients were State Hospital patients.

KURN: Were you considered head of the department?

BENDHEIM: I became superintendent when Governor Osborn was elected. It was
very political in those days. I had nothing to do with politics, but my
predecessor was a fellow by the name of Sacks. He called himself a
Catholic, but in reality he had a Jewish background. He was kicked out and
Dr. Jeremiah Metzcalf of Tucson was made superintendent and he made me
assistant superintendent. When Metzcalf retired, I became superintendent.

KURN: What year would that have been?

BENDHEIM: 1940, or '41, maybe. I remained superintendent until the war
broke out and then I entered the army. Technically, after all these years
I'm still superintendent. I took a leave of absence for the duration and I
think the duration isn't over yet. Have we made a peace treaty with
Germany? Anyway, when I came back in 1946, they wanted me to go back there
and I said, "No, thanks". In the meantime, before '42, or '41, I had a
private practice in addition to still working at the State Hospital, in a
dual capacity. Then I gave up the State Hospital work and started this
private hospital. That's the rest of the story.

KURN: Did you have
difficulty meeting young women when you first came?

BENDHEIM: It was very difficult.

KURN: Did they have any kind of organized social life in Phoenix?

BENDHEIM:
That I wasn't aware of. If there was any such thing I didn't know about it.

KURN: Did we have any rabbis, to your knowledge, when you first came?

BENDHEIM: Yes, they did have, I think, one or two rabbis, but I don't
remember their names. I knew Rabbi Krohn, I got to know him fairly well. I
think he died at this hospital. Then there was another rabbi at the Beth
El, I think.

KURN: Were you happy when you first came?

BENDHEIM: Very happy. Why shouldn't I be?

KURN: How did you say people got around?

BENDHEIM: Streetcars and cars and bicycles, but mainly cars and streetcars.

KURN: And the streets were paved?

BENDHEIM: Very few of them. Where the country club is today, that was out
of town - it was way up north.

KURN: Let's see, the country club is ...

BENDHEIM: 7th Street and Thomas.

KURN: And that was out of town.

BENDHEIM: It may have been incorporated, but It was considered to be out of
town. Anybody who lived up there lived out of town.

KURN: So, what did it look like around where you lived, where the hospital
was?

BENDHEIM: Very few motels, but they were really just huts, just cabins;
streetcar on Van Buren, not much traffic; no hotels, just two hotels - the
Adams downtown and the Westward Ho. Then, of course, the Biltmore existed,
too.

KURN: That was really out of town.

BENDHEIM: That was way out.

KURN: How did they build homes in those days? Brick? Wood?

BENDHEIM: Both.

KURN: Did you feel that people were closer-knit in those days?

BENDHEIM: Yes, I think So. The community was so small. When I came to
Phoenix, I think Phoenix had 65,000 people here - very small town. Tempe
was a village, Scottsdale was non-existent, Mesa was a small community. I
used to go there on consultations to the hospital quite a bit. We had a
hospital in Mesa, then we had Good Samaritan and St. Joe's. St. Joe's was
very small, on 4th Street.

KURN: Where it's located now, on 4th and Thomas?

BENDHEIM: No, 4th, a little north of Van Buren, a very small place. Good
Samaritan was at the same place where it Is now, but a small hospital,
old-fashioned. No, St. Joe's is completely different than it was. But, I
had some interesting experiences there. It has nothing to do with being
Jewish, but a general lack of sophistication and lack of education. I had a
patient who wanted to go to St. Joe's. I had more patients at Good Sam, but
it didn't make any difference to me, so I called St. Joe's and said I had
an emergency admission. The sister, the nun, said, "Sorry, Doctor, we have
no beds available." "But, this is an emergency." "I'm so sorry, we have no
beds." The patient's wife said, "Let me have that telephone, Doctor." She
said, "This is Mrs. Osborn, the governor's wife. I want my husband ... "
"Oh, of course". The doctor didn't say it was the governor." What the hell
difference does it make, it was a sick person, a very sick person. They put
him in the bishop's room.

KURN: I didn't know there was such a thing.

BENDHEIM: That was a nice experience I had. When I applied to the Medical
Society the first time
around they said that they wouldn't admit doctors who didn't have their
full education in the United States. I had a small part of my education in
Germany. I don't know whether that was anti-Semitism or just xenophobia, I
don't know, but it was strange. Then some doctor -- I think maybe he was
Jewish - protested, and I had excellent recommendations from Harvard, and I
became board certified. Then they admitted me, but it took several months.
Today, I would say "go to hell", I wouldn't even apply, but It was
necessary in those days to have hospital privileges. 

KURN: Would you put
some of your patients in other hospitals, other than --

BENDHEIM: Yes. Well, there were only two hospitals - Good Sam and St.
Joe's. Later on there was Santa Monica, which is now a Memorial Hospital on
7th Avenue and Buckeye Road. it was first a Catholic hospital until the
priest who ran it, Father Emmett McLoughlin, was ex- communicated and he
rebelled against the church. Then it was called Memorial Hospital. I had
privileges and lectured there. I used that hospital quite a bit. That was
number three. There was one in Mesa, but that was too far for me, although
I had consultations over there.

KURN: Now, the place where you worked, was that a hospital where patients
slept?

BENDHEIM: The State Hospital, the first year, yes. We had no outpatients,
they were all inpatients. They had all been committed by the courts as
mentally ill and incompetent and were out there. We had 300 or 400
patients. Then I started this hospital. Here we admitted patients with or
without commitment, mainly without commitment. 

KURN: Now, which hospital
did you start?

BENDHEIM: Camelback Hospital. You didn't know?

KURN: No. How did that come about?

BENDHEIM: All my private patients, and I had a considerable number, both
from Tucson and Phoenix and other towns, I had to send to California or 
Texas. We had no hospital here. They didn't want to go to the State 
Hospital, understandably. By that time, in 1950, we had six or eight 
psychiatrists in town - after the war they came in - and they all wanted 
beds. I got them all together and said, "Let's buy one." They didn't want
to take the risk. I really risked my total of fortune and bought this
hospital, And enlarged it very much. We had 14 beds when I bought it and we
got it to 89 beds. Then, more recently, the last 20 years, the hospital
administrators took it over. You know hospital administrators? They're
fools. They have Napoleon complex, but they lack Napoleon's brains. That's
a bad combination. So, this hospital went almost into bankruptcy. it's now
been taken over by Good Sam.

KURN: Really?

BENDHEIM: Oh, yes. This is now Good Samaritan. And then they had six or
eight more that they built, and several of those went defunct. The others
are all now In the Good Samaritan system. This one is no longer called
Camelback Hospital. This is now called Wendy Paine O'Brien. It's really
entirely for adolescents and children.

KURN: Now, what was the address of the Camelback Hospital that you built?

BENDHEIM: Same as this. 5055 North 34th Street. Right here.
Actually, I bought a nursing home. We had some patients in a few small
nursing homes all over town. This one was a dude ranch at first and then a
lady psychiatrist and her husband bought It and, they still didn't have a
hospital license, but they made what they call a sanitarium out of it. I
bought it from them and immediately converted it into a real hospital, with
a hospital license, and enlarged it tremendously. Between Scottsdale and
Phoenix we had more than 400 beds. This one here had only 89 and we were
limited by our loving neighbors and their loving attorney. He won all the
battles with the Phoenix Zoning Commission, except the last one. The last
one they said, "We grant you this one more enlargement, but no more, that's
the last one." And they held us to that. But then we started Scottsdale.
It was fairly successful when all the others were shaky, because there were
too many. So, then I became Medical Director for 25 years and now I'm
Medical Director Emeritus of Camelback Hospital, which no longer exists.

KURN: Tell me how you met your wife.

BENDHEIM: When I got into the army and they stationed me in a general
hospital in El Paso, Texas - William Beaumont General Hospital. I was a
psychiatrist there - one of two or three. My wife became a civilian after a
year of the army as a physical therapist. She also was stationed in El
Paso. She is from New York. That's where we met.

KURN: Did you ever know Dr. Bank here?

BENDHEIM: No. He was very prominent - he was the first gastroenterologist
here.

KURN: What was his first name?

BENDHEIM: Joseph and his wife, Ruth Bank. They were also in El Paso, also
in the same hospital. They gave a picnic and invited my wife, who I didn't
know, and that's how we got to meet. Then we met again in England. I was in
England occasionally and she was in a hospital in London as a physical
therapist. Then she joined the army, too. She was first a civilian employee
- they had a lot of civilians helping the war effort - but then she became
a lieutenant officer In physical therapy. That's how we met.

KURN: It was beshert - it was meant to be.

BENDHEIM: Meant to be, yes.

KURN: Where did you get married?

BENDHEIM: In her parent's home in New York. I had never met her parents. We
had met in England a few times and we had corresponded. After the war she
came to California with a stop in Phoenix. That's how we got engaged. Then,
we had planned to marry later here, but she got pregnant, so we had to
marry earlier.

KURN: So, tell me, when you brought her back to Phoenix

BENDHEIM: I introduced her to my parents. I told my parents, "She's a
Mexican girl" - she's dark-haired, you know -. and they tried to suppress 
their shock, until I told them she's not Mexican, she's a Jewish girl. She's 
not a good Jewish girl - she knew nothing about Judaism, less than I, which 
wasn't much. I would say, one thing I'm proud of, I brought my children up as 
better Jews than I was brought up, and the same is true for her. Although 
three of my children didn't marry Jewish mates, one did.

KURN: Where was your first home when you came here with your wife?

BENDHEIM: The first home - that was right after
the war. My parents had moved here in 1939 and we lived with them for a few
weeks, a few months. Then, we found a little house and bought it. It was on
Amelia Street, a little south of Indian School Road and 24th Street. That
was our first one.

KURN: What did that cost?

BENDHEIM: Something like $12,000. In the first four years of our marriage
we had five children. That was a little fast. I didn't tell you we lost one
daughter. She passed away when she was 22. That house got too small very
fast. Then we bought a larger one In the Central Avenue area on 3rd Street,
north of Glendale Avenue. That got too small and we built where we are now.
We built that 31 years ago and we're still in it.

KURN: Tell me about the house on Amelia.

BENDHEIM: It was very small. It had two bedrooms, it had a swimming pool
but I had to fill it with a garden hose. It was a study for me, but when
our children came so fast the study was converted into another bedroom for
the children. It was very small, very comfortable, no air conditioning just
window coolers

KURN: Swamp coolers?

BENDHEIM: Swamp coolers.

KURN: What did the neighborhood look like?

BENDHEIM: Like a middle class neighborhood looks today, except the houses
were more old-fashioned, and rather cheap construction, too. But we became
good friends with most all of the neighbors. The wives all had children and 
there was a lot of inter-communication.

KURN: People were friendly?

BENDHEIM: Very friendly, except at irrigation time. Then we would have an
occasional battle about the irrigation water. unless you had a sanjero - do
you know what a sanjero is? It's a man who regulates and lets the water in.

KURN: How do you spell that?

BENDHEIM: It's Spanish: S-a-n-j-e-r-o. But, we didn't have a sanjero, so I
did it myself. The neighbors did It themselves. If you turned on the water
too early or shut it off too early, all hell broke loose. They were very
jealous of their water rights. That's the only misunderstanding I ever had
with one neighbor. All the others were very friendly. We had no problems.
It was a nice neighborhood. But the houses were small.

KURN: Mostly non-Jewish people?

BENDHEIM: All non-Jewish.

KURN: Was there a Jewish neighborhood?

BENDHEIM: Not as far as I know. I don't know. I don't believe there was. My
wife did meet some Jewish people. I hadn't met many, but she did. Then, we
had much more of a social life.

KURN: How did she meet them?

BENDHEIM: You better ask her. I had a few friends. My sister - they moved
here because I had moved here. Do you know my sister, Mrs. Eckstein? Her
husband Is a retired physician, Dr. Albert Eckstein. They and their two
sons moved here because I had been here. When he got out of the army he had
no real place to go. He had a residency In internal medicine in New York
and then they had no place to go. They came here.

KURN: So, did your sister introduce you to people?

BENDHEIM: Yes. My brother-in-law is pretty active in Jewish affairs, or he
used to be - he's getting old now. He was active in some Jewish organizations. 
He also sings beautifully. He is Mrs. Newmark's son-in-law's father. I think 
through them, through my sister (my wife and my sister are very close) and I 
think that's how we met some Jewish people - at least I did through them.

KURN: Were there stores in your neighborhood?

BENDHEIM: Very few. There was a barbershop and small grocery store on the
corner and a small drugstore. Yes, there were a few stores. A little
restaurant, but nothing like it is today.

KURN: Do you remember the names of any of those?

BENDHEIM: I know when we had our first daughter, we took her one evening to
the Chinese restaurant and, of course, in those days, it was chop suey and
chow mein, that's all, but it was pretty good. But, she raised hell, she
began to cry and I was so embarrassed, I will never forget this. In the
evenings we took our little daughter In the carriage around the
neighborhood. There were big orange groves - mainly grapefruit - where we
used to steal the grapefruit. There were too many of them, anyhow.
Sometimes, there was hardly space for the baby, because of all the
grapefruit.

KURN: What else would you do for recreation?

BENDHEIM: Every summer we went away. We went north. Then we bought a cabin
In Prescott, beautiful log cabin. we spent many summers there. Usually In
July and August we went to California to the beach.

KURN: San Diego area?

BENDHEIM: San Diego, Santa Monica. But we didn't have a place, then we
bought one. Now, we have a place over there. We spend July, August and
September there.

KURN: Was your wife working?

BENDHEIM: Yes, as a physical therapist.

KURN: When the children were young?

BENDHEIM: Yes. Not when they were very young, but after they went to
school.

KURN: What kind of work did most of your neighbors do?

BENDHEIM: I don't remember. They were middle class people. For us, it was a
lovely home, but it was small and it was not very well constructed. But we
had a wonderful time there.

KURN: Did you build the home?

BENDHEIM: No, the first two homes we didn't build, we bought. The second
one we enlarged - we bought it and enlarged it. Now, the third one where we
live now, we built it 31 years ago.

KURN: How long did you live in the first house?

BENDHEIM: Maybe four years, five years, something like that.

KURN: And where was the second house?

BENDHEIM: On Third Street north of Glendale Avenue.

KURN: So that's where your children went to school?

BENDHEIM: Yes.

KURN: You lived there how long?

BENDHEIM: 'Til the seams split. I don't know how long. We moved into this
one in 1962, '61. How long did we live there? Maybe eight years or so. It
was a nice home in a citrus grove, very lovely. But it got too small.

KURN: Was it built up or was that pretty open land?

BENDHEIM: There were large lots. It was built up to the extent of one house
per acre. We had very nice neighbors.

KURN: How did it differ, other than size, from your first house?

BENDHEIM: Everything was much more advanced, much more expensive and
luxurious home. In the first house we had one bathroom and now we have
four. The second one had about three bathrooms.

KURN: And air conditioning?

BENDHEIM: Yes.

KURN: Where did the children go to school?

BENDHEIM: First, to Simis, which is part of the - what do they call that
district?

KURN: Madison.

BENDHEIM: Madison District - Simis. Then, when we moved here they went to,
in high school, Phoenix Country Day School. Quite a few of them we sent
east, to prep schools. Both boys went to a very fine prep school and two of
the girls. So, we had them away from here for further education.

KURN: Were the boys bar mitzvahed?

BENDHEIM: Oh, yes. I was too, In Germany, but it was a fake bar mitzvah. I
didn't read anything. They called it out in Latin script - it was fake. I
didn't know anything, but I was bar mitzvahed. My wife was not ever bat
mitzvahed, but the two boys were bar mitzvahed. Our third boy, Joe, he's
not even Jewish.

KURN: The one you adopted and took in?

BENDHEIM: Yes. I'm the godfather. That's a good story. When his first
little boy was born -- he left us when he got married, he was with us for 
seven years. I hired him for two months while we were in California to look 
after the house. out of the two months came seven years. He became a son to 
us. I love him dearly. When he got married - he got married to an Italian, 
Catholic girl. He has no religion, nothing, but she wanted the little boy 
baptized. So, on Easter Sunday, she asked me if I would do them the honor 
to go to church with them to have the boy baptized, and I said it's my 
pleasure. so, on Easter Sunday, they had the Easter services and after that 
there was a big baptism, about 40 babies. ours was the oldest, he was 
already three months old. I had him In my arms and the priest goes from one 
to the other and he baptizes in the name of the father, the son and the holy 
spirit. Everything was fine and he comes to me and he says, "I assume you're 
the grandfather." I said, "No, I'm the godfather." "Oh, that's wonderful," 
he said, "Those are his parents?" "Yes, those are his parents." He says, 
"Well, you know your duties as a godfather, do you?" I said, "I believe I 
do." He says, "Well, to make sure, your duty is to make sure that these 
parents raise this boy in the true church. Will you promise that?" I said, 
"Yes." Little did he know. And he's named after me, my middle name, Lazarus.

KURN: What temple did you join?

BENDHEIM: Beth Israel first. Then we changed to Beth El, because we felt
that the education was not to our liking that they got at Beth Israel. So,
we've been a member of Beth Israel, but became good Jews - or what I would
consider better Jews - by our going frequently to California to Brandeis.
Have you ever been there?

KURN: Yes.

BENDHEIM: Did you go into their weekends, too?

KURN: Yes.

BENDHEIM: We never met you there. Oh, you came after. It's a nice place.
it's burned down, part of it.

KURN: Yes. What was Temple Beth Israel like when you first joined?

BENDHEIM: It was at a different location. It was on Culver and 2nd Street
or 1st Street. It's now a church, that little building. I didn't like it. I
didn't like the rabbis, I didn't like the congregation. I think they were
stuck-up; I think they were all money oriented. Not that I like Beth El
that much. My wife goes to another temple now, to that Spirit of the
Desert. Do you go there?

KURN: No.

BENDHEIM: I've been there with her, but I don't go much. My wife is active;
she goes to Talmud studies every week and she goes to Jewish meditation

KURN: You didn't feel that the temple welcomed you?

BENDHEIM: Not particularly. It may have been my attitude. For instance, the
Newmarks, who were big ___________, I never met them until after they
married into my family.

KURN: This was at Beth Israel?

BENDHEIM: I think so, or Beth El, I don't know.

KURN: The children, they started Sunday school at Beth Israel?

BENDHEIM: Yes, they did. of course, you know they were out of town by the
time they went to highschool, most of them, and they didn't have that much
Jewish education, but the one that had the least became the best Jew. He
married an Israeli girl. My son is an M.D., but he doesn't practice
medicine. He's a pretty good Jew. He loves Israel.

KURN: Describe that little Temple Beth Israel, the first temple. What did
it look like?

BENDHEIM: Pretty primitive. Folding chairs and a bima there, up front.
There wasn't much to it. You can still see it, I think, it's kind of a 
church.

KURN: Card chairs or ... ?

BENDHEIM: No, no, I think they had -- I don't remember. I wasn't there that
much.

KURN: How many people would it hold?

BENDHEIM: Maybe 120, maybe 150.

KURN: Do you know how many members they had?

BENDHEIM: I have no idea. Mrs. Newmark can tell you all of that.
She keeps her nose in all those things. Her daughter, by the way, my niece,
she is running the Jewish News. Did you know that? She's a nice girl, I
like her a lot.

KURN: Then you moved with Temple Beth Israel when they moved to Osborn?

BENDHEIM: Yes, because we had a bar mitzvah or so in the Osborn temple.
Yes, we did move with them, but then we left and went to the other one. Oh,
I tell you one reason we left. I like this rabbi so much.

KURN: Rabbi Tutnauer?

BENDHEIM: Tutnauer, yes. We see him in Israel. We had a wedding
in Israel, my oldest son was married there and Rabbi Tutnauer was present.
My son wanted a very good friend of his to officiate as rabbi and marry him
and his wife. He's from here, too. Do you know him? Oseran, Joel Oseran.
We are somewhat responsible for him being a rabbi. We took him to Brandeis
and that's how he became such a good Jew. Well, the great authorities in
Israel wouldn't let Rabbi Oseran marry my son, because he's not Orthodox
enough, so we had to see some Orthodox rabbis here to prove that my son is
Jewish. We had to prove that. I said, "If it's really necessary I can take
down my pants, but I don't think you would like that." They didn't request
that. But, they did ask for the Jewish names for all our ancestors and we
had to say that they weren't divorced, which was true. But it was very
funny, and one rabbi wasn't enough. one rabbi called another rabbi in -
just to interview me and my wife. And after it was all over I was told it
isn't even important, because I don't make my son Jewish, his mother does.
So, my Interview was truly unnecessary, but hers was necessary. Anyway, he
was admitted, but then, In Israel, Oseran was on the bima and gave the
___________ , but he couldn't marry them officially. The official rabbi was
an Orthodox rabbi. It's very Interesting. The bride appeared with a veil.
Do you know why? Because, I say that somebody was cheated, he got the wrong
woman. He didn't look her over carefully enough. The next morning when it
was light again he says I didn't want to marry that woman, I wanted to
marry her sister. Do you know that story? For that reason, the bride
appears in a veil. Did you know all that? Did you have a Jewish education?

KURN: Yes.

BENDHEIM: Where?

KURN: Beth Israel and then Beth El.

BENDHEIM: Oh, here in this town?

KURN: Yes. Emanuel in Tucson.

BENDHEIM: You also are a member of Beth El?

KURN: Yes.

BENDHEIM: You left Beth Israel, too?

KURN: Yes.

BENDHEIM: Same reason?

KURN: Yes. It's a good reason. The children growing up here --

BENDHEIM: None of them are Jewish. They are Jewish, I mean,
except for my daughter. The others are nominally Jewish. Fred, in Brooklyn,
he's our youngest son, an artist, he also married a non-Jewish woman. I
think they keep holidays and Friday nights with candles and that sort of
thing, but the others, no. The one in Tucson, she's married to a doctor,
Dr. Gregory. He's an atheist, I might add, but he's a better Jew than she
is. He has Friday night candles and a seder he gives, but he's not Jewish.

KURN: Did the children ever do any Jewish things, like belong to the Jewish
Community Center or any of the B'nai B'rith groups in Phoenix? Maybe they
didn't have it then, when they were growing up? Was there a temple youth
group or a Beth El group?

BENDHEIM: But they were out of town so much, you see.

KURN: In high school?

BENDHEIM: Yes, in high school. None of our children attended high school
more than a year or two in Phoenix. They all went off. And Joe isn't Jewish
at all, you know, he's a Protestant by origin, but his wife's Catholic. I
can't answer these. Not counting Joe who never was Jewish, but of our other
four living children, only one has a Jewish mate, and he's In Israel. Are
your children married to Jewish mates? You're too young yet.

KURN: Our son is married to a Jewish girl. The girls are not married. And I
pray.

BENDHEIM: It doesn't make that much difference. We're all human beings. To
me, it's not so important. My wife, I think, takes it more seriously.

KURN: It's interesting to hear about Phoenix back in the 30's, 40's, 50's.

BENDHEIM: In the 50's Phoenix had to boom, go very fast - too fast. All
these subdivisions going up, you know.

KURN: Did you like it the old way better?

BENDHEIM: No. I wasn't dissatisfied, but it wasn't diversified enough.
There wasn't enough stimulation. I like concerts and theatre, museums. My
wife's very active in the art world. She's a potter, you know. She used to
be a physical therapist, that's her profession, but she gave that up when
our daughter died in 1974. Since that time, and even before, she's been a
ceramicist. We have a bunch of kilns, our house looks like a factory,
outside at least. She has a whole bunch of kilns.

KURN: What organizations were you in growing up in Phoenix?

BENDHEIM: I didn't grow up here. I was already here. I think only the
synagogue and the medical societies, of course, but no other. I'm not a
club man.

KURN: Were you ever president?

BENDHEIM: Yes, of the Arizona Psychiatric Society and the Inter-mountain
Psychiatric Society. I was founder and president of those two.

KURN: Say them again.

BENDHEIM: The Arizona Psychiatric Society - I was its first president and
helped found it. Before that we had an Inter-mountain Psychiatric Society
of six or eight mountain states, including Utah and Colorado. I was
president, not founding president, but president of that. But I didn't
enjoy that particularly. I don't like club work, organizational work. It's
not my cup of tea.

KURN: But I'm sure you added a lot to those organizations.

BENDHEIM: Don't lie.

KURN: You had a lot of experience to give to it.

BENDHEIM: Is your husband active in Jewish affairs?

KURN: A little bit.

BENDHEIM: What kind?

KURN: Jewish Federation.

BENDHEIM: We belong to that, but I've never been there. My wife persuaded
and coerced me to give a tremendous amount of money to the Federation -
close to a half a million dollars.

KURN: She's a good solicitor.

BENDHEIM: Not only that, she has a very soft heart. She's very charitable.

KURN: Why did she feel that was important?

BENDHEIM: Well, we've given so much to other organizations - the Hebrew
University. My son is now at Weizmann.
We've never given much to Weizmann. I don't feel bad about it. We do
anything we can for the Hebrew University. We founded a chair there. So,
that is my Jewish contribution. We founded a chair of microbiology In
Jerusalem, gave a lot of money. And now a lot of money to the Jewish
Federation - I don't know what they're going to do with it. But the money
we give to the Federation won't come to them until the second of us dies.
That's the only little satisfaction I get. But what they do with it, I have
no idea. She's very charitable. She doesn't want to leave much to the 
children, she wants to give it to charity, which is fine with me. We took care 
of the children, gave them an education. We bought the farm in Iowa for our
adopted son. my son, Paul, in Israel - I don't know If you knew that, but
Israel has a terrible real estate situation. It's so expensive in the nicer
neighborhoods - terribly expensive! so, we bought him a house. He couldn't
afford it with as little as he makes as a researcher. Now, that I'm proud
of. He gave up $100,000 job in New York, plus a lot of fringe benefits, for
a $15,000 job in Israel. Can you Imagine? It's hard to imagine. But, he did
and I'm proud of him.

KURN: Well, the money will go to good use.

BENDHEIM: I'm sure. We're very friendly with the professor who holds this
chair we gave in Jerusalem - Officer Becker. He comes here occasionally. I
do quite a bit of work with juveniles now over the last couple of years.
You know, most of my referral sources - the older doctors and my old
friends - they're dead or retired. I'm the oldest SOB who still hangs
around.

KURN: And you're still practicing.

BENDHEIM: Of course, I just started. I told you I started in '38 and never
gave it up. I'm enjoying it.

KURN: You're working full time?

BENDHEIM: Now, for instance, today I didn't get to the office until 10:00.
I don't call that full time. I used to be here at 7:00. Now It's 9:30,
10:00. But I'm enjoying what I'm doing. My brother-in-law has given it up
completely. He doesn't practice anymore - Dr. Eckstein. It's a shame. He
got sick after that. Who's your cardiologist? Schumacher?

KURN: Yes.

BENDHEIM: He's mine, too. A nice guy.

KURN: It was Lee Ehrlich.

BENDHEIM: Doesn't he practice anymore?

KURN: No.

BENDHEIM: He's retired? Really? He's not that old. But he was younger than
Joe Ehrlich

KURN: Right. It's a good office. May you and I stay well and not need
them.

BENDHEIM: I see Dr. Schumacher once a year. I like him a lot. I
shifted from that Indian I had - Shirah Shrihah, whatever his name is. He's
very good, too, but I didn't like him. He's a very good doctor. So, I went
to Schumacher in the same office.

KURN: Is there anything else you'd like to tell the Jewish Historical
Society?

BENDHEIM: I'm not a good communicator.

KURN: I think you've done very well. We'll enjoy having these thoughts

BENDHEIM: You put it all in writing?

KURN: Yes.

BENDHEIM: It's embarrassing. It's not going to be published?

KURN: No.

BENDHEIM: I asked my wife - I told her you were coming - I asked her if I
should put on a jacket. She said yes, she may take pictures or something. I
said oh, forget about it, so I have no jacket on.

KURN: We did that for awhile, but we stopped doing It. I think it's a good
idea. I would also like to videotape people being Interviewed, but people
are uncomfortable about that.

BENDHEIM: We are good Jews in other respects. We are furthering our
education. We Just came back from France three weeks ago, where we had a Jewish tour
of France with Professor Chanin from Tucson, he and his wife. Do you know
Mildred? There were 40 Jewish people from all over the nation, but mainly
from Phoenix and Tucson, a lot from New York and New Jersey. It was very
lovely.

We went on a cruise through the Caribbean about the Conversos, the Jews who
fled Spain, or West Germany out of Spain and then many of them settled in
the Caribbean in these islands. We followed their traces. It was very
interesting. We did that last year. So, we're pretty good Jews. 

KURN: Sounds like it.  No doubt about it.

BENDHEIM: Thank you for spending so much time with an unworthy subject.

KURN:  We thought it was worthy.

[End of interview.]