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PS = Pam Stevenson - Agave Productions
SG = Sam Goddard
PS (Interviewer): Uh, the picture I was thinking of though was in his office, I think. And Carl Hayden was there?
SG (S. Goddard): Oh, yeah. Well, yes, we went over to, uh, (laughs) - it's not repeatable, all of it. But, uh, Carl Hayden, he was really the head of Finance in the government at that time and we went over to the President, uh, in his block-long limousine and, uh, (laughs) we, we stopped and he, he thought Senator Hayden was holding on him or something and he said, 'you old man, you let go.' And, uh, you know, those things should not really come out. But, uh, politicians are very human. And, uh, I remember, uh, Hayden had an innocent look that was just incredible and he said, 'why Lyndon, you're putting me on.' And, uh, uh, he was a, a very tough hard-bargaining, uh, member of the, of the government at that time. And, uh, Johnson thought he was holding up some of his projects. So when they got together they had quite a, a free-swinging time. And, most of which, I, I can't repeat because it was not exactly the kind of language you hear on the street. Or maybe it is.
PS (Interviewer): Even though they were both Democrats and, you know, should have been on the same side of things I would think.
SG (S. Goddard): Well, it depended on what they wanted at the time and, uh, apparently the President wanted something that Senator Hayden was holding up. And Senator Hayden wanted him to support the, uh, Central Arizona Project. And it ended up that, uh, that's what they both got.
But like politicians are like everybody else, they have their own projects and - I mean it isn't Democrat or Republican ideas, it's, it's specifics. And, uh, I, I, you know, the Democrats and the Republicans have very often changed sides on a complete issue so that they end up supporting what the other side wanted originally. It, it's interesting, but Senator Hayden was a very powerful politician. Although he looked like a very meek and, and unassuming person. He had a very tough, uh, administrator named Roy Ellison, who later came out here and tried to run but it didn't work at all. But Ellison was the guy you had to deal with.